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oldman9er
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 43427
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 Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| PapaShogun wrote: | | Little did we know Beathard would go on to win the 2017 MVP after taking over for Hoyer and Barkley due to injuries in week 2. Amassing 4500 passing yards, 40 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions. |
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y2lamanaki
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 13979
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Forge wrote: | | 757-NINER wrote: | | I would have had no problem with this pick if we didn't trade back up in the 3rd. If that's Shanny's developmental guy of choice, so be it. But you can't tell me that they needed to jump the line. He would have still been sitting there in 4th...probably with our second pick in that round, no less. |
That's what I'm thinking. I have less of an issue with the pick because i believe its independent of the others since I'm sure thst this is 100% shanny with minimal input elsewhere. |
Trust in Shanny!
But I, too, don't think it was necessary this early. I really would have felt the same about any QB, though, so I suppose my thoughts are extremely biased.
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Future Hall of Famer Frank Gore's Career Rushing List Tracker:
*Currently Ranked 8th All-Time
*Yards needed to pass #7 Eric Dickerson: 194
*Yards needed to pass #6 Jerome Bettis: 597 |
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big9erfan
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19733
Location: El Dorado Hills
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I graded our other three picks, but right from the start i'm just giving this one an incomplete until we see what shanahan can get out of him.
I crticized baalke a lot for making unnecessary tradeups for guys like garnett. So it might seem like i wouldn't like this move. But not so. In the first place unlike trent giving up high or relativdly high picks, we gave up a 7th. I often suggested that baalke should use thosec relatively useless picks to move up. So i love that lynch did that. Also, a QB is always a special case. They're just so important that if shanny liked this guy best and was worfied he"d get away than yhe price of a 7th was just fine with me.
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Forge
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| big9erfan wrote: | I graded our other three picks, but right from the start i'm just giving this one an incomplete until we see what shanahan can get out of him.
I crticized baalke a lot for making unnecessary tradeups for guys like garnett. So it might seem like i wouldn't like this move. But not so. In the first place unlike trent giving up high or relativdly high picks, we gave up a 7th. I often suggested that baalke should use thosec relatively useless picks to move up. So i love that lynch did that. Also, a QB is always a special case. They're just so important that if shanny liked this guy best and was worfied he"d get away than yhe price of a 7th was just fine with me. |
You "criticized" the Witherspoon pick because you weren't sure we got the best available cornerback on the board, but with the quarterback who was very clearly a reach and not the best available, you're not going to grade until you see what Shanahan can get out of him? 
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GANNDMK
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Obviously this was a Shanahan pick and no one knows more about quarterbacks than Kyle. I think I support him on this one, maybe this kid was known around the league as a great prospect but the publications missed it. To date John and Kyle have shown nothing but professionalism and good taste. I'm buying in. |
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Forge
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| GANNDMK wrote: | | Obviously this was a Shanahan pick and no one knows more about quarterbacks than Kyle. I think I support him on this one, maybe this kid was known around the league as a great prospect but the publications missed it. To date John and Kyle have shown nothing but professionalism and good taste. I'm buying in. |
I'm sure you don't know as much about corners as Saleh or Hafley. You still knocked that pick for maybe not being the best available corner. Also, what do professionalism and good taste have to do with anything?
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Stupid NFL coaches and their need to reach for quarterbacks.... |
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y2lamanaki
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 13979
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Forge wrote: | | big9erfan wrote: | I graded our other three picks, but right from the start i'm just giving this one an incomplete until we see what shanahan can get out of him.
I crticized baalke a lot for making unnecessary tradeups for guys like garnett. So it might seem like i wouldn't like this move. But not so. In the first place unlike trent giving up high or relativdly high picks, we gave up a 7th. I often suggested that baalke should use thosec relatively useless picks to move up. So i love that lynch did that. Also, a QB is always a special case. They're just so important that if shanny liked this guy best and was worfied he"d get away than yhe price of a 7th was just fine with me. |
You "criticized" the Witherspoon pick because you weren't sure we got the best available cornerback on the board, but with the quarterback who was very clearly a reach and not the best available, you're not going to grade until you see what Shanahan can get out of him? |
Well...because it's a QB, because that's Shanny's masterpiece and he's our coach from some time (and has had excellent past success with QBs), and because the rest of the QBs I would rate in the fifth or further back...I can get leaving this one incomplete, because Shanahan seems to see the skills he loves in a QB in Beathard. I don't agree - I think Witherspoon was a great choice for the role he'll play. But I can see why those two picks can be judged in different lights.
I'd just have preferred to wait, myself, but I can see where big is coming from on these two.
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Future Hall of Famer Frank Gore's Career Rushing List Tracker:
*Currently Ranked 8th All-Time
*Yards needed to pass #7 Eric Dickerson: 194
*Yards needed to pass #6 Jerome Bettis: 597 |
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Aussie9er
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 128
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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We had to make one bad pick this draft glad its for kyle's developement qb.
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GANNDMK
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Forge wrote: | | GANNDMK wrote: | | Obviously this was a Shanahan pick and no one knows more about quarterbacks than Kyle. I think I support him on this one, maybe this kid was known around the league as a great prospect but the publications missed it. To date John and Kyle have shown nothing but professionalism and good taste. I'm buying in. |
I'm sure you don't know as much about corners as Saleh or Hafley. You still knocked that pick for maybe not being the best available corner. Also, what do professionalism and good taste have to do with anything? |
I did not knock Witherspoon, he was another favorite of mine. In fact I called the pick, check out my draft. |
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Forge
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| GANNDMK wrote: | | Forge wrote: | | GANNDMK wrote: | | Obviously this was a Shanahan pick and no one knows more about quarterbacks than Kyle. I think I support him on this one, maybe this kid was known around the league as a great prospect but the publications missed it. To date John and Kyle have shown nothing but professionalism and good taste. I'm buying in. |
I'm sure you don't know as much about corners as Saleh or Hafley. You still knocked that pick for maybe not being the best available corner. Also, what do professionalism and good taste have to do with anything? |
I did not knock Witherspoon, he was another favorite of mine. In fact I called the pick, check out my draft. |
This was my bad - for some reason, I thought Big posted that and was responding to him as part of the my retort to his post earlier. The post I was referring to about knocking the Witherspoon pick was his, not yours. have no idea why I read your name as big's lol
My apologies GANNDMK
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Stupid NFL coaches and their need to reach for quarterbacks.... |
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GANNDMK
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Forge wrote: | | GANNDMK wrote: | | Forge wrote: | | GANNDMK wrote: | | Obviously this was a Shanahan pick and no one knows more about quarterbacks than Kyle. I think I support him on this one, maybe this kid was known around the league as a great prospect but the publications missed it. To date John and Kyle have shown nothing but professionalism and good taste. I'm buying in. |
I'm sure you don't know as much about corners as Saleh or Hafley. You still knocked that pick for maybe not being the best available corner. Also, what do professionalism and good taste have to do with anything? |
I did not knock Witherspoon, he was another favorite of mine. In fact I called the pick, check out my draft. |
This was my bad - for some reason, I thought Big posted that and was responding to him as part of the my retort to his post earlier. The post I was referring to about knocking the Witherspoon pick was his, not yours. have no idea why I read your name as big's lol
My apologies GANNDMK |
No problem Bro. |
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Pandomonium
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3149
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 757-NINER wrote: | | I would have had no problem with this pick if we didn't trade back up in the 3rd. If that's Shanny's developmental guy of choice, so be it. But you can't tell me that they needed to jump the line. He would have still been sitting there in 4th...probably with our second pick in that round, no less. |
this is my issue
I totally agree with this
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y2lamanaki
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 13979
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Pandomonium wrote: | | 757-NINER wrote: | | I would have had no problem with this pick if we didn't trade back up in the 3rd. If that's Shanny's developmental guy of choice, so be it. But you can't tell me that they needed to jump the line. He would have still been sitting there in 4th...probably with our second pick in that round, no less. |
this is my issue
I totally agree with this |
Eh - we gave up a useless 7th to do it. I don't have any problem with that part. I don't like the player or the position and feel we could have waited, and maybe even got him in a later round. But the trade itself is of no concern to me as we didn't really lose anything to get a guy we clearly wanted.
Even if we stayed at our 4th and selected Beathard, I'd have the same overall feeling about it.
But - Shanahan sees what he wants in him, and I'm willing to wait and see.
_________________
Future Hall of Famer Frank Gore's Career Rushing List Tracker:
*Currently Ranked 8th All-Time
*Yards needed to pass #7 Eric Dickerson: 194
*Yards needed to pass #6 Jerome Bettis: 597 |
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NINERFAN_4_LIFE
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 12943
Location: THE GOLD MINE
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:59 am Post subject: |
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The more I look at this, the more I love this pick. Maybe Im just drinking the coolaid, but I think we have something here.
first of all, that release is crazy fast. Like billy the kid, fastest gun in the west kinda fast. holy hell. there is no wasted motion whatsoever, which makes it very repeatable and therefore accurate. Id love to see the pitch clock on this guy compared to drew brees and tom brady, it really is spectacular.
Seems like he has above average anticipation and ball placement. these are really important qualities to have as an NFL QB and when you have both of those as well as a strong arm and a quick release you could potentially have dynamite.
He has some Big Ben in him. Maybe its just that they both wore yellow and black, but the fact he has played through multiple injuries shows he has heart. I also like how he delivers the ball with the heat bearing down on him.
He has a good base and drives the ball with his hips. its how you would teach a little kid how to throw a football.
seems like Iowa ran a lot of west coast concepts, so it shouldnt be too hard for him to pick up the playbook. Seems like every Iowa fan is happy their OC is no longer with them.
Are there holes in his game? Absolutely. It seems like its all stuff that is correctable though. you cant teach what this kid has. when a guy is hurt, throwing to below average targets and has an OC who is unimaginative and he still succeeds, you have to feel good about it. He got it done with less than stellar supporting cast. that is a key point in my book.
Are people seriously complaining about trading a 7th to move up to get him? Or that we took him in the third? Its like Adam peters said the day of the draft "If thats the guy you want, who cares what the points say, just go get the guy you want".
Just a tidbit, not that it means much. Y2 pointed out before we fired chip that the only (other) time in NFL history that a team fired their HC three years in a row, the next coach they hired was Bill Walsh. The very first year Bill had the job he drafted a QB in the third round... named Joe Montana.
"those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it"
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Forge
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote: |
Just a tidbit, not that it means much. Y2 pointed out before we fired chip that the only (other) time in NFL history that a team fired their HC three years in a row, the next coach they hired was Bill Walsh. The very first year Bill had the job he drafted a QB in the third round... named Joe Montana.
"those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it" |
Wait, now I'm confused. SInce you have told us this history, and we know it, are we going to avoid repeating it? Because I'd like to repeat Walsh and Montana 
Also, I disagree with a lot of what you said, but at this point, it's done with, and we all just want the kid to succeed, so not much point in debating that. He's can absolutely turn into something, especially with Shanny. I'm not counting on it, but I'm certainly not ruling it out. I mean, we only have to look at what happened with Kirk Cousins - most pegged him as a steady back up type and look at him now. Cousins had a much better feel for the game and was a much more accurate passer (one of the things we disagree with - Beathard is not accurate, nor does he have great ball placement in my opinion), so I don't think Beathard has that type of ceiling, but again, most saw Cousins as a back up type and it was little Shanny who pounded the table to draft him even though they had given up a ton in the RG3 trade.
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Stupid NFL coaches and their need to reach for quarterbacks.... |
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