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Pick #56 - Obi Melifonwu (S)
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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Posts: 5148
Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlieberum1985 wrote:
raiderrocker18 wrote:
he plays nothing like a linebacker. he's a free safety who has the ability to play man to man when situations call for it. and yes size wise he's ideal to defend TE's. he has kam chancellor's frame but they play nothing alike


strong safety that can play box or deep. i believe joseph better off at free safety over nelson and melifonwu can mix it up depending which formation the offense running
with his size, yes strong safety is ideal. but watch him play, and you dont see a strong safety. you see a free safety. his coverage and range are his best assets, not his physicality or run support. he doesn't look particularly good in the box. again, i know, when you see 6'4, 225 as the numbers, you think box safety. i'm just saying, go watch him play.

between the two of them, karl joseph is the much more physical player and harder hitter

all the talk of Obi being some quasi-linebacker is based on his measurables, and not at all based on his tape/play
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5255
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Obi and KJo switching back and forth between FS/SS. The cool thing is they can both play both positions. I see Obi playing more FS and KJo more SS though.

We are going to have one heck of a versatile secondary. Obi can play either S spot, Outside CB, and I think we could use him at LB on obvious passing situations to cover TEs.

KJo can play either S spot and Nickel corner.

Conley can play both outside and nickel corner.

Carrie is not starter material even at nickel but he is depth at Outside CB, Nickel, FS, and SS. A swiss army knife backup guy.

Could be Smith and Nelsons last year with their lack of versatility.
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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Posts: 5148
Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the combined versatility of Joseph/Obi will let them be used very creatively. In situations where Obi needs to play man (usually against a TE or big receiver), Joseph can play single high in a pinch.

i remember when mike huff was our FS, he would switch and play man quite a bit. that's a role obi can fill quite well
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Mr Raider


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 1869
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raiderrocker18 wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
raiderrocker18 wrote:
he plays nothing like a linebacker. he's a free safety who has the ability to play man to man when situations call for it. and yes size wise he's ideal to defend TE's. he has kam chancellor's frame but they play nothing alike


strong safety that can play box or deep. i believe joseph better off at free safety over nelson and melifonwu can mix it up depending which formation the offense running
with his size, yes strong safety is ideal. but watch him play, and you dont see a strong safety. you see a free safety. his coverage and range are his best assets, not his physicality or run support. he doesn't look particularly good in the box. again, i know, when you see 6'4, 225 as the numbers, you think box safety. i'm just saying, go watch him play.

between the two of them, karl joseph is the much more physical player and harder hitter

all the talk of Obi being some quasi-linebacker is based on his measurables, and not at all based on his tape/play


He's not playing LB in the base, that much is certain. But in the nickel we could certainly put him out there with Joseph and Nelson. Now you could just call that a 3 safety look, but I could still see those three plus James (who I think people have wrote off even though he showed a lot of good qualities as a raw, 6th round rookie) or Riley as the only real LB. He is capable of doing that and matching up with a back, TE, or even playing the nickel. With our offense we should be putting points up a lot and forcing teams into passing situations, and the staff clearly thinks so too as we made the defensive backfield as priority. With Amerson, Conley, Smith, Carrie, Joseph, Nelson, and Obi we have the ability to do a lot of different and creative things. Our defense is likely going to be based on versatility in the front and back end, and hopefully forcing turnovers. We have and defense full of guys that we hope are able to do a lot of different things. Mack can play DE or LB, same with Irvin and Aldon, Edwards can play DE or DT same with Ward and Autry. Carrie and Obi can play corner or safety. Joseph can play in the box or free. We have a ton of options on where we can put guys. It's ultimately going to come down to how well they progress. Could backfire if you think these guys are all jack of all trades masters of none. Or could make us really difficult to match up with.
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Raider wrote:
He's not playing LB in the base, that much is certain. But in the nickel we could certainly put him out there with Joseph and Nelson. Now you could just call that a 3 safety look, but I could still see those three plus James (who I think people have wrote off even though he showed a lot of good qualities as a raw, 6th round rookie) or Riley as the only real LB.

I'd probably just call it dime with Obi in place of one of the linebackers. In nickel, a defensive lineman typically comes out and both inside linebackers stay in. I like Obi playing closer to the box as almost a 4th linebacker similar to Kam Chancellor. From what I've observed, his most natural spots are box safety or deep middle safety - which is pretty rare.
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Mr Raider


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
Mr Raider wrote:
He's not playing LB in the base, that much is certain. But in the nickel we could certainly put him out there with Joseph and Nelson. Now you could just call that a 3 safety look, but I could still see those three plus James (who I think people have wrote off even though he showed a lot of good qualities as a raw, 6th round rookie) or Riley as the only real LB.

I'd probably just call it dime with Obi in place of one of the linebackers. In nickel, a defensive lineman typically comes out and both inside linebackers stay in. I like Obi playing closer to the box as almost a 4th linebacker similar to Kam Chancellor. From what I've observed, his most natural spots are box safety or deep middle safety - which is pretty rare.


I mean I get what you're saying overall and I agree, but typically it's the strong side LB that comes off the field in nickel in place of a DB... Yeah DTS might come off and be replaced with a better pass rusher, but there's still typically four down linemen in the nickel. Right?
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Raider wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
Mr Raider wrote:
He's not playing LB in the base, that much is certain. But in the nickel we could certainly put him out there with Joseph and Nelson. Now you could just call that a 3 safety look, but I could still see those three plus James (who I think people have wrote off even though he showed a lot of good qualities as a raw, 6th round rookie) or Riley as the only real LB.

I'd probably just call it dime with Obi in place of one of the linebackers. In nickel, a defensive lineman typically comes out and both inside linebackers stay in. I like Obi playing closer to the box as almost a 4th linebacker similar to Kam Chancellor. From what I've observed, his most natural spots are box safety or deep middle safety - which is pretty rare.


I mean I get what you're saying overall and I agree, but typically it's the strong side LB that comes off the field in nickel in place of a DB... Yeah DTS might come off and be replaced with a better pass rusher, but there's still typically four down linemen in the nickel. Right?


It depends on the team and the situation. For us, normally our NT comes off and Irvin (SLB) becomes the 4th down linemen. But we vary that as well.
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jlieberum1985


Joined: 19 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Mr Raider wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
Mr Raider wrote:
He's not playing LB in the base, that much is certain. But in the nickel we could certainly put him out there with Joseph and Nelson. Now you could just call that a 3 safety look, but I could still see those three plus James (who I think people have wrote off even though he showed a lot of good qualities as a raw, 6th round rookie) or Riley as the only real LB.

I'd probably just call it dime with Obi in place of one of the linebackers. In nickel, a defensive lineman typically comes out and both inside linebackers stay in. I like Obi playing closer to the box as almost a 4th linebacker similar to Kam Chancellor. From what I've observed, his most natural spots are box safety or deep middle safety - which is pretty rare.


I mean I get what you're saying overall and I agree, but typically it's the strong side LB that comes off the field in nickel in place of a DB... Yeah DTS might come off and be replaced with a better pass rusher, but there's still typically four down linemen in the nickel. Right?


It depends on the team and the situation. For us, normally our NT comes off and Irvin (SLB) becomes the 4th down linemen. But we vary that as well.


nt? the one with over 320 pounds dt, ellis? lol
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 3590
Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the value in the 2nd of the Obi pick.

3 things that he will bring to our defense. Range, coverage and tackling. He will take away a lot of the big plays that killed us last year, because he is a sure tackler and it will be a lot harder to beat us over the top with a S with his length plus speed.

I don't think he will ever be a big hitter or huge playmaker, lacks a certain amount of aggression imo

I think he will frustrate us some because he is a physical freak and I think he is capable of more than what he shows on tape. I hope some of that comes out.
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THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BayRaider wrote:
I see Obi and KJo switching back and forth between FS/SS. The cool thing is they can both play both positions. I see Obi playing more FS and KJo more SS though.

We are going to have one heck of a versatile secondary. Obi can play either S spot, Outside CB, and I think we could use him at LB on obvious passing situations to cover TEs.

KJo can play either S spot and Nickel corner.

Conley can play both outside and nickel corner.

Carrie is not starter material even at nickel but he is depth at Outside CB, Nickel, FS, and SS. A swiss army knife backup guy.

Could be Smith and Nelsons last year with their lack of versatility.


How is Carrie not starter material? When he basically outplayed everyone in the secondary when given the opportunity....blows my mind how people continue to throw shade at Carrie. The guys making no money and comes out and outplays both Amerson and Smith last year. But maybe some people on here still think Hayden is better Laughing
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THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
I see Obi and KJo switching back and forth between FS/SS. The cool thing is they can both play both positions. I see Obi playing more FS and KJo more SS though.

We are going to have one heck of a versatile secondary. Obi can play either S spot, Outside CB, and I think we could use him at LB on obvious passing situations to cover TEs.

KJo can play either S spot and Nickel corner.

Conley can play both outside and nickel corner.

Carrie is not starter material even at nickel but he is depth at Outside CB, Nickel, FS, and SS. A swiss army knife backup guy.

Could be Smith and Nelsons last year with their lack of versatility.


How is Carrie not starter material? When he basically outplayed everyone in the secondary when given the opportunity....blows my mind how people continue to throw shade at Carrie. The guys making no money and comes out and outplays both Amerson and Smith last year. But maybe some people on here still think Hayden is better Laughing


To add onto what I said..if Carrie is your nickel Corner, your doing pretty good. You can't have every player on your team making 8+ million a year; Carrie is the exact type of low key player who has huge value to our team because he's making what a 7th rounder makes and plays at a higher level than Smith and Amerson both played last year.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed quite a few people dogging Obi saying he's raw/a project. Am I missing something? Everything I've seen and read says he is a good prospect with the range and coverage ability you want in a safety. I'm guessing people are looking at his freakish H/W/S, combine numbers, and the fact he doesn't come from a powerhouse and assume he's super raw.
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RaidersAreOne


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 16832
Location: Canada, but don't worry... i'm not one of those damn dirty french.
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
I've noticed quite a few people dogging Obi saying he's raw/a project. Am I missing something? Everything I've seen and read says he is a good prospect with the range and coverage ability you want in a safety. I'm guessing people are looking at his freakish H/W/S, combine numbers, and the fact he doesn't come from a powerhouse and assume he's super raw.


I agree with you 100%. Sure he needs to improve on some things like every rookie ever, but he could/maybe should be a starter for us from day 1. All the athleticism you could ask for, range, ball skills, durable, productive, good tackler, etc.

He is by no means a project.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5255
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
I see Obi and KJo switching back and forth between FS/SS. The cool thing is they can both play both positions. I see Obi playing more FS and KJo more SS though.

We are going to have one heck of a versatile secondary. Obi can play either S spot, Outside CB, and I think we could use him at LB on obvious passing situations to cover TEs.

KJo can play either S spot and Nickel corner.

Conley can play both outside and nickel corner.

Carrie is not starter material even at nickel but he is depth at Outside CB, Nickel, FS, and SS. A swiss army knife backup guy.

Could be Smith and Nelsons last year with their lack of versatility.


How is Carrie not starter material? When he basically outplayed everyone in the secondary when given the opportunity....blows my mind how people continue to throw shade at Carrie. The guys making no money and comes out and outplays both Amerson and Smith last year. But maybe some people on here still think Hayden is better Laughing


Not sure what games you were watching. While Smith and Amerson had some bad games, they also had some tremendous games that Carrie is not capable of having. And yes Hayden did out perform Carrie last year. Last year was Haydens best season. Allthough didn't warrant an extension.

Carrie I like a lot. But in coverage he's a little below average, for sure.

Just one of those players Raider fans will defend until no end because of bias. Carrie being our permanent nickel corner is not a good thing.
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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
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Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mad stork has been on carrie's nuts for some time now
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