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2017 2nd Rounders: Malik McDowell and Ethan Pocic
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brseahawks


Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 803
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy Graham is underpaid.

That said, they did try to sign TJ Lang.
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wa3rh


Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think jimmy graham can be a 1,000 yard receiver for us and is a really good player. I just think hes not a good fit for seahawks situation. We need cap room for sure, to pay are offensive line.i know were going with him hell or high water. Lol i think will have a cheap line as well, so hopefully we can get a gem or two on the offensive line to make are run game improve.
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 7010
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brseahawks wrote:
Jimmy Graham is underpaid.

That said, they did try to sign TJ Lang.


This is true. If we had the money for him, you'd think we'd have the money for Britt after another year.
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DCRED wrote:
Your dialogue was amazing and your facts presented were Stellar.
You give yourself and your team's forum great Honor.
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imani


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Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 33485
Location: Harlem, NY
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
Can't help but think the raiders stole Obi from us. That's frustrating.


If they wanted him, they'd trade up for him. Seahawks is not gun shy when it comes to Draft, specially with elite athletes. They spent time with him, didn't like him, move on.


I don't know, we would never do it if the value wasn't right. Might not have been a deal that made sense, because he certainly fits the Seattle mold and many reports back that up.

I don't ever remember Seattle overpaying on a trade up, even if it was "their guy".
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brseahawks


Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 803
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
Can't help but think the raiders stole Obi from us. That's frustrating.


If they wanted him, they'd trade up for him. Seahawks is not gun shy when it comes to Draft, specially with elite athletes. They spent time with him, didn't like him, move on.


I don't know, we would never do it if the value wasn't right. Might not have been a deal that made sense, because he certainly fits the Seattle mold and many reports back that up.

I don't ever remember Seattle overpaying on a trade up, even if it was "their guy".


Aggressive trade ups:
Tyler Lockett in 2015
Jarran Reed in 2016

"Reaches":
James Carpenter in 2011
Bruce Irvin and Russell Wilson in 2012
Paul Reachardson and Justin Britt in 2014
Frank Clark in 2015
Rees Odhiambo in 2016. One would say Germain Ifedi too.
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imani


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Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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Location: Harlem, NY
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
Can't help but think the raiders stole Obi from us. That's frustrating.


If they wanted him, they'd trade up for him. Seahawks is not gun shy when it comes to Draft, specially with elite athletes. They spent time with him, didn't like him, move on.


I don't know, we would never do it if the value wasn't right. Might not have been a deal that made sense, because he certainly fits the Seattle mold and many reports back that up.

I don't ever remember Seattle overpaying on a trade up, even if it was "their guy".


Aggressive trade ups:
Tyler Lockett in 2015
Jarran Reed in 2016

"Reaches":
James Carpenter in 2011
Bruce Irvin and Russell Wilson in 2012
Paul Reachardson and Justin Britt in 2014
Frank Clark in 2015
Rees Odhiambo in 2016. One would say Germain Ifedi too.


I'm not saying that we haven't traded up. I'm saying. I don't remember seeing a trade up and thinking we way overpaid.
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Zman724


Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 640
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
SoS wrote:
I really like the McDowell pick. I learned my lesson knocking Kawann Short so far down my rankings for "low motor". McDowell is a man and can win from anywhere along the DLine. It's not often you find an interior lineman with that type of bend.


Pocic makes no sense to me. Best case scenario is he's your starting RG and you're saying Odhiambo was a wasted pick. Worst case you spent a 2nd round pick on a backup utility lineman.

Can't hate too much though, at least we're just adding bodies to compete along the OLine.
if you spend three third rounders on guards and get two starters, you're probably doing alright in reality

For what it is worth, they called him a tackle. Seattle chooses what he gets announced as, so they must think he potentially has a future at OT


Great selection. While we all believe it was too high, the brass didn't want to wait until 90 and maybe drop downs weren't possible. They loved Pocic.

He has a RT body and has the flexibility to play any position across the line, less LT.

He gets to compete, hopefully start, and at season's end when Britt wants big money, Pocic can slide to Center.

I think JS/PC realize that Ifedi was the wasted pick. I'm beating this dead horse and I apologize, but Ifedi will get abused at RT going against ANY speed rusher. While most speed guys play weak side, more and more are attacking from the strong side. I just hope Ifedi can hold down a guard position but that is very questionable. Aboushi will win the starting RG position based on my speculation and eyes. Where will Ifedi end up?

I like the selection and the versatility and leadership Pocic will bring. Playing in the SEC and making line calls only adds to our OL and future cohesiveness. Let's build a line and call it good.
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Zman724


Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 640
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
Meeker wrote:
imani wrote:
Meeker wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
I know he is crazy talented. I guess its time to trust Pete and the ceterans can keep his head in straight


Worked well with Frank Clark


Frank never had a motor issue


I was referring to keeping his head in the right place.


Sorry, that was a hasty post that probably came off negative. My meaning was that franks issue wasn't really football related and probably a little overblown in the draft process. Malik taking plays truly scares me, but I think he was drafted to become the next Michael Bennett in Seattle down the line....his ceiling is at cathedral heights.

Any notable cases of a player finding a motor in the league ?


At 35, I like the Selection. Calais Campbell was a lazy b! tch that lacked consistent motor at Miami and reason he went into round 2, also. He turned into a man among boys in the NFL.

When you have a chance to take a guy with the natural ability that Malik has and at #35, you take him. We've had such a tough time getting that consistent interior pass rush and having him rotate in will give him minimum snaps to go all out.

I'm excited to see Malik line up all over. I'm typically critical of draft selections and I like this choice.

There are no guarantees with any selections as a good 50% of the 1st rdrs will be busts or minimal contributors. To get this ability at a risk in rd 2 is just fine with me.
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brseahawks


Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 803
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik McDowell's pick was my least favourite. I don't like this specific type of gamble, would rather gamble on Wormley's elite athletic profile and effort/motor than McDowell's general refinement, repertoire and age.

Going over his profile, I'd take both DeForest Buckner and Arik Armstead's profile comfortably over McDowell's, and let's not pretend we're talking about elite athletes here. McDowell is just an average athlete.

Watching his tape: I don't see a Seahawk. I see a lazy guy, without gap discipline. I see a guy that doesn't have pride over football.
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Zman724


Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 640
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This 2017 draft is going to be the best since 2012 which won't be touched for a long time.

2015 with Clark and Lockett is decent.

I see Malik being better than Clark.
While we won't get any O production to compare to Lockett,
I see Pocic starting.
I see Tedric being a future starter & playing in nickel real soon.
I see Griffen being that outside starting CB for years.

Even if that's all we get, it's better than anything since 2012. What about Naz? Delano? They at least get practice squad.

Our drafts have been fairly weak but this 2017 will end up being better than we believe right now.

We're a bit critical because we all had our guys that didn't get selected (me included) but when we take a step back and let it unfold, this will be a very good draft and keep us being in SB contention annually.

I couldn't handle the past few years' drafts and only liked:

2013 - Christine Michael
2014- PRich and KPL
2015- Tyler Lockett
2016- Jarran Reed and Alex Collins.

I can't stand that Collins just can get the carries necessary to show his skill. Now with all these backs, he may get cut. Physical backs need 15+ carries to get rolling. Even Lynch regressed in Buffalo when he started sharing the backfield with Fred Jackson. Lynch needed 20+, not 10 and reason he was shipped to us when Buffalo decided to draft CJ Spiller.

That is 6 guys in 4 years that I was excited about. I'm excited about 4 guys this year with who knows on a cpl of others.

I really like this draft.
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brseahawks


Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 803
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is the 3rd straight very good draft by the Seahawks. I think we should all count Jimmy Graham as part of the 2015 class. I think the jury on 2016 should be held until (2018) we have definitive proof on Ifedi and Odhiambo's ability to be starting quality or Prosise to have a healthy season.

I agree with ZMan, positionally we did great.

1 - McDowell is drafted play EDGE on run downs, 3-tech on nickel downs and 1-tech on NASCAR downs. I wanted this type of player for so long here in Seattle. 3-down interior pass rusher. I just don't like the name. Takes way too many plays off and is very indisciplined against the run. Less explosive and quick than desired. Like ZMan said: he has the natural ability to be a really special player early in his carreer. Seems like the Seahawks are looking for the next Calais Campbell or Kawann Short in McDowell.

2 - Pocic is a versatile, 2 for 1, offensive linemen to compete for multiple spots and add insurance in case Britt gets really expensive. Past the shock: Pocic pick was solid. He embodies the "Smart - Tough - Reliable" mantra John Schneider rolled on pre-Draft press conference. They seem to have moved on from previous way of drafting (raw explosive athletes). They should now move on from ZBS for god sake and make it simpler for new OL to plug and play.

3 - Shaquill Griffin is imo the outside CB starter of the future. He is raw, but has the swag, lenght, speed, explosion and physicallity to make a beautiful Seahawks outside corner and make Shead and Lane expendable, clearing cap space for 2018. Seahawks is all about draft and develop, Shaquill Griffin makes too much sense for what the Seahawks covet in CB prospects (more than King and Melifonwu, if you ask me). While some of us were shooting for the next Sherman, Maxwell or Browner, seems like the Seahawks went for someone that has a Janoris Jenkins vibe.

4 - Delano Hill is not the greatest athlete but is big (~220 lbs), long (gigantic 77.5" wingspan, 32" arms) fast (5th fastest SS in this draft), and this tell just half the story: check his tape. This dude is the cleanest, most polished and arguably the smartest DB prospect the Seahawks has ever drafted, until the pick 111 in the 2017 Draft. He is a tackling machine around the LOS and has experience playing the big nickel role. If the Seahawks is planning on moving on from the three CBs in nickel packages to three Safeties, he is gonna be a hell of a competitor to Bradley McDougald, this position could potentially see ~70% of the offensive snaps.

5 - Nazair Jones looks more athletic on tape than his testing numbers suggest. Very similar to the Rees Odhiambo pick in 2016, only on the other side of the ball. Cheaper than McDaniel, could be Rubin's replacement for the future.

6 - Darboh is a fast, body catcher version of Jermaine Kearse. Simple as that. He needs to work on using his whole catch radius to catch balls away from his body and his press release. Once he figures this out, Seahawks can safely cut Kearse to save 5m APY. The bad is: Lockett came into the league a body catcher and two years from that, he's still a body catcher. Shouldn't see a problem adapting to the Seahawks game plan: Michigan's pro style offense should easily transition to the Seahawks way of playing offense.

7 - Tedric Thompson is a hell of a pick. The Seahawks drafted the second best center fielder and the most polished DB to be ever drafted by the Seahawks to back up Thomas. Seahawks finally put to rest the depth problems in the safety positions with the Hill and Thompson picks.

8 - Mike Tyson with the 187 pick. Given the info we got, he's gonna join Shaquill Griffin to be developed as outside CB, joining Elliott and Thorpe in the Seahawks stable.

9 - Justin Senior: John Schneider praised his pass protection and said he's in to play LT for the Seahawks. If you want to know why the Seahawks drafted him, check his earlier college tape (where he played at 295 lbs) rather than later tape (where he played at 315 lbs).

10 - David Moore: Identical phyisical profile to Darboh. Just like Tyson is follow up to Shaquill Griffin's outside CB developmental process to overtake Shead/Lane, seems like Moore is follow up to Darboh's process to overtake Kearse.

11 - Chris Carson: explosive tester, retooled his game from finesse to power after he was called out for being soft... in 5 games. That's the kind of desire and heart the Seahawks love. Running style draws comparison to Thomas Rawls. What's not to like from a mere 7th round pick?
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