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2017 2nd Rounders: Malik McDowell and Ethan Pocic
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brseahawks


Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
Can't help but think the raiders stole Obi from us. That's frustrating.


If they wanted him, they'd trade up for him. Seahawks is not gun shy when it comes to Draft, specially with elite athletes. They spent time with him, didn't like him, move on.
for sure. We have traded up in the second for britt and traded up into the early third for lockett in recent years. There were guys that other teams stole from us as fans, but that is different then from seattle. It has become very apparent this year more than maybe any other that seattle just has a different board

I am sure they like Ramzcyk, King, Budda, Obi, etc but not as much above other guys as we did


La Canfora says they'd look into King with our first pick if McDowell was off the board.

I particularly hate the McDowell pick. Really poor value. Ravens got Chris Wormley at 74 (plays same position, similar production, superior athlete, no drama), and that's a great pick. I'd much rather have Forrest Lamp at #35 and Wormley at #58 than what we got. Heck they could've loaded the pass rush with the options they had at #58 (Willis, Wormley, Hall, Ogunjobi) and later, instead of picking Nazair Jones, Isaac Asiata.

I don't like what the Seahawks made in the second round.

On the PCJS Board: Seems like they had pretty similar grades from everyone between late first round and the end of their third round. I think that because they weren't aggressive with trading up using their 3rd round picks to move up, and used pretty much all their day two picks for guys to compete for roster spot. Didn't set themselves to draft an specific player. They went on and drafted "next man up".

Malik McDowell pushes Michael Bennett.
Ethan Piocic pushes Justin Britt
Shaquill Griffin pushes Jeremy Lane/DeShawn Shead
Delano Hill pushes Bradley McDougald
Nazair Jones pushes Athyba Rubin/Tony McDaniel
Amara Darboh pushes Jermaine Kearse.


Last edited by brseahawks on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:39 am; edited 4 times in total
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NFL_Announcer


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McDowell is obviously a huge boom/bust prospect. If he actually gave a crap in college and interviewed worth anything, he could've gone top 10. He's CRAZY talented, has freakish size, and there were plenty of games where he just flat out bull rushed past lineman with his crazy long arms.

IF he actually wants to try and be good for Seattle, and works on his technique, it could go down as one of the biggest steals of this draft. But that's ALL contingent on him actually caring.

The thought of what he COULD do with Bennett/Avril is IMO absolutely horrifying for opposing QBs. Bennett/Avril/McDowell (the boom version)/insert random pleb = o.O

Grade: C, C+ with the trade. You can't give boom/bust prospects any more than an average grade. It'll likely either be an A+ or F 2-3 years from now in draft re-grades.

As for Pocic, I don't get this trade at all. I think Seattle wanted Bolles but Denver snatched him up. Pocic played mostly center and that's the ONE bright spot we actually have on the line, so I guess they are going to try and work him in at guard? He's got experience with all positions across the line and he's tall with long arms so maybe Cable is going to try and work with him and get him to tackle at some point. Who knows.

Pick didn't make a lot of sense... I don't know much about the guy to be honest.

Grade: C-. It's another 'project' O-lineman that currently doesn't really have a starting spot on the line.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brseahawks wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
Can't help but think the raiders stole Obi from us. That's frustrating.


If they wanted him, they'd trade up for him. Seahawks is not gun shy when it comes to Draft, specially with elite athletes. They spent time with him, didn't like him, move on.
for sure. We have traded up in the second for britt and traded up into the early third for lockett in recent years. There were guys that other teams stole from us as fans, but that is different then from seattle. It has become very apparent this year more than maybe any other that seattle just has a different board

I am sure they like Ramzcyk, King, Budda, Obi, etc but not as much above other guys as we did


La Canfora says they'd look into King with our first pick if McDowell was off the board.

I particularly hate the McDowell pick. Really poor value. Ravens got Chris Wormley at 74 (plays same position, similar production, superior athlete, no drama), and that's a great pick. I'd much rather have Forrest Lamp at #35 and Wormley at #58 than what we got. Heck they could've loaded the pass rush with the options they had at #58 (Willis, Wormley, Hall, Ogunjobi) and later, instead of picking Nazair Jones, Isaac Asiata.

I don't like what the Seahawks made in the second round.

On the PCJS Board: Seems like they had pretty similar grades from everyone between late first round and the end of their third round. I think that because they weren't aggressive with trading up using their 3rd round picks to move up, and used pretty much all their day two picks for guys to compete for roster spot. Didn't set themselves to draft an specific player. They went on and drafted "next man up".

Malik McDowell pushes Michael Bennett.
Ethan Piocic pushes Justin Britt
Shaquill Griffin pushes Jeremy Lane/DeShawn Shead
Delano Hill pushes Bradley McDougald
Nazair Jones pushes Athyba Rubin/Tony McDaniel
Amara Darboh pushes Jermaine Kearse.
Pocic was announced as a Tackle and he's 6'6"

Unless there's a quote of Schneider saying the opposite, there is a reason they announced him as a tackle.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
Any notable cases of a player finding a motor in the league ?


Kawann Short. I downgraded him big time coming out of Purdue because of it, but he flashed tremendous ability when he showed up. Malik McDowell shows up more often than Short ever did, and arguably has a better skillset coming out of college.

John said on radio that McDowell had a high ankle sprain early in the year and couldn't go 100% from there on out, and he thinks that is what earned him the low motor tag. Had an elite sophomore season.

I honestly think we would have passed on King if both players were there with the way John talked about him. He said you never find interior defensive linemen that can bend the way he does in the 2nd round. I agree.
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NFL_Announcer


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
imani wrote:
Any notable cases of a player finding a motor in the league ?


Kawann Short. I downgraded him big time coming out of Purdue because of it, but he flashed tremendous ability when he showed up. Malik McDowell shows up more often than Short ever did, and arguably has a better skillset coming out of college.

John said on radio that McDowell had a high ankle sprain early in the year and couldn't go 100% from there on out, and he thinks that is what earned him the low motor tag. Had an elite sophomore season.

I honestly think we would have passed on King if both players were there with the way John talked about him. He said you never find interior defensive linemen that can bend the way he does in the 2nd round. I agree.


I wanted Short AND Dunlap... Seattle passed on both. I also wanted McDowell but wasn't getting my hopes up (wanted Obi too) given Seattle always passes on D-Lineman I want.

Seattle finally picked a D-Lineman I wanted.. let's see if it'll be 3/3 (was right about Short/Dunlap - especially for 2nd rounders).
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
imani wrote:
Can't help but think the raiders stole Obi from us. That's frustrating.


If they wanted him, they'd trade up for him. Seahawks is not gun shy when it comes to Draft, specially with elite athletes. They spent time with him, didn't like him, move on.
for sure. We have traded up in the second for britt and traded up into the early third for lockett in recent years. There were guys that other teams stole from us as fans, but that is different then from seattle. It has become very apparent this year more than maybe any other that seattle just has a different board

I am sure they like Ramzcyk, King, Budda, Obi, etc but not as much above other guys as we did


La Canfora says they'd look into King with our first pick if McDowell was off the board.

I particularly hate the McDowell pick. Really poor value. Ravens got Chris Wormley at 74 (plays same position, similar production, superior athlete, no drama), and that's a great pick. I'd much rather have Forrest Lamp at #35 and Wormley at #58 than what we got. Heck they could've loaded the pass rush with the options they had at #58 (Willis, Wormley, Hall, Ogunjobi) and later, instead of picking Nazair Jones, Isaac Asiata.

I don't like what the Seahawks made in the second round.

On the PCJS Board: Seems like they had pretty similar grades from everyone between late first round and the end of their third round. I think that because they weren't aggressive with trading up using their 3rd round picks to move up, and used pretty much all their day two picks for guys to compete for roster spot. Didn't set themselves to draft an specific player. They went on and drafted "next man up".

Malik McDowell pushes Michael Bennett.
Ethan Piocic pushes Justin Britt
Shaquill Griffin pushes Jeremy Lane/DeShawn Shead
Delano Hill pushes Bradley McDougald
Nazair Jones pushes Athyba Rubin/Tony McDaniel
Amara Darboh pushes Jermaine Kearse.
Pocic was announced as a Tackle and he's 6'6"

Unless there's a quote of Schneider saying the opposite, there is a reason they announced him as a tackle.


In last night's interview John said that they secretly loved this kid (I don't think they were taking Obi over him) because they felt he was a year 1 starter at either RG or RT. It was probably trivial to them what position was put on the card.

The most telling part of the interview, however, was when Pete went on to say that Pocic could also move to center in the future because they're going to have a hard time retaining Britt.
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Your dialogue was amazing and your facts presented were Stellar.
You give yourself and your team's forum great Honor.
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NFL_Announcer


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:


In last night's interview John said that they secretly loved this kid (I don't think they were taking Obi over him) because they felt he was a year 1 starter at either RG or RT. It was probably trivial to them what position was put on the card.

The most telling part of the interview, however, was when Pete went on to say that Pocic could also move to center in the future because they're going to have a hard time retaining Britt.


Ugh, are you kidding me? I'm so tired of this team not spending any money on retaining their OLineman. We finally get Carpenter worked out, and let him go... and low and behold he was one of the top guards according to PFF. Now we finally get Britt worked out, and we're going to have a hard time retaining him. Jesus H?

I'm sure we'll turn Ifedi into a MONSTER tackle in a couple years, and then let him walk too.... I mean c'mon. I get focusing on the D but keeping the most expensive player on our team off his back 24/7 should be the priority now... or just draft 3rd round QBs every 2-3 years.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NFL_Announcer wrote:
SoS wrote:


In last night's interview John said that they secretly loved this kid (I don't think they were taking Obi over him) because they felt he was a year 1 starter at either RG or RT. It was probably trivial to them what position was put on the card.

The most telling part of the interview, however, was when Pete went on to say that Pocic could also move to center in the future because they're going to have a hard time retaining Britt.


Ugh, are you kidding me? I'm so tired of this team not spending any money on retaining their OLineman. We finally get Carpenter worked out, and let him go... and low and behold he was one of the top guards according to PFF. Now we finally get Britt worked out, and we're going to have a hard time retaining him. Jesus H?

I'm sure we'll turn Ifedi into a MONSTER tackle in a couple years, and then let him walk too.... I mean c'mon. I get focusing on the D but keeping the most expensive player on our team off his back 24/7 should be the priority now... or just draft 3rd round QBs every 2-3 years.


We'll see how he plays this year. Easy to say you might struggle to afford a guy who was just a Pro Bowler. Obviously it helps our cause if we're able to shed a contract like Sherman or Kam.
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You give yourself and your team's forum great Honor.
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brseahawks


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they believe Pocic can compete all along the OL. He has tape playing RT.

SoS wrote:
imani wrote:
Any notable cases of a player finding a motor in the league ?


Kawann Short. I downgraded him big time coming out of Purdue because of it, but he flashed tremendous ability when he showed up. Malik McDowell shows up more often than Short ever did, and arguably has a better skillset coming out of college.

John said on radio that McDowell had a high ankle sprain early in the year and couldn't go 100% from there on out, and he thinks that is what earned him the low motor tag. Had an elite sophomore season.

I honestly think we would have passed on King if both players were there with the way John talked about him. He said you never find interior defensive linemen that can bend the way he does in the 2nd round. I agree.


For sure, PC and JS were in love. They comp'd him to Calais Campbell. They have CC's college coach. They believe he can play all along the line (EDGE on run downs, 3T on nickel downs and 1t on NASCAR). This is the pick that they went for the home run.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brseahawks wrote:
I think they believe Pocic can compete all along the OL. He has tape playing RT.

SoS wrote:
imani wrote:
Any notable cases of a player finding a motor in the league ?


Kawann Short. I downgraded him big time coming out of Purdue because of it, but he flashed tremendous ability when he showed up. Malik McDowell shows up more often than Short ever did, and arguably has a better skillset coming out of college.

John said on radio that McDowell had a high ankle sprain early in the year and couldn't go 100% from there on out, and he thinks that is what earned him the low motor tag. Had an elite sophomore season.

I honestly think we would have passed on King if both players were there with the way John talked about him. He said you never find interior defensive linemen that can bend the way he does in the 2nd round. I agree.


For sure, PC and JS were in love. They comp'd him to Calais Campbell. They have CC's college coach. They believe he can play all along the line (EDGE on run downs, 3T on nickel downs and 1t on NASCAR). This is the pick that they went for the home run.


Yep. I agreed with pretty much everything they had to say on him and found it interesting what they had to say about his high ankle sprain. They clearly felt like they got a steal because they talked about his sophomore tape like he was a top 10 prospect.

"He was too unique to pass on."
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brseahawks


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have a feeling they believe he's a better athlete than he tested. In terms of fluidity of movements, elasticity, body control and stuff.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brseahawks wrote:
I also have a feeling they believe he's a better athlete than he tested. In terms of fluidity of movements, elasticity, body control and stuff.


Not like he tested poorly either. Ran a faster 40 than Taco Charlton with 20 extra pounds on him. Ran a faster 10, 3Cone, and Short Shuttle than DeMarcus Walker with 15 extra pounds on him. Tested better overall than Jonathan Allen.

Not to mention he showed up with some of the longest arms and biggest hands of the class.
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Your dialogue was amazing and your facts presented were Stellar.
You give yourself and your team's forum great Honor.
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brseahawks


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
brseahawks wrote:
I also have a feeling they believe he's a better athlete than he tested. In terms of fluidity of movements, elasticity, body control and stuff.


Not like he tested poorly either. Ran a faster 40 than Taco Charlton with 20 extra pounds on him. Ran a faster 10, 3Cone, and Short Shuttle than DeMarcus Walker with 15 extra pounds on him. Tested better overall than Jonathan Allen.

Not to mention he showed up with some of the longest arms and biggest hands of the class.


Which makes my post mean a lot. I am comparing him directly to Chris Wormley, though.
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wa3rh


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we should have put all the money we have spent on jimmy graham in paying are offensive line. Graham in my opinion doesnt fit this system in seattle, and has definetly been a blunder and a big reason we have lost all our offensive line.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wa3rh wrote:
I think we should have put all the money we have spent on jimmy graham in paying are offensive line. Graham in my opinion doesnt fit this system in seattle, and has definetly been a blunder and a big reason we have lost all our offensive line.


I don't disagree with the allocation of resources going toward the OLine, but I think you'll look back on this comment in November/December and chuckle. Jimmy was a year removed from arguably the most devastating injury a player can return from and, relative to those before him with the same injury, put up a historic season. He wasn't even practicing with the team most days because his knee was so sore. I think we get a big, big year out of him in 2017.
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