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Pick #24- Gareon Conley (CB)
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3072
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VY wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
Kinda feel like Conley played us now by not saying consensual sex happened until after the draft to make sure he got drafted. I still think he won't be charged but i'd be lying if I wasn't slightly nervous. I would hate if Reggie looks like the biggest idiot of all time among the media.


I think he did tell us. I think he told us the whole story. The same that the witnesses have attested to. You think he would lie to the team knowing a different story was about to come out. He has to come into the HQ and to workouts and look those people in the eye.


Conley's problem is they attested this to some random guy that runs a draft website. in the police report, their accounts - verbatim - say "Conley never touched her" and "Witness 2 said he was sitting in the chiar by the window the whole time Conley and ______ were in the room. Witness 2 said Conley and ______ were laying on the bed together, but nothing happened."

Just because that Draft Diamonds dude got a different story from the witnesses doesn't really change how this case will go. If anything it will just make it worse as they've changed their story. If Conley is relying on witness statements gathered at the scene by police, those are now pretty much worthless. This could still go many different ways, but it's not a good look for GC right now. Maybe his friends were just worried that any consensual act would be construed as a crime. But if it really was consensual they should've just went with the truth, because clearly at this point they're liars. And if this gets to court, their statements will get shredded.


You don't know the context they made those statements or the questions asked to get the replies. That is why they give full statements about the full events of the night. Even the supposed victims lawyers say the police report released to the media is incomplete.
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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Posts: 5048
Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
raiderrocker18 wrote:
Reggie when he was going over the "miles and miles of research"



Don't be as bad as the media who interprets "consensual sexual event" as "consensual intercourse"

And that's not a picture of Reggie, so the joke doesn't work

im well aware... but thanks for being a party pooper

i acknowledged on the previous page that the tweets are being misinterpreted and the picture being reggie is a running joke here
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3072
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raiderrocker18 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
raiderrocker18 wrote:
Reggie when he was going over the "miles and miles of research"



Don't be as bad as the media who interprets "consensual sexual event" as "consensual intercourse"

And that's not a picture of Reggie, so the joke doesn't work

im well aware... but thanks for being a party pooper

i acknowledged on the previous page that the tweets are being misinterpreted and the picture being reggie is a running joke here


A lazy and tired joke...
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attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1072
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boys.... it is what it is.... this isn't a new thing, it's a reoccurring problem in our society.

Is it the [inappropriate/removed] athlete with an ego that can't take "no" for an answer?

Is it the scorned woman looking to make a quick buck or get revenge by making a public accusation?

We all know an accusation in and of itself can destroy someone's reputation and that isn't explicit to Conley. Even if he were totally cleared, this will effect his image for a long time.

The witnesses don't really mean anything either imo - they're all his entourage so of course they're going to support his innocence.

If I had to guess I'd say our decision to draft him was hardly based on witness testimony or facts - because there are very little (if any) tangible facts. It's all verbatim and he-said-she-said.

IMO our decision to draft him was probably based on a few things:

1. His track record is flawless - this is a total outlier for him not a theme.

2. Interviews with him - we probably believed in him as a person and his innocence.

3. The liklihood of criminal repercussions against him are slim. The fact that at least some of it was consensual makes it difficult to prove that anything subsequent was not consensual.
He's innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on her to prove he's guilty, not on him to prove his innocence. With lack of hard evidence to prove his guilt, the assumption is he's innocent. Hard evidence in this case is going to be difficult if even possible to obtain on her end.

We probably made a business decision that his talent and character were enough to take on his baggage. But that's just my opinion.
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VY


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3621
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
VY wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
Kinda feel like Conley played us now by not saying consensual sex happened until after the draft to make sure he got drafted. I still think he won't be charged but i'd be lying if I wasn't slightly nervous. I would hate if Reggie looks like the biggest idiot of all time among the media.


I think he did tell us. I think he told us the whole story. The same that the witnesses have attested to. You think he would lie to the team knowing a different story was about to come out. He has to come into the HQ and to workouts and look those people in the eye.


Conley's problem is they attested this to some random guy that runs a draft website. in the police report, their accounts - verbatim - say "Conley never touched her" and "Witness 2 said he was sitting in the chiar by the window the whole time Conley and ______ were in the room. Witness 2 said Conley and ______ were laying on the bed together, but nothing happened."

Just because that Draft Diamonds dude got a different story from the witnesses doesn't really change how this case will go. If anything it will just make it worse as they've changed their story. If Conley is relying on witness statements gathered at the scene by police, those are now pretty much worthless. This could still go many different ways, but it's not a good look for GC right now. Maybe his friends were just worried that any consensual act would be construed as a crime. But if it really was consensual they should've just went with the truth, because clearly at this point they're liars. And if this gets to court, their statements will get shredded.


You don't know the context they made those statements or the questions asked to get the replies. That is why they give full statements about the full events of the night. Even the supposed victims lawyers say the police report released to the media is incomplete.


I get that, but the fact that the official statements are now being directly contradicted by GC's lawyer, that won't play well in a court w/a jury. That's not a guess, that's just how it is. If he is indeed charged, and she does decide to press forward, assuming his DNA shows up in any manner that's going to be tough for him to argue his case. It's going to be a sad story one way or another, but the inconsistencies are not looking good for GC.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2002
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say there was No one there to witness this.He's Screwed.How easily it is for a female to Make allegations like this.

Last edited by Mr.Bob Dobalina on Tue May 02, 2017 10:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5097
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Say there was No one there to witness this.He's Screwed.How easily it is for a female to Make allegations like this.


How is he screwed? You have to prove it wasn't consensual and I don't see how this girl is going to do that.
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attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1072
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BayRaider wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Say there was No one there to witness this.He's Screwed.How easily it is for a female to Make allegations like this.


How is he screwed? You have to prove it wasn't consensual and I don't see how this girl is going to do that.


Bingo ^. His reputation has taken a beating but in terms of criminal charges.... the odds are waaaaaaay on his side. They'll settle out of court on civil claims. Pretty much how these things go
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3072
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VY wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
VY wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
Kinda feel like Conley played us now by not saying consensual sex happened until after the draft to make sure he got drafted. I still think he won't be charged but i'd be lying if I wasn't slightly nervous. I would hate if Reggie looks like the biggest idiot of all time among the media.


I think he did tell us. I think he told us the whole story. The same that the witnesses have attested to. You think he would lie to the team knowing a different story was about to come out. He has to come into the HQ and to workouts and look those people in the eye.


Conley's problem is they attested this to some random guy that runs a draft website. in the police report, their accounts - verbatim - say "Conley never touched her" and "Witness 2 said he was sitting in the chiar by the window the whole time Conley and ______ were in the room. Witness 2 said Conley and ______ were laying on the bed together, but nothing happened."

Just because that Draft Diamonds dude got a different story from the witnesses doesn't really change how this case will go. If anything it will just make it worse as they've changed their story. If Conley is relying on witness statements gathered at the scene by police, those are now pretty much worthless. This could still go many different ways, but it's not a good look for GC right now. Maybe his friends were just worried that any consensual act would be construed as a crime. But if it really was consensual they should've just went with the truth, because clearly at this point they're liars. And if this gets to court, their statements will get shredded.


You don't know the context they made those statements or the questions asked to get the replies. That is why they give full statements about the full events of the night. Even the supposed victims lawyers say the police report released to the media is incomplete.


I get that, but the fact that the official statements are now being directly contradicted by GC's lawyer, that won't play well in a court w/a jury. That's not a guess, that's just how it is. If he is indeed charged, and she does decide to press forward, assuming his DNA shows up in any manner that's going to be tough for him to argue his case. It's going to be a sad story one way or another, but the inconsistencies are not looking good for GC.


That is cleared up in witness questioning by any lawyer worth his fee easily.

Lawyer speaking - In the police report it say and I quote " blah blah". Can you explain this?

Witness gives context.

Or

Lawyer walks witness thru timeline and ask witness what question the detective asked to garner that response. And then shows and enters into evidence the witnesses sworn testimony. If the DA throws shade on it. The Lawyer redirects with the timeline again.

In both cases, contradiction OVER.

You can stop now.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2002
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not Referring to him Necessarily.People in his situation with No Witnese's Present.A Female can say anything she wants and if It was consentual, how would he have a leg to stand on.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5097
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

attack_in_s/b wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Say there was No one there to witness this.He's Screwed.How easily it is for a female to Make allegations like this.


How is he screwed? You have to prove it wasn't consensual and I don't see how this girl is going to do that.


Bingo ^. His reputation has taken a beating but in terms of criminal charges.... the odds are waaaaaaay on his side. They'll settle out of court on civil claims. Pretty much how these things go


Agreed, now that he'll have some cash heading his way this will probably be a settlement a few months from now. Very unfortunate for Conley and hope it doesn't end up being to much.
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6850
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My synopsis from the Fiesta Bowl Notre Dame game for Conley:

Conley lined up primarily as the LCB and played a mix of man and zone - not too different from his 2016 tape. Notre Dame provided a unique challenge for Conley because he saw quite a bit of Will Fuller - though the narrative of this game was Fuller was hampered by a bum ankle.

Despite rumors of Fuller's injury, Conley played him as though he was at full strength.

Here we see Conley playing what looks like deep 3rd. He does a good job coming off his bail technique and making the tackle on Fuller. This is just of the offense and defense draws it up on 1st and 10.

This next play has Conley lined up again against Fuller, but in man coverage. This is a good example of how Conley can flip his hips on two way go's.

Fuller stems his slant as if he's running a go route, but Conley stays step-for-step with him underneath. Kizer doesn't look his way. This play articulates the hope Conley has the wherewithal to play on the inside. I have my doubts, but it does show his upside in man coverage.

Like I noted in his game against Clemson, I have question marks about Conley's ability to stay in phase from press man on deep routes against NFL talent. Fuller presents a different challenge than Mike Williams. Fuller gets a couple steps on Conley. This happened at least twice in this game but I only captured the GIF below for this post.

Ideally, if a player can't straight up match speed with a guy like Fuller (Conley is pretty fast, but he's not sub 4.4 fast), you'd like to see more hands at the line. Fuller has underrated quickness at the line and is able to get a clean break into his deep stem spelling trouble for the ill equipped Conley.

There are a couple plays I left out of bigger receivers beating Conley. Both Corey Robinson and Equanimeous St. Brown tested Conley's ability to gain leverage against them. Conley has good length with 33" arms, but he rarely shows it with bigger guys gaining position on him.

While Conley's lack of strength often shows up when tackling, it also shows up in coverage. Conley needs to do a better job beating receivers to the spot in plays like this.


This is another example of Conley's strength in man-on-man underneath coverage. Fuller stems and even fakes like he's going deep, but Conley is able to match him step-for-step underneath. He gets his hands on late, but he stays out of penalty land.

This last play is probably the worst of his career. Throughout the matchup with Fuller, Conley held his own thanks to a couple of overthrows from Kizer. If anything, this play articulates Conley's need to take better angles in the run game - especially in the open field when the stakes are higher.

Conley is playing deep 3rd again here and he stays overtop like he should, but this tackle attempt is unacceptable. Fuller offers no fake but a simply turn inside.

The Notre Dame game is probably the worst of Conley's career and there is some evidence he grew over the summer between this game and the 2016 season. Still, the persistent question marks about Conley maintaining position against bigger receivers and keeping stride from press man remain.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 7991
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, he doesn't have elite deep speed. His biggest problem is his inability to jam. It's hilarious because his technique is so bad, but he's still in pretty good position most of the time. Definitely something to work on, but if he coaches it up he can be really good.
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Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8683
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Rich, he doesn't have elite deep speed. His biggest problem is his inability to jam. It's hilarious because his technique is so bad, but he's still in pretty good position most of the time. Definitely something to work on, but if he coaches it up he can be really good.
Didn't want to quote Rich train. Sorry but that last one Conley took a step outside and Fuller turned it inside then turned on the burners, I don't know if I call that a weak tackle attempt. Plus alot of this is from a year ago, obviously he has grown as a player since then, albeit with work still to be done.
Just noticed you pointed that out
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attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1072
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
My synopsis from the Fiesta Bowl Notre Dame game for Conley:

Conley lined up primarily as the LCB and played a mix of man and zone - not too different from his 2016 tape. Notre Dame provided a unique challenge for Conley because he saw quite a bit of Will Fuller - though the narrative of this game was Fuller was hampered by a bum ankle.

Despite rumors of Fuller's injury, Conley played him as though he was at full strength.

Here we see Conley playing what looks like deep 3rd. He does a good job coming off his bail technique and making the tackle on Fuller. This is just of the offense and defense draws it up on 1st and 10.

This next play has Conley lined up again against Fuller, but in man coverage. This is a good example of how Conley can flip his hips on two way go's.

Fuller stems his slant as if he's running a go route, but Conley stays step-for-step with him underneath. Kizer doesn't look his way. This play articulates the hope Conley has the wherewithal to play on the inside. I have my doubts, but it does show his upside in man coverage.

Like I noted in his game against Clemson, I have question marks about Conley's ability to stay in phase from press man on deep routes against NFL talent. Fuller presents a different challenge than Mike Williams. Fuller gets a couple steps on Conley. This happened at least twice in this game but I only captured the GIF below for this post.

Ideally, if a player can't straight up match speed with a guy like Fuller (Conley is pretty fast, but he's not sub 4.4 fast), you'd like to see more hands at the line. Fuller has underrated quickness at the line and is able to get a clean break into his deep stem spelling trouble for the ill equipped Conley.

There are a couple plays I left out of bigger receivers beating Conley. Both Corey Robinson and Equanimeous St. Brown tested Conley's ability to gain leverage against them. Conley has good length with 33" arms, but he rarely shows it with bigger guys gaining position on him.

While Conley's lack of strength often shows up when tackling, it also shows up in coverage. Conley needs to do a better job beating receivers to the spot in plays like this.


This is another example of Conley's strength in man-on-man underneath coverage. Fuller stems and even fakes like he's going deep, but Conley is able to match him step-for-step underneath. He gets his hands on late, but he stays out of penalty land.

This last play is probably the worst of his career. Throughout the matchup with Fuller, Conley held his own thanks to a couple of overthrows from Kizer. If anything, this play articulates Conley's need to take better angles in the run game - especially in the open field when the stakes are higher.

Conley is playing deep 3rd again here and he stays overtop like he should, but this tackle attempt is unacceptable. Fuller offers no fake but a simply turn inside.

The Notre Dame game is probably the worst of Conley's career and there is some evidence he grew over the summer between this game and the 2016 season. Still, the persistent question marks about Conley maintaining position against bigger receivers and keeping stride from press man remain.


Great post dude. You should do a thread on how to make/post gifs on here - adds a lot to your points.

I don't want to make excuses for Conley b/c he's our 1st round pick and especially that last one was just a bad play that as a corner he's gotta make.

What I will say is that fuller is one of the best burners at the NFL level. His speed is elite and his game revolves around the fact that you've always gotta worry about the deep ball. There is no one in the NFL that can run deep with him in press man - you've either gotta give a big cushion or keep a safety over the top. 4.4 is plenty fast for a corner and the vast majority of receivers aren't running sub 4.4s either. Fuller is an exception not the norm. If Conley was a 4.6 guy I'd be concerned that he's always at risk of getting burnt - fuller/cooks/Ross I can live with as freak speed we've gotta game plan for.

What I really like about Conley is his feet and ball skills. He loses almost nothing when he has to flip his hips and he's got a really good break on routes when he gets to move downhill. He's also got special ball skills where he can get his head turned playing on an island. Most guys can't do that. Most guys will get caught watching the qb or can't get their head turned when they are in position.

Those are things that are really hard to teach and I think with refinement it's the foundation for an elite corner that can do things not many guys can.
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