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Giants select Evan Engram with 23rd Pick
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IbleedBLUE24


Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 672
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
^ I think that's called confirmation bias Wink

I like what I saw from Njoku on the field and would like that pick as well. I can't speak for either player's characters personally, but after reading some quotes from Engram he seems like a well spoken and intelligent person. That is further affirmed by the fact that he was 2 time team captain. I also read somewhere that Mayock called him one of the smartest players in the draft - though I can't seem to locate that quote now.


Could be a little bit, but the video's are what threw me off. I wanted OBJ and jumped up and down screaming like a little girl (I was single and alone at home, don't judge me) when they took him. Going into year 4 still happy, but OBJ he's way more diva than I like. I would like for him to be less showy (might actually get some of the calls he deserved if he just stop talking...). Njoku would have likely had me more excited, but Engram isn't a selection fans should be upset with. Engram seemed more poised/humble. I like that character trait. Glad to hear everything you just said about him as that speaks to a high quality character. Should be a good weapon.
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minutemancl


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 14596
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
^ I think that's called confirmation bias Wink

I like what I saw from Njoku on the field and would like that pick as well. I can't speak for either player's characters personally, but after reading some quotes from Engram he seems like a well spoken and intelligent person. That is further affirmed by the fact that he was 2 time team captain. I also read somewhere that Mayock called him one of the smartest players in the draft - though I can't seem to locate that quote now.


Mayock repeatedly called him very smart, and the info I found validates that. 25 on the wonderlic I believe. He checks all the mental and character boxes, which I'm sure factored into the pick.

He's not just fast, he's incredibly athletic. He makes those one handed acrobatic catches like Odell and Marshall do. Every scout's analysis of Engram has been "Jordan Reed but faster"
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Kodaraw


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 1502
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
Gmen wrote:
^ I think that's called confirmation bias Wink

I like what I saw from Njoku on the field and would like that pick as well. I can't speak for either player's characters personally, but after reading some quotes from Engram he seems like a well spoken and intelligent person. That is further affirmed by the fact that he was 2 time team captain. I also read somewhere that Mayock called him one of the smartest players in the draft - though I can't seem to locate that quote now.


Mayock repeatedly called him very smart, and the info I found validates that. 25 on the wonderlic I believe. He checks all the mental and character boxes, which I'm sure factored into the pick.

He's not just fast, he's incredibly athletic. He makes those one handed acrobatic catches like Odell and Marshall do. Every scout's analysis of Engram has been "Jordan Reed but faster"


Lets just hope he doesn't develop the concussion issues like Reed.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.
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njLawman5016


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kodaraw wrote:
njLawman5016 wrote:
Howard was three picks away and now they do this.

Not happy


I wouldn't have traded either. There was good talent left. Was a brutal stretch, though.


My initial post was frustration. Some good observers have found that Engram may actually be a better and more immediate fit for us. I am better with it now.
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njLawman5016


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.


Sorry, but everything I am seeing says that coming out they were nearly identical:

Reed slightly slower by about .12 and heavier by about 10 pounds.

Engram known for route running and smarts. Has some hands issues, so hopefully that is corrected.

If engram turns out to be close to Reed, I will take it.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

njLawman5016 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.


Sorry, but everything I am seeing says that coming out they were nearly identical:

Reed slightly slower by about .12 and heavier by about 10 pounds.

Engram known for route running and smarts. Has some hands issues, so hopefully that is corrected.

If engram turns out to be close to Reed, I will take it.


I mean, yes I already said they are comparable size wise.

I do not think he is in Reed's class as a route-runner.

But yea, I still think he's gonna be a good player. I just wouldn't expect him to be a Reed clone if I were you guys.
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Kodaraw


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 1502
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
njLawman5016 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.


Sorry, but everything I am seeing says that coming out they were nearly identical:

Reed slightly slower by about .12 and heavier by about 10 pounds.

Engram known for route running and smarts. Has some hands issues, so hopefully that is corrected.

If engram turns out to be close to Reed, I will take it.


I mean, yes I already said they are comparable size wise.

I do not think he is in Reed's class as a route-runner.

But yea, I still think he's gonna be a good player. I just wouldn't expect him to be a Reed clone if I were you guys.


His combine 40 was .3 seconds faster than Reeds. Engram has been praised for his routes. FWIW, Reed didn't have perfect routes coming out of college and had a limited route tree. Engram will be fine
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kodaraw wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
njLawman5016 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.


Sorry, but everything I am seeing says that coming out they were nearly identical:

Reed slightly slower by about .12 and heavier by about 10 pounds.

Engram known for route running and smarts. Has some hands issues, so hopefully that is corrected.

If engram turns out to be close to Reed, I will take it.


I mean, yes I already said they are comparable size wise.

I do not think he is in Reed's class as a route-runner.

But yea, I still think he's gonna be a good player. I just wouldn't expect him to be a Reed clone if I were you guys.


His combine 40 was .3 seconds faster than Reeds. Engram has been praised for his routes. FWIW, Reed didn't have perfect routes coming out of college and had a limited route tree. Engram will be fine


Man, I don't know how much more clear I can be. Running routes has nothing to do with 40 speed. What do you think Antonio Brown's 40 was?

I never said Reed had "perfect" routes either. Just that he was a better route runner than Engram.
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ApeDosMatt


Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 156
Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevesmith12 wrote:
ApeDosMatt wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
Two deep safety looks completely shut down our offense last year. Look at the Packers games. That won't be the case this year with Engram on the team. He'll feast on 2 deep safety looks. Instantly better on offense. And look at the DBs in the rest of the NFC East. Who can cover these guys?

Cover soft over the middle youre burned by Engram. Bring the safeties up and press and Eli's going over you to Marshall or Beckham. Need a quick slant through a normal zone or a hook route? Shepard is right there. There's no way to cover this offense other than getting to Eli
And thats the issue. Getting to Eli has been easy because we have neglected to improve the most important area on offense for too long.

Unless they think the O-Line is improve internally. We will likely have similar issues next year and not be able to take full advantage of the skill positions.

The Oline isn't as bad as we think, it's really just Flowers. This Giants team is not looking to run the ball, this offseason has made that pretty clear. They have the defense to make the stops and a home run or two wins the game. Sure I'd love a good running game for certain 4 minute situations, but I think this team excepts to be up by enough points to not have to worry about that. If Eli can get the ball at fast, accurately, and with zip which I have full confidence with this offense will be scary. Imagine if Eli gets his pocket presence back. Game over

If Bereen stays healthy and can catch some screens on third down and Perkins can rip a through first downs when they count, stopping this offense will be next to impossible
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mattbags2313


Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 2602
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Kodaraw wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
njLawman5016 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.


Sorry, but everything I am seeing says that coming out they were nearly identical:

Reed slightly slower by about .12 and heavier by about 10 pounds.

Engram known for route running and smarts. Has some hands issues, so hopefully that is corrected.

If engram turns out to be close to Reed, I will take it.


I mean, yes I already said they are comparable size wise.

I do not think he is in Reed's class as a route-runner.

But yea, I still think he's gonna be a good player. I just wouldn't expect him to be a Reed clone if I were you guys.


His combine 40 was .3 seconds faster than Reeds. Engram has been praised for his routes. FWIW, Reed didn't have perfect routes coming out of college and had a limited route tree. Engram will be fine


Man, I don't know how much more clear I can be. Running routes has nothing to do with 40 speed. What do you think Antonio Brown's 40 was?

I never said Reed had "perfect" routes either. Just that he was a better route runner than Engram.




Quote:
WEAKNESSES Fails to get over the face of the defensive end when reach blocking. Footwork is not consistent or sustained often enough when blocking, causes him to go to the ground. Posture can get too tall when attacking shoulder of opposition, loses positioning in that way. Needs better anticipation when asked to block at the second level. The type that turns and watches the play after the ball carrier runs past him. Route tree is limited, many or flare outs to the flats. Asked to sit down in soft areas. Hips can get too high when he is asked to run routes, not much exaggeration with head movement.
[/b]


NFL Jordan Reed scouting report...what were you saying about this routing running again?
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10605
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattbags2313 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Kodaraw wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
njLawman5016 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I like the pick for you guys and think Engram will be a good pro, but I think the comparisons to Reed are misplaced.

Jordan Reed is not a match-up nightmare because of his speed. He's a match-up nightmare because of his incredible route-running and his top notch hands (whether catching it with one hand or two, and doing it consistently).

Engram is a good route runner (though he has trouble selling his two-way routes sometimes), but I do not think he was on Reed's level when Reed was a prospect, and Engram has had issues with drops throughout his career, which I cannot recall Reed ever having.

They are both great at YAC, and they are both below average blockers. Other than being close to each other in size, I think that is where the comparisons should end.


Sorry, but everything I am seeing says that coming out they were nearly identical:

Reed slightly slower by about .12 and heavier by about 10 pounds.

Engram known for route running and smarts. Has some hands issues, so hopefully that is corrected.

If engram turns out to be close to Reed, I will take it.


I mean, yes I already said they are comparable size wise.

I do not think he is in Reed's class as a route-runner.

But yea, I still think he's gonna be a good player. I just wouldn't expect him to be a Reed clone if I were you guys.


His combine 40 was .3 seconds faster than Reeds. Engram has been praised for his routes. FWIW, Reed didn't have perfect routes coming out of college and had a limited route tree. Engram will be fine


Man, I don't know how much more clear I can be. Running routes has nothing to do with 40 speed. What do you think Antonio Brown's 40 was?

I never said Reed had "perfect" routes either. Just that he was a better route runner than Engram.




Quote:
WEAKNESSES Fails to get over the face of the defensive end when reach blocking. Footwork is not consistent or sustained often enough when blocking, causes him to go to the ground. Posture can get too tall when attacking shoulder of opposition, loses positioning in that way. Needs better anticipation when asked to block at the second level. The type that turns and watches the play after the ball carrier runs past him. Route tree is limited, many or flare outs to the flats. Asked to sit down in soft areas. Hips can get too high when he is asked to run routes, not much exaggeration with head movement.
[/b]


NFL Jordan Reed scouting report...what were you saying about this routing running again?


I was saying that he was a better route runner than Engram. Which is what I'm still saying.

Quote:
CBSSports.com: “Reed is a fluid and flexible athlete with smooth body control and controlled balance. He flashes WR moves after the catch with quick, elusive feet and deceiving speed to run away from defenders. Reed shows smooth athleticism in his routes, creating separation with sharp footwork and quick body movements. He has reliable hands and does a nice job holding onto the ball after a big hit, proving his ability and toughness over the middle of the field.”


"Limited route tree" does not equal "bad route runner" by the way. Which Reed proved with his route-running as a rookie.

Also, it's not like Engram ran complex routes either, so I'm not sure what your point is:

Quote:
A lack of size is the biggest question mark for Engram. Because he's 6'3" and 234 pounds, he’ll be considered by some teams as not a fit given their offensive system. Engram is not a blocker and should never be utilized as an in-line player. As for route running, the Ole Miss system was simplistic and did not allow him to develop as a technician. Engram can get beat up in the middle of the field, and his lack of bulk can be a negative in traffic. He'll likely have a wide range of draft grades, with some teams potentially valuing him much higher than others because of fit.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2687977-nfl-draft-400-ranking-the-drafts-top-tes

Quote:

The debate with Engram is what position he will play in the NFL. As a blocker, he delivers a pop at the point of attack and isn't shy about aggressively mixing things up, but he lacks the bulk or power to consistently hold up inline. Engram isn't asked to run a diverse route tree in the Rebels' offense and needs considerable work on the details to avoid tipping his path.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/top-nfl-draft-prospects-receiver-or-tight-end-engram-is-simply-a-playmaker/

Quote:
Engram ran a very limited route tree at Ole Miss. He relied on his speed to get open and it worked for him in college, but at the next level he’ll have to add some moves, shoulder/head fakes to his routes to get open. His speed will undoubtedly get him separation, but against better defenders these nuances are vital.


https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/raiders/possible-raiders-draft-target-evan-engram/
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redsoxsuck05


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How was Reed a better prospect than Engram? He went in the 3rd round!

Don't get me wrong I would love it if Engram was Reed 2.0. Even if he doesn't run routes that are as crisp his superior speed can compensate in certain ways.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redsoxsuck05 wrote:
How was Reed a better prospect than Engram? He went in the 3rd round!

Don't get me wrong I would love it if Engram was Reed 2.0. Even if he doesn't run routes that are as crisp his superior speed can compensate in certain ways.


Who said Reed was a better prospect than Engram? Rolling Eyes

Attitude issues, injury concerns, and his lack of experience at TE were the main things that pushed him down by the way, not his talent.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again guys, I'm not hating on the pick. I thought it was a really smart selection for you guys. I just thought the comments about him being a faster Reed were off.
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