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Kirk Cousins...No Long Term Deal...Discuss
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
For all of those who said Kirk and his agent should have countered, consider this:

It's a contract negotiation. The Redskins offered something at the bottom of the barrel to set the floor for them to come up from. Most likely, had they chosen to offer, Kirk and his agent would have offered a high contract to set the ceiling from them to come down from.

Had they offered that ceiling contract, do any of you believe for one second that the Redskins would not have leaked that counter to the press in a heart beat? They tried to spike him after the deadline was over. You don't think they would have said "well, he was asking for this pie-in-the-sky deal, and we couldn't do that and he never came down from it?"

C'mon now. They're sewer rats.
Maybe, but since Kirk's team didn't offer it just showed that at least at this time he doesn't want to be here. He's said as much, he's willing to play on the franchise tag and asses how this season goes with Jay, Matt & Kevin and see if the D & running game can improve as well as how the front office is performing before signing here long term.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
For all of those who said Kirk and his agent should have countered, consider this:

It's a contract negotiation. The Redskins offered something at the bottom of the barrel to set the floor for them to come up from. Most likely, had they chosen to offer, Kirk and his agent would have offered a high contract to set the ceiling from them to come down from.

Had they offered that ceiling contract, do any of you believe for one second that the Redskins would not have leaked that counter to the press in a heart beat? They tried to spike him after the deadline was over. You don't think they would have said "well, he was asking for this pie-in-the-sky deal, and we couldn't do that and he never came down from it?"

C'mon now. They're sewer rats.
Maybe, but since Kirk's team didn't offer it just showed that at least at this time he doesn't want to be here. He's said as much, he's willing to play on the franchise tag and asses how this season goes with Jay, Matt & Kevin and see if the D & running game can improve as well as how the front office is performing before signing here long term.


Why offer this year when you saw that they didn't take your offer serious last year? Once Kirk's team saw what the opening offer was, they probably said "we can counter, but they're still trying to lowball you. Are you comfortable riding it out?"

I just don't get what the front office is playing at. Barring injury, Kirk will almost invariably take over 5th all time career passing for the Redskins after the home opener against the Eagles (only needs 240 yards to bypass Kilmer), and likely will take over 4th all time by the end of the season (needs 3816 yards to get past Rypien). Only guys above him at that point are Baugh (9774 more yards), Jurgensen (10473 more yards), and Theismann (13094 more yards).

I would point out all five gentlemen above him at this point are inductees to the Ring of Fame.

(yes, turtle, I realize I might be preaching to the choir here)
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
For all of those who said Kirk and his agent should have countered, consider this:

It's a contract negotiation. The Redskins offered something at the bottom of the barrel to set the floor for them to come up from. Most likely, had they chosen to offer, Kirk and his agent would have offered a high contract to set the ceiling from them to come down from.

Had they offered that ceiling contract, do any of you believe for one second that the Redskins would not have leaked that counter to the press in a heart beat? They tried to spike him after the deadline was over. You don't think they would have said "well, he was asking for this pie-in-the-sky deal, and we couldn't do that and he never came down from it?"

C'mon now. They're sewer rats.
Maybe, but since Kirk's team didn't offer it just showed that at least at this time he doesn't want to be here. He's said as much, he's willing to play on the franchise tag and asses how this season goes with Jay, Matt & Kevin and see if the D & running game can improve as well as how the front office is performing before signing here long term.


Why offer this year when you saw that they didn't take your offer serious last year? Once Kirk's team saw what the opening offer was, they probably said "we can counter, but they're still trying to lowball you. Are you comfortable riding it out?"

I just don't get what the front office is playing at. Barring injury, Kirk will almost invariably take over 5th all time career passing for the Redskins after the home opener against the Eagles (only needs 240 yards to bypass Kilmer), and likely will take over 4th all time by the end of the season (needs 3816 yards to get past Rypien). Only guys above him at that point are Baugh (9774 more yards), Jurgensen (10473 more yards), and Theismann (13094 more yards).

I would point out all five gentlemen above him at this point are inductees to the Ring of Fame.

(yes, turtle, I realize I might be preaching to the choir here)


This is what I'm talking about. I was once in a contract negotiation where the other party lowballed me so much, I just walked out of the building. This was the best "counter offer" I could provide.

I guarantee you that before FA, Kirk's agent told the Redskins what Kirk was looking for (pretty much what every good agent would do and Kirk's agent is one of the best). And for the Redskins to lowball him...again...speaks volumes as to why nothing happened after May.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this is what Bruce is thinking Think

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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Maybe this is what Bruce is thinking Think

Allen maybe, but more likely Shaffer knew this and came up with the plan.

I did feel that they had this in mind all along, it's why they weren't ovee aggressive, on top of the fact that Kirk's team hasn't been that aggressive to get a deal done either since it didn't happen after the 2015 season.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem though is that it's all relative. Free agents will be commanding higher contracts next year than they did this year because of the cap escalation. That means, relative to other teams, we stay the same with our cap situation (ex QB), while other teams have more cash to spend.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
The problem though is that it's all relative. Free agents will be commanding higher contracts next year than they did this year because of the cap escalation. That means, relative to other teams, we stay the same with our cap situation (ex QB), while other teams have more cash to spend.
While true for some teams that aren't paying for a franchise qb and probably only have an average or above average Qb, many teams are paying in the 20 million range for their qb.

There's no doubt we need to get a long term deal done so this isn't even an issue but I'm still in the camp of keeping Kirk as long as can as we continue to prepare his back ups for the day when he's gone.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
The problem though is that it's all relative. Free agents will be commanding higher contracts next year than they did this year because of the cap escalation. That means, relative to other teams, we stay the same with our cap situation (ex QB), while other teams have more cash to spend.
While true for some teams that aren't paying for a franchise qb and probably only have an average or above average Qb, many teams are paying in the 20 million range for their qb.

There's no doubt we need to get a long term deal done so this isn't even an issue but I'm still in the camp of keeping Kirk as long as can as we continue to prepare his back ups for the day when he's gone.


Big difference between 20 million range and 34 million.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Maybe this is what Bruce is thinking Think

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFcUO01XgAASfkj.jpg[img]
Allen maybe, but more likely Shaffer knew this and came up with the plan.

I did feel that they had this in mind all along, it's why they weren't ovee aggressive, on top of the fact that Kirk's team hasn't been that aggressive to get a deal done either since it didn't happen after the 2015 season.


This has nothing to do with money. This is about the poisonous culture that Snyder and Allen have created within the franchise. Cousins is looking at everything that has happened and saying, why the hell do I want to stay here?

The Redskins have ZERO leverage in this situation. If they want to sign someone, they will have to drastically overpay for the forseeable future
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
The problem though is that it's all relative. Free agents will be commanding higher contracts next year than they did this year because of the cap escalation. That means, relative to other teams, we stay the same with our cap situation (ex QB), while other teams have more cash to spend.
While true for some teams that aren't paying for a franchise qb and probably only have an average or above average Qb, many teams are paying in the 20 million range for their qb.

There's no doubt we need to get a long term deal done so this isn't even an issue but I'm still in the camp of keeping Kirk as long as can as we continue to prepare his back ups for the day when he's gone.


Big difference between 20 million range and 34 million.


It's about a six percent difference in total cap space.

But you bring up a good point. Everyone thinks that because the cap is going up that the team will be able to absorb Cousins' increasingly larger cap hit. This is not the case. Every other player is going to be looking for more money.

That offensive lineman that cost you 2.3 million in 2016 is going to cost you 2.8 million in 2018. That very good linebacker that would have cost you 7 million a year in 2016 will cost you 8.5 million in 2018. Everyone is going to want a bigger piece of the pie. That's why the players union fought so hard to get the cap raised.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
The problem though is that it's all relative. Free agents will be commanding higher contracts next year than they did this year because of the cap escalation. That means, relative to other teams, we stay the same with our cap situation (ex QB), while other teams have more cash to spend.
While true for some teams that aren't paying for a franchise qb and probably only have an average or above average Qb, many teams are paying in the 20 million range for their qb.

There's no doubt we need to get a long term deal done so this isn't even an issue but I'm still in the camp of keeping Kirk as long as can as we continue to prepare his back ups for the day when he's gone.


Big difference between 20 million range and 34 million.
Sure is but we have to remember that guys like DHall, Lauvao & others will come off the payroll and replace by younger players. Heck, they may be off our roster this year depending upon what the young guys do this year.

It's totally possible that Kouandjio beats out Lauvao or at least is equal - which imo he about is already - and the only way Lauvao can stay is by taking a DHall type pt cut to be a back up to Kouandjio and Scherff with Roullier being Long's back up.

Next draft we'll probably draft another guard and RT in rounds 2-5. I'm afraid this is going to be Nsekhe's last year in DC unless he becomes our starting LG - which I still wish we'd try - because Nsekh can start for other teams at either tackle spot.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

‪One insider reveals the long-term contract Redskins should have offered Kirk Cousins https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/one-insider-reveals-the-long-term-contract-redskins-should-have-offered-kirk-cousins/‬

Quote:
I've spoken to a number of NFL execs and agents over the last week -- none of them with a vested interest in this outcome (ahem, no brass from the 49ers or Rams, teams who could be lining up with open checkbooks for Cousins in March) -- and all remain dumbfounded at how Washington handled their business with the most productive quarterback the franchise has had in decades. There was a deal to be done here; it didn't have to go down this way.

One agent I highly respect -- not a household name from a big agency, but someone who has quietly built a thriving business and strong reputation with NFL execs -- took an hour at his own volition while he was on vacation to try to solve the riddle. He'd sat in his office and concocted an offer sheet that he believes would have kept Washington far from salary-cap hell, and satisfied the quarterback's desires at the same time.

I didn't put him up to it, but when he called me during my vacation and ran through the numbers with me, I was running to grab a pen and begin scribbling. It seemed to me to be what I, erroneously, expected Washington to do at the deadline: give Cousins, who turns 29 in August, a deal with sufficient guaranteed money to give him pause and take the bird in hand, rather than playing on the tag another year.

"It was simple math and a thinking outside-of-the-box strategy," the agent who created this offer sheet told me. "I said to myself, 'What kind of deal would be almost impossible for the player to turn down from an overall cash, cash-flow, overall APY and the ever-important new money totals / APY?' This is what I came up with .... It may seem abstract but would have been a great deal for all parties involved for this particular player, position and situation."

So, here's what he came up with. How about a nine-year, $210.25 million contract with team flexibility that could end up being as short as three years for $83.25 million, or amount to six years at $150.50 million depending on if or when Washington wanted to move on from the quarterback down the line? Yeah, it got me thinking too.

I found it an incredibly intriguing approach, to say the least, and one that would have at least prompted meaningful dialogue between the sides, I imagine. I massaged a few details to make it easier to follow the proposal and made one slight change, to come up with this breakdown.
Follow us here:

In 2017, Cousins would make $40 million, via a $35 million signing bonus and $5 million base salary (that bonus is prorated at $7 million per year for cap purposes over five seasons). So you are putting $35 million in Cousins' hand at the time of signing, instead of him earning $24 million through the course of 17 game checks from September through January.

In 2018, he'd earn $15.5 million, fully guaranteed at signing, with Washington having the option to convert his base salary into a signing bonus to provide further cap relief.

In 2019, Cousins would have a $7.75 million base salary with a $20 million roster bonus guaranteed for injury at the time of signing and becoming fully guaranteed if he's on the roster on the fifth day of the 2018 League Year (next March).

At this point, you have virtually guaranteed Cousins $83.25 million at the time of signing. So you've taken that $24 million he already had in hand for 2017, and that $28 million (transition tag) or $35 million (franchise tag) he virtually had in hand for 2018, and added an additional $28 million. To make it even more clear, you are now guaranteeing $59.31 million to Cousins on top of the $24 million he's already banked for this season. That would get his attention.

As the agent astutely points out, "the equivalent of $59,306,400 in new money over the 2017 franchise tag number ($23.94 million) is a new money APY of $29,653,300 per year." So Cousins can indeed gain a strong measure of bragging rights among other QB deals, but as you'll see Washington remains covered on the back side and in a flexible cap situation.

In 2020, he'd earn $23 million (which again can be prorated to a signing bonus for cap purposes.

In 2021 & 2022 he'd earn a base salary of $22 million.


If we stop here, it's basically a six-year, $160 million deal. It seems like a lot, and I suppose it is, but think about how quickly Aaron Rodgers and Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan and others will be leapfrogging it. Consider all the hundreds of millions in franchise relocation fees rolling in and all the new money that will be coming in when the TV deals are redone in a few years, and also the fact that a new CBA will have been negotiated as well by the middle of this deal (one that might include even more cap relief for quarterbacks or some other such mechanism as well).
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all know I like to come at things a bit differently- (talking about the same thing over and over is kind if like only doing missionary position and missionary position)

So What if I told you the Redskins have an opportunity to do something pretty unique?

We have a chance to save our 25-30 million or more a year, get a quarterback that has four championships and a career QB rating of 104 with a TD to interception rate of 397 to 99. He is just a bit older, only 6 years older than the oldest quarterback to start in the NFL, but only 2 years older than the oldest backup to play QB in the NFL. Lets name Jay as our coacy and QB and be the first player coach in the NFL since Dan Reeves. The Marketing guys at Redskins park can go crazy and promote the Bill Russell era of player coach, how this is making history, and make it a spectacle that people may be interested in watching. Dim Snyder also saves a lot of money

Grucen is 50, Blanda played QB at 48 and Deberg started at 44. Brady may break these records, so lets jump in and give Gruden what he has always wanted- a chance to play in the NFL. He can call the plays, play quarterback and then after each loss he can bash himself for not doing a good job executing. It would be fun to watch.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Woody, a well respected writer for the Richmond paper has covered the Redskins for years . He wrote an article published Sunday that said trade Cousin NOW for whatever..Hopefully as high as a second round pick and sign Kaepernick.
I'm not a fan of Kaepernick but ---he's completed 60% of his passes and thrown 72 TD's vs. 30 interceptions ( Cousins is 72 vs 42 ). Maybe the QB Guru Gruden could make him a decent starter or at least battle McCoy for the position.
I'd do it to get rid of this cloud just hanging over the team.. It's not going to end well anyway so let's just cut our losses. ( plus we do save the $$$$ and cap space )
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Paul Woody, a well respected writer for the Richmond paper has covered the Redskins for years . He wrote an article published Sunday that said trade Cousin NOW for whatever..Hopefully as high as a second round pick and sign Kaepernick.

I'm not a fan of Kaepernick but ---he's completed 60% of his passes and thrown 72 TD's vs. 30 interceptions ( Cousins is 72 vs 42 ). Maybe the QB Guru Gruden could make him a decent starter or at least battle McCoy for the position.

I'd do it to get rid of this cloud just hanging over the team.. It's not going to end well anyway so let's just cut our losses. ( plus we do save the $$$$ and cap space )
Crap, if they're going to do that they might as well sign RG3. Kapernick is just a bigger version of RG3.

Whomever Mr. Woody is, he should be fired immediately.
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