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#2...QB...Mitch Trubisky...North Carolina
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wiscbearsfan


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a lack of faith in the entire organization including Pace. I'm not yet willing to say that last years draft is truly great until we see how players continue to play moving forward. You can't judge a draft (good or bad) for several seasons.

That's also why that list of recent high QB picks is a place where we greatly differ opinion wise. The jury is very much still out on a bunch of those players. Some are simply not good enough or downright bad. At one point I would have said Luck was elite but I'm not even sure that's true anymore.

I understand fully how bad the Bears QB situation has been. I have vivid memories of Super Bowl XX and am familiar with pretty much everything that's gone on since that era.

I sure hope a bunch of you guys are right about last years draft and about Trubisky. I'm just no longer willing to give the Bears the benefit of the doubt. I've been burned too many times.
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bearsfan323


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
CSN Chicago

Quote:

Two AFC scouts revealed that they had the highest grade on Trubisky that they’d had on any quarterback over the past six years. That means: higher than Jameis Winston; higher than Marcus Mariota; higher than Cam Newton; higher than Russell Wilson; higher than Andrew Luck; higher than Derek Carr; higher than Carson Wentz.


The evaluation of one NFC regional scouting team was that “Trubisky is an almost perfect quarterback prospect” and that 'the Bears should count their lucky stars he only started 13 games because if he was a two-year starter, he goes 1/1 [overall No. 1] without hesitation.”

I hate when journalistic/media websites use the semicolon incorrectly
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Heinz D.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiscbearsfan wrote:
When they hired Ryan Pace I was once again extremely optimistic that the right kind of change was taking place but he quickly lost my faith based upon his various draft picks and free agency moves. Please show me the great moves Ryan Pace has made. And in light of this preceding discussion you have to completely omit the drafting of Jordan Howard from your examples. Why? Because every single person who is supportive of the trade and pick of Trubisky repeatedly justifies the pick based upon the fact they only gave up 3rd and 4th round picks. I keep seeing those picks discounted entirely by people who want to write them off as inconsequential. Well you don't get it both ways. They are either unimportant or they matter. So leave Jordan Howard out of this and tell me what Ryan Pace has done well so far in his tenancy as GM.

As Superman(DH23) pointed out, no one is ignoring the importance of the picks, merely stressing the importance of a good QB. I can't say with any degree of confidence that Pace has set the world on fire so far, but he did come in with the task of completely overhauling the roster, and has made some very good picks, outside of Howard. Some picks that look kind of fishy now could end up being good ones, too. Amos could bounce back from a subpar second season, for example.

wiscbearsfan wrote:
I want Mitch Trubisky to be a superstar. I truly do, because I'm sick of the Bears being a complete and utter joke of a franchise. This draft strategy is essentially all or nothing. If Trubisky is a hit then all they need to do is pit the rest of the team around him (which I have little faith in them being able to do either) or he's a miss and the Bears continue to suck for a decade.

A decade? Yeah, pretty close. Pace has a minimum of 3 years now for Trubisky to pan out but I could easily see him showing flashes and Pace being given more time. But if they pull the plug on him then you are probably another 3-4 years away as you "rebuild" yet again.

I do understand your trepidation with all that, but there's a cool aspect to all this you're leaving out--they have Glennon. And he could turn out to be pretty good. Which means they can dump Trubisky if need be (which I think is highly unlikely, but still), or flip Glennon for a pick, or picks. And all they had to do there was simply sign Glennon.
And as long as Pace builds the team well, it doesn't have to be another decade, either. I can see a mid-round QB as insurance next year, too.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-bears/just-day-1-minicamp-did-bears-coaches-see-what-they-needed-qb-mitch-trubisky

Quote:
Two AFC scouts revealed that they had the highest grade on Trubisky that they’d had on any quarterback over the past six years. That means: higher than Jameis Winston; higher than Marcus Mariota; higher than Cam Newton; higher than Russell Wilson; higher than Andrew Luck; higher than Derek Carr; higher than Carson Wentz.

The evaluation of one NFC regional scouting team was that “Trubisky is an almost perfect quarterback prospect” and that 'the Bears should count their lucky stars he only started 13 games because if he was a two-year starter, he goes 1/1 [overall No. 1] without hesitation.”

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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been watching most of Trubisky's games from 2016 and I think the most interesting by far is against Pitt...I reckon this could have been the game that convinced us to make that move to 100% make sure we were going to be able to draft him...you can see why he's not NFL ready from day one...any secondary blitz or overload he doesn't see or adjust for...but in terms of arm talent he makes some throws in that game that are as good as you are going to see...he puts his guys in a position to win when their locked up in man coverage...he makes beautiful throws on crucial downs with the game on the line bringing them from behind for the win...you see the athletic ability to escape one on one pressure...you see the competitiveness and leadership you need from a QB in big situations...if and it's a big if...we can be patient with him and develop him the right way we could really be on to something here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE_OKBiSBBs
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think it is important to see what a QB does when they are not in a groove and when things are not going well.

Adversity is a huge part of the NFL. Punch, counter punch.

I heard someone make an interesting point about Josh Allen and the fact that he played 1 Power 5 team, Nebraska, who kind of sucks and he threw 5 INTs and imploded the entire game. Trubisky does not have that game on his resume which to me is a positive.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I also think it is important to see what a QB does when they are not in a groove and when things are not going well.

Adversity is a huge part of the NFL. Punch, counter punch.

I heard someone make an interesting point about Josh Allen and the fact that he played 1 Power 5 team, Nebraska, who kind of sucks and he threw 5 INTs and imploded the entire game. Trubisky does not have that game on his resume which to me is a positive.


If you can't win tight games you can't win games in the NFL because 85% are going to be close...for me the Pitt game shows he can keep his head in those types of games...

I think that ability is the only reason Watson went in the 1st.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
I also think it is important to see what a QB does when they are not in a groove and when things are not going well.

Adversity is a huge part of the NFL. Punch, counter punch.

I heard someone make an interesting point about Josh Allen and the fact that he played 1 Power 5 team, Nebraska, who kind of sucks and he threw 5 INTs and imploded the entire game. Trubisky does not have that game on his resume which to me is a positive.


If you can't win tight games you can't win games in the NFL because 85% are going to be close...for me the Pitt game shows he can keep his head in those types of games...

I think that ability is the only reason Watson went in the 1st.


You are probably right about Watson.

I think the more and more we hear the NFL was really high on Trubisky. There was a rumour that the team trading to 2 was NO and they were after Trubisky and then they were waiting for Mahomes and he got snatched. It was also telling to me that they passed on Watson.
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Heinz D.


Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I think the more and more we hear the NFL was really high on Trubisky. There was a rumour that the team trading to 2 was NO and they were after Trubisky and then they were waiting for Mahomes and he got snatched. It was also telling to me that they passed on Watson.

Yeah...a lot of folks were not sold on Watson. That's pretty clear, now. And I guess I get it--people feel that accuracy issues, of that kind, will not be worked out at the next level. And I suppose theyre right about that, by and large.
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wiscbearsfan


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heinz D. wrote:
wiscbearsfan wrote:
When they hired Ryan Pace I was once again extremely optimistic that the right kind of change was taking place but he quickly lost my faith based upon his various draft picks and free agency moves. Please show me the great moves Ryan Pace has made. And in light of this preceding discussion you have to completely omit the drafting of Jordan Howard from your examples. Why? Because every single person who is supportive of the trade and pick of Trubisky repeatedly justifies the pick based upon the fact they only gave up 3rd and 4th round picks. I keep seeing those picks discounted entirely by people who want to write them off as inconsequential. Well you don't get it both ways. They are either unimportant or they matter. So leave Jordan Howard out of this and tell me what Ryan Pace has done well so far in his tenancy as GM.

As Superman(DH23) pointed out, no one is ignoring the importance of the picks, merely stressing the importance of a good QB. I can't say with any degree of confidence that Pace has set the world on fire so far, but he did come in with the task of completely overhauling the roster, and has made some very good picks, outside of Howard. Some picks that look kind of fishy now could end up being good ones, too. Amos could bounce back from a subpar second season, for example.

wiscbearsfan wrote:
I want Mitch Trubisky to be a superstar. I truly do, because I'm sick of the Bears being a complete and utter joke of a franchise. This draft strategy is essentially all or nothing. If Trubisky is a hit then all they need to do is pit the rest of the team around him (which I have little faith in them being able to do either) or he's a miss and the Bears continue to suck for a decade.

A decade? Yeah, pretty close. Pace has a minimum of 3 years now for Trubisky to pan out but I could easily see him showing flashes and Pace being given more time. But if they pull the plug on him then you are probably another 3-4 years away as you "rebuild" yet again.

I do understand your trepidation with all that, but there's a cool aspect to all this you're leaving out--they have Glennon. And he could turn out to be pretty good. Which means they can dump Trubisky if need be (which I think is highly unlikely, but still), or flip Glennon for a pick, or picks. And all they had to do there was simply sign Glennon.
And as long as Pace builds the team well, it doesn't have to be another decade, either. I can see a mid-round QB as insurance next year, too.


I'm not leaving anything out about Glennon. He's just a guy. He was a short term stopgap regardless of who they picked. They paid market value for a guy that was slated to be their starter. He carries a small degree of upside. If miraculously he plays exceedingly well then it would be a nice bonus to be able to trade him instead of releasing him. But that's small potatoes stuff anyway. I'm concerned with big picture stuff and he's not really in the frame.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiscbearsfan wrote:
It's a lack of faith in the entire organization including Pace. I'm not yet willing to say that last years draft is truly great until we see how players continue to play moving forward. You can't judge a draft (good or bad) for several seasons.

That's also why that list of recent high QB picks is a place where we greatly differ opinion wise. The jury is very much still out on a bunch of those players. Some are simply not good enough or downright bad. At one point I would have said Luck was elite but I'm not even sure that's true anymore.

I understand fully how bad the Bears QB situation has been. I have vivid memories of Super Bowl XX and am familiar with pretty much everything that's gone on since that era.

I sure hope a bunch of you guys are right about last years draft and about Trubisky. I'm just no longer willing to give the Bears the benefit of the doubt. I've been burned too many times.


Wisc I'm not sure I'm following...on one hand you are saying that you can't judge a draft for several seasons yet then you go on to say that you have no faith in Pace because he has not shown much of anything in terms of talent acquisition in his 3 years on the job so far?

Talk about being a hypocrite or are you just being all pessimistic to get us all riled up and argue with you?

Anyhow, we all feel your pain as we have been waiting far too long to see this team get better and become relevant again. How about we give these guys a chance (management & players) before getting all pissy about it again?

Ownership is not changing, nor does it look like Sweaty Teddy is going anywhere any time soon so we can't really control that. What we can control is our faith and hopes that Pace is the right guy for the job. So far he has taken steps to improve this team. Only time will tell if it all pans out.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually think Pace's drafting is well above average

Building Block
Starter
Primary Back Up

2015

1. Kevin White
2. Eddie Goldman
3. Hroniss Grasu
4. Jeremy Langford
5. Adrian Amos

6. Tayo Fabajule
Cam Merdith
Bryce Callahan


2016

1. Leonard Floyd
2. Cody Whitehair

3. Jonathan Bullard
4. Nick Kwiatowski
4. Deon Bush
4. Deinodre Hall
5. Jordan Howard
6. Deandre Houston-Carson
7. Daniel Braverman
Cre'von Leblanc

15 picks

4-Building Block Players
3-Solid Starters
4-Contributing Back Ups
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Doug Farrar

Quote:
In the NFL, it's common sense that if the quarterback you want is available, you move heaven and earth to get him. But in Trubisky's case, there has to be some projection involved. He started just one season in college, completing 68 percent of his passes for 3,748 yards, 30 touchdowns and six interceptions in 2016. When you watch his tape, it's evident he has a way to go before he's ready for the NFL. His mechanics and field-reading are inconsistent, though he does show most of the tools you want in a top-tier NFL quarterback. He just has to overcome certain tendencies before it will be evident on a consistent basis


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2708738-nfl1000-after-huge-draft-investment-is-mitchell-trubisky-ready-to-start
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Heinz D.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I actually think Pace's drafting is well above average

Building Block
Starter
Primary Back Up

2015

1. Kevin White
2. Eddie Goldman
3. Hroniss Grasu
4. Jeremy Langford
5. Adrian Amos

6. Tayo Fabajule
Cam Merdith
Bryce Callahan


2016

1. Leonard Floyd
2. Cody Whitehair

3. Jonathan Bullard
4. Nick Kwiatowski
4. Deon Bush
4. Deinodre Hall
5. Jordan Howard
6. Deandre Houston-Carson
7. Daniel Braverman
Cre'von Leblanc

15 picks

4-Building Block Players
3-Solid Starters
4-Contributing Back Ups

The thing that sticks out to me, maybe the most, is Meredith, Callahan, and Leblanc. Three UDFAs in two years that end up being quality contributors. That's kind of nuts. And if Gentry sticks, and hits, (and I think he might), that'll make it four undrafted guys in three years. Impressive.
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wiscbearsfan


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
wiscbearsfan wrote:
It's a lack of faith in the entire organization including Pace. I'm not yet willing to say that last years draft is truly great until we see how players continue to play moving forward. You can't judge a draft (good or bad) for several seasons.

That's also why that list of recent high QB picks is a place where we greatly differ opinion wise. The jury is very much still out on a bunch of those players. Some are simply not good enough or downright bad. At one point I would have said Luck was elite but I'm not even sure that's true anymore.

I understand fully how bad the Bears QB situation has been. I have vivid memories of Super Bowl XX and am familiar with pretty much everything that's gone on since that era.

I sure hope a bunch of you guys are right about last years draft and about Trubisky. I'm just no longer willing to give the Bears the benefit of the doubt. I've been burned too many times.


Wisc I'm not sure I'm following...on one hand you are saying that you can't judge a draft for several seasons yet then you go on to say that you have no faith in Pace because he has not shown much of anything in terms of talent acquisition in his 3 years on the job so far?

Talk about being a hypocrite or are you just being all pessimistic to get us all riled up and argue with you?

Anyhow, we all feel your pain as we have been waiting far too long to see this team get better and become relevant again. How about we give these guys a chance (management & players) before getting all pissy about it again?

Ownership is not changing, nor does it look like Sweaty Teddy is going anywhere any time soon so we can't really control that. What we can control is our faith and hopes that Pace is the right guy for the job. So far he has taken steps to improve this team. Only time will tell if it all pans out.


I guess I'm just at the point where I have higher expectations and demand more from the organization. The Cubs and Blackhawks are excellent comparisons because both franchises were beyond horrible but were turned around and have become standard bearers.

Am I being a hypocrite? Maybe a touch. Yes, you need several years to judge a draft both for bad and good. I think the trigger for me is that I was on board with the Pace hire and everything he has had to say publicly but then I'm seeing enough red flags to make me think it's all a bunch of BS and that organizationally speaking its more of the same.

I'm probably not giving Pace enough of a chance but I'm not seeing the culture change that went on with the Blackhawks and Cubs. With the Bears I'm simply feeling like it's the same old song and dance.
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