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2017 NFL Draft Thread
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6952
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember talking with my father after our 1998 SB victory and Elways retirement.

Some rebuilding was required and we agreed one great way to do that would be to trade TD for draft picks. We could have gotten a pile.

Keep in mind, although he was arguably the best RB in the league he had a lot of miles on him, 3 years in a row with over 380 touches and two of those over 400.

My friends thought I was totally nuts, we kept him and his career basically ended in his 4th game the next season.

Point being as most of you have stated, RB's are short term contributors. There's the occasional exception but overall maintaining a continuous rollover at that position seems like the best way to go.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To be banned is predicated on violation of rules. While I applaud your lauding of Broncofan, you're clearly wanting elsewhere. I hv done nothing but state harsh facts and truth. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities but it dsnt violate forum rules. So as much as it may seem you wld like me banned, you'll just hv to hv a cigar or a fruit cake in the interim. Whatever floats your boat. I ain't going no where buddy. Smile


You literally called him a moron which is a clear violation of personal attacks.

Then to avoid confusion you said, right after, 'I am not mincing words' to push home the fact that you just called him a moron.

Am I missing something?
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 2749
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you are missing a whole lot.
I can call an idea moronic. That's not against forum rules. Would be if I called him a "moron" which I didn't. My law degree may not be paying off so much in the real world but on here I pretty much know how to dot the "I" and "Ts".
Cheers.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19487
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let it go guys. mke1010 hasn't violated any rules. If he, or anyone, does, Elliot will deal with them.

Move back to draft talk.
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big_palooka:

bhslinebacker wrote:
AAA is right, as he usually is.
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 2749
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAA, you always had the platitude of leadership. If only you didn't let emotion get in the way every so often u might actually be capable of being POTUS. LOL
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 2749
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite I frankly I'd rather hv u as POTUS than Trump but seeing as it is against forum rules to bring in politics, I concur. Let's get bk to strictly draft talk.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 2091
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched some more of Demarcus Walker since the draft...

He wins one way. Inside swim. He wins often though and he has perfected it. This raises concern but can also provide hope. The concern being that won't work very well in the NFL. The hope comes from he will be learning from some of the best pass rushers in the game. His dedication and honing of this one move imagine when he masters more at the next level. He is a raw senior. Not raw in a game and situational aspect or even a Production aspect but as far as raw pass rush moves. If he can succeed anywhere it's here. I don't know yet how I feel about him. I have hope but I also have the concern.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 13063
Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeMarcus Walker was one of the most fun players in college football the past two years, love his effort but I have a lot of concerns about how his game translates to the pros as an every down player. Denver was probably the best spot for him because he simply cannot win on the edge in the NFL. He wasn't consistently doing so even in college, but he was a complete mismatch inside. In a two-gap 3-4, he will not hold up physically inside and is nowhere near fluid enough to ever play LB. In a one-gap 3-4 like ours playing RE, his potential is probably maximized. As a situational inside rusher in the nickel with other pass rushing threats demanding attention around him, he has his best chance of succeeding. 3rd downs he will have one-on-one matchups going straight upfield and can put those hands to work. Those are the matchups he can win in the NFL. I understand the premise of that pick, they want to get that athletic mismatch inside the defense lost when Malik left. Just not sold on the player.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not convinced that Walker is unable to play NT in the mold of Jay Ratliff. He is stocky as hell and seems like he could put on 20+ lbs and still be a sub 5.0 40 type athlete.

Walker may not be the two-way, prototypical 34DE that Wolfe is, but he can be rotated all over the line. 34DE, 34NT, 43UT, 43DE. This team didn't have a chess piece on the DL and he gives us just that.

I do worry on his reliance with the inside swim though. That's all his highlights show. I would love to see his PFF advanced metrics on run stopping.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
I don't get why people say Elway could of traded down and still got one of the 3 tackles. Clearly he had Bolles ranked head and shoulders the other tackles. That's why he didn't trade down.

I think Oline was so devalued this draft that it was getting undervalued . I get theres no depth or blue chip guys. But at pick 20 Bolles has a highest ceiling of any left tackle recent memory taken that late in the first.


If Bolles is significantly better than Ramczyk or Robinson then no one will argue with Elway's pick. If the 2 others are the same, or better than Bolles, well, BF2010's point (which B67 was also outlining last night) can't be argued either. And if Foster is indeed a top 5 talent, a perennial All-Pro/Pro-Bowler, and miles ahead of Bolles, that's a miss. If Foster is just good, and on the same level (or lower) as Bolles, then Elway's justified to pass on Foster.

It's no lock either way, but the outcome being good or bad, while unknown, is very easy to track - how the 3 T's and Foster fare will determine the outcome of whether this was a good decision or not. And no one knows yet for sure. We'll know by mid-end 2018 season.


You can't just judge it by Foster you have to see how the draft unfilds who we get there could be better linebackers for our team with less injury, and character concerns.


That's true if Foster is just at the same level as the LB we use. If he's elite and ours are just ok the conclusions are the same. But yeah it's fair to add who we use at LB too. Just as the other T vs Bolles gives the picture there.


..quoted for wrong thread, oops....disregard.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.


Last edited by Broncofan on Tue May 02, 2017 2:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
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champ11


Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 5868
Location: CO -> ATX
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be the only one on the McKenzie train but watching his highlights....dude looks like a lock for making a guy or two miss every punt return. He looks like he's going to be dangerous anytime he gets some room on punt returns and could probably bring 1 or 2 to the house per season. If he gets by the first wave he has pretty good vision and home-run speed.

I couldn't find drop stats but his receiving highlights showed him catching with his hands. Seems sure handed but if anyone has drop/fumble stats let me know.

Not trying to argue about the pick value bc I understand why people are upset with the pick. But the player in the vacuum could be an immediate threat as a PR...which is pretty exciting for this franchise considering how our return game has been for a long time. He's not going to contribute on offense this season, but to me that is okay. Taylor Gabriel developed on that side of the ball and they are the same size. So it's not impossible to see him turning into a home run threat as a receiver.
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team rammy

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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
I might be the only one on the McKenzie train but watching his highlights....dude looks like a lock for making a guy or two miss every punt return. He looks like he's going to be dangerous anytime he gets some room on punt returns and could probably bring 1 or 2 to the house per season. If he gets by the first wave he has pretty good vision and home-run speed.

I couldn't find drop stats but his receiving highlights showed him catching with his hands. Seems sure handed but if anyone has drop/fumble stats let me know.

Not trying to argue about the pick value bc I understand why people are upset with the pick. But the player in the vacuum could be an immediate threat as a PR...which is pretty exciting for this franchise considering how our return game has been for a long time. He's not going to contribute on offense this season, but to me that is okay. Taylor Gabriel developed on that side of the ball and they are the same size. So it's not impossible to see him turning into a home run threat as a receiver.


In a vacuum, I doubt many would disagree with your assessment, champ. But the value does factor in, when C-Henderson/Langley could easily end up filling the KR/PR roles, and McKenzie's really hard to project for anything else. Let alone the fact that C-Henderson's future value is tied into becoming our slot WR along with a ST weapon (not just ST alone for him). Value unfortunately matters.

I know you're not arguing the value aspect, all good - just saying it absolutely matters. If he's redundant, especially given the alternatives that were there (this was just a crazy deep draft, unlike so many others), well, I not only get it, I'm in that camp. Doesn't mean anything certainty-wise, as always, time will tell.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

In a vacuum, I doubt many would disagree with your assessment, champ. But the value does factor in, when C-Henderson/Langley could easily end up filling the KR/PR roles, and McKenzie's really hard to project for anything else. Let alone the fact that C-Henderson's future value is tied into becoming our slot WR along with a ST weapon (not just ST alone for him). Value unfortunately matters.

I know you're not arguing the value aspect, all good - just saying it absolutely matters. If he's redundant, especially given the alternatives that were there (this was just a crazy deep draft, unlike so many others), well, I not only get it, I'm in that camp. Doesn't mean anything certainty-wise, as always, time will tell.


It was hard to justify keeping Trinton Holliday on the roster at times and for a year he was simply unreal at returns. That makes this even more of a head scratcher. How do you justify a roster spot for a rookie returner specialist when three other players you just drafted could also fill that role.

Also, in good news, I read that PFF had C-Henderson at something like 48 forced missed tackles last season. The next closest WR had 26. That's really, really freaking impressive. He seems to play a lot like Cordaralle Patterson, an assumed deep threat based on speed but not polished enough to get open, but as a gadget/trick play guy and screen man he should make some noise. I just don't have faith that he can digest a route tree and project beyond a Patterson type gimmick player.
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champ11


Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 5868
Location: CO -> ATX
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:

In a vacuum, I doubt many would disagree with your assessment, champ. But the value does factor in, when C-Henderson/Langley could easily end up filling the KR/PR roles, and McKenzie's really hard to project for anything else. Let alone the fact that C-Henderson's future value is tied into becoming our slot WR along with a ST weapon (not just ST alone for him). Value unfortunately matters.

I know you're not arguing the value aspect, all good - just saying it absolutely matters. If he's redundant, especially given the alternatives that were there (this was just a crazy deep draft, unlike so many others), well, I not only get it, I'm in that camp. Doesn't mean anything certainty-wise, as always, time will tell.


It was hard to justify keeping Trinton Holliday on the roster at times and for a year he was simply unreal at returns. That makes this even more of a head scratcher. How do you justify a roster spot for a rookie returner specialist when three other players you just drafted could also fill that role.

Also, in good news, I read that PFF had C-Henderson at something like 48 forced missed tackles last season. The next closest WR had 26. That's really, really freaking impressive. He seems to play a lot like Cordaralle Patterson, an assumed deep threat based on speed but not polished enough to get open, but as a gadget/trick play guy and screen man he should make some noise. I just don't have faith that he can digest a route tree and project beyond a Patterson type gimmick player.


If Trindon didn't have fumbling issues he would have been on this team for a long time. That was the issue rather than the roster spot, IMO.
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elliot878


Moderator
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 12258
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
My response to this dissertation is:LOL
Not everyone has time to sit down and put in such time in analyzing our team. Most of us hv jobs and responsibilities not that those who hv more time don't. Just making the point that some of us follow part time per pressing jobs. When I do hv time to post, I hv nothing nothing against strong opinions. That's what this forum is for.
What I hv a problem with is folks who make CATEGORICAL statements of opinion as if they are fact.
Sorry if you get up here and categorically state that a draft pick is a bust or has no chance of making the team? Sling weight or contributing in any fashion? You are straight up moron.
I am not mincing words. That maybe your opinion but express it as such, don't speak as if you are the he all and knowledge and certain about your draft grades. As the infamous coach of the Colts once said, you think you know but you just dnt know!


lol. Broncofan is one of the most balanced, rational and non-emotionally driven posters on this site. He does nothing but help drive the conversation and provide actual insight.

You on the other hand are heading to ban land with some totally unnecessary personal attacks.

Peace.

To be banned is predicated on violation of rules. While I applaud your lauding of Broncofan, you're clearly wanting elsewhere. I hv done nothing but state harsh facts and truth. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities but it dsnt violate forum rules. So as much as it may seem you wld like me banned, you'll just hv to hv a cigar or a fruit cake in the interim. Whatever floats your boat. I ain't going no where buddy. Smile



Actually, mke1010 you violated several forum rules over draft weekend. I wasn't on the computer enough to get to this write-up, but was reading through over the weekend.

Please read over the forum rules again before you post.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9338

Webmaster wrote:
3. Do not flame or troll. This is when you start a topic or post just to anger or incite other members.


There were several instances of this in your replies. You veered off topic flame other members on several occasions, seemingly for no other reason than to get a reaction.

Webmaster wrote:
2. Personal attacks, name calling, and threats to other members are not allowed.


While it is indirect, this statement qualifies as a violation of the rules.

mke1010 wrote:
Sorry if you get up here and categorically state that a draft pick is a bust or has no chance of making the team? Sling weight or contributing in any fashion? You are straight up moron.
.



mke1010, You've been around a while, and have been a solid contributor over the years. This kind of posting is beneath you, however. Contribute meaningfully to forum discussions about Denver Broncos football, without the flaming and indirect name calling that can so easily derail a thread, as it began to over the weekend. If you continue to flame and name call, I'll be forced to give you an official warning[/red] and notify the [b]Webmaster of your behavior - after which, it's his decision whether or not to ban you.
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