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The Official 2017 Baltimore Ravens Draft Thread
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
I don't view Julio making the traditionally insane SB catch against the Pats to partially delay the Patriots inevitable win as all that special. I think that was his only catch of the half and his failure to uncover quickly the rest of the game resulted in multiple sacks. Also if you take issue with the play calling, Julio's presence and perceived value/impact/ability no doubt influenced it. They weren't running the ball effectively down the stretch and they viewed him and the pass as their best option to seal the game, clock be damned. Similar deal with our SB win, they knew Gore would get stuffed so what did they try? Ask 49er fans how their #1 worked out for em when Jimmy puts hands on him. Whoever the delayer of the inevitable was that knocked out the lights in the stadium did more for the 49ers that night.

I'll absolutely concede that Demaryius can be considered a #1, blanked on him with ol noodle arm leading the charge that year. It's kind of my point though, because the rest of the Broncos and namely their defense was so filled out they didn't need a #1. It was a luxury, not a necessity and when they were all offense they got slaughtered in 48.

If we find a #1 great and I was big on us obtaining Corey Davis, but adding a #1 hasn't been and will never be vital to contention for this franchise. The Patriots won by removing #1 options from dependent offenses all year, while bombarding teams with their cohesive, specialized, versatile and fluid core.


My point was more so that it isn't either or. That is, there have been teams who have had success with true #1 receivers and teams that have done just as well without. Given the chance to add one, the Ravens shouldn't shy away from it because of past success/failure or the roster construction of previous Super Bowl winners. Unfortunately, the Ravens didn't get that opportunity this year, and I don't think you can fault them for not reaching on a prospect simply because a need existed. I personally like the way the draft played out and think we have the makings of a very formidable defense. And as long as our offensive line is stable, which is obviously still a question mark, I think we should be able to produce a league average offense, at the least. Combine that with a defense in the upper echelon of the NFL and we really don't have any excuse for missing the playoffs again this year. Or at least that's the way I look at it.
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bananabucket wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
For years the argument has been, mostly, Peyton V Joe V Brady as the GOAT QB.

Flacco?
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree completely. I'm also not going to knock the team for failing to obtain a WR in a historically bad class for them. We were never going to build an elite or great offense in one offseason but we certainly could for defense, and I think we did. The pass rush will be no joke and just looking at that regular season opener, the Bengals chose a bad time to lose some starters on their line.

One of the few hiccups I can envision is the lack of an effective runner early on in the year. Some think West can be serviceable but I'm not sold, and not having Dixon to start of the season might make it more difficult to establish the run for us early on. It would be great if we could establish it early and really set a tone for the season at large but with Dixon out it could be difficult. I have to think we're going to employ some heavy heavy TE sets, and they will be the focal point of offense if we can't get the run game going.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
I don't view Julio making the traditionally insane SB catch against the Pats to partially delay the Patriots inevitable win as all that special. I think that was his only catch of the half and his failure to uncover quickly the rest of the game resulted in multiple sacks. Also if you take issue with the play calling, Julio's presence and perceived value/impact/ability no doubt influenced it. They weren't running the ball effectively down the stretch and they viewed him and the pass as their best option to seal the game, clock be damned. Similar deal with our SB win, they knew Gore would get stuffed so what did they try? Ask 49er fans how their #1 worked out for em when Jimmy puts hands on him. Whoever the delayer of the inevitable was that knocked out the lights in the stadium did more for the 49ers that night.

I'll absolutely concede that Demaryius can be considered a #1, blanked on him with ol noodle arm leading the charge that year. It's kind of my point though, because the rest of the Broncos and namely their defense was so filled out they didn't need a #1. It was a luxury, not a necessity and when they were all offense they got slaughtered in 48.

If we find a #1 great and I was big on us obtaining Corey Davis, but adding a #1 hasn't been and will never be vital to contention for this franchise. The Patriots won by removing #1 options from dependent offenses all year, while bombarding teams with their cohesive, specialized, versatile and fluid core.


The Patriots also have one of the best, if not the best, quarterbacks of all time while we have Joe Flacco. In general, teams get away with not having great receivers when they have great quarterbacks. Flacco isn't going to be as bad as he was early part of last year but best case scenario he's average.

Regardless of how Julio Jones did in the Super Bowl - and he was great, and a huge part of why the Falcons should have won that game before Matt Ryan/Kyle Shanahan/the defense choked - he was also a huge part of why they were there in the first place. A legitimately great WR can do that.

We don't have that, and we won't this year. Doesn't mean we can't be competitive, but it does mean that our offense will mostly be bad. We don't have great receivers. We don't have a great running game. We don't have a great offensive system. We don't have a great quarterback. Most teams that are big time successful have something good in their offensive unit. Everything on our end is bland and average.

Flacco is who he is. He needs a good supporting cast in order to succeed. If the Stanley stays healthy and the offensive line holds up, he'll be okay, but he's going to struggle if we're relying on Wallace/Perriman/Pitta to be his targets. Maybe if our defense with all of these additions can hit all-time levels like the 2015 Broncos or 2000 Ravens, etc. did but let's be realistic, it's not good enough, and the offense definitely isn't.

That's probably okay in the long run, and hopefully now that we've reloaded on defense with the cap space we have next year we can do the same with the offense - but as we're built now we're looking at a scrap for the playoffs based on how much the defense can overcome Pees. We're not top tier, won't compete for the Super Bowl this year, and have a lot of work to do. I think we did have a lot of work to actually reload the roster with talent and I don't think it could have been done in one offseason, but that doesn't mean we should act like the things we're missing aren't needed.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
The Patriots also have one of the best, if not the best, quarterbacks of all time while we have Joe Flacco. In general, teams get away with not having great receivers when they have great quarterbacks. Flacco isn't going to be as bad as he was early part of last year but best case scenario he's average.

Regardless of how Julio Jones did in the Super Bowl - and he was great, and a huge part of why the Falcons should have won that game before Matt Ryan/Kyle Shanahan/the defense choked - he was also a huge part of why they were there in the first place. A legitimately great WR can do that.

We don't have that, and we won't this year. Doesn't mean we can't be competitive, but it does mean that our offense will mostly be bad. We don't have great receivers. We don't have a great running game. We don't have a great offensive system. We don't have a great quarterback. Most teams that are big time successful have something good in their offensive unit. Everything on our end is bland and average.

Flacco is who he is. He needs a good supporting cast in order to succeed. If the Stanley stays healthy and the offensive line holds up, he'll be okay, but he's going to struggle if we're relying on Wallace/Perriman/Pitta to be his targets. Maybe if our defense with all of these additions can hit all-time levels like the 2015 Broncos or 2000 Ravens, etc. did but let's be realistic, it's not good enough, and the offense definitely isn't.

That's probably okay in the long run, and hopefully now that we've reloaded on defense with the cap space we have next year we can do the same with the offense - but as we're built now we're looking at a scrap for the playoffs based on how much the defense can overcome Pees. We're not top tier, won't compete for the Super Bowl this year, and have a lot of work to do. I think we did have a lot of work to actually reload the roster with talent and I don't think it could have been done in one offseason, but that doesn't mean we should act like the things we're missing aren't needed.


Our TEs are better than league average and our speed at receiver is superior to almost every NFL club. It remains to be seen post injury, but generally Woodhead isn't an average weapon. Also Tucker is a weapon for us of the highest quality, but largely I'm in agreement with you.

I don't know why the benefits of adding a #1 receiver to the team keeps getting reiterated. The only thing I took umbrage with was the idea that adding a true #1 is vital to club success, namely ours, and that it needed to be such a harping point. I never once stated that an addition wouldn't be beneficial.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11186
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
http://www.news-journalonline.com/sports/20170429/stetsons-donald-payne-signs-with-ravens-as-undrafted-free-agent

Payne said he got a contract not a tryout from the Ravens.


Quote:
Jeff Zrebiec‏Verified account @jeffzrebiecsun 18h18 hours ago

Per the transaction wire, the Ravens have waived ILB Cavellis Luckett.


Makes sense then. Roster still supposedly full. Again, here's the (unofficial) UDFA class:

Zach Terrell QB
Taquan Mizzell RB
Ricky Ortiz FB/TE
Quincy Adeboyejo WR
C.J. Board WR
Tim Patrick WR
Tim White WR
Theron Wilson WR (tryout)
Tyler Cameron TE (tryout)
Brandon Kublanow OL
Maurquice Shakir OL
Andrew Wylie OL
Derrick Nelson OL (tryout)
Omarius Bryant DL
Pat Ricard DL
Bam Bradley LB
Carlos Davis CB
Daniel Henry S
Donald Payne S
Bobby Puyol K
Kenny Allen P

There are probably more tryout players though. Three seems low. Also:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/inside-an-nfl-draft-war-room-ravens-never-expected-to-land-humphrey-at-no-16/

Read this. It's La Canfora, but that probably helped actually get the interview in this case. Think I might try and listen to his podcast later to hear the actual audio with DeCosta.
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dcarey20


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not thrilled with our WR group either, but I don't have a huge issue with the Ravens not going WR in the draft, the more I look at it. I liked Carlos Henderson in the 3rd, but it's nave to think that just adding him would have made a huge difference for our offense.

I obviously liked the big 3 of Williams, Davis and Ross, but we got screwed once they all went top 10. I would have loved any of them at 16, but that's just not how it played out.

Juju and Cooper Kupp were the next guys that may have been difference makers, but I wouldn't have taken either at 47. Pretty much any USC skill player scares me given their track record And while I thought Kupp was decent, I wasn't as high on him as it seems a lot of others were.

So I think a lot of people (and not fans on here, but Raven fans in general) just wanted a WR without really understanding the prospects and values and how the board fell.

Now, you can make the argument that OJ Howard would have been a nice addition at 16, and I don't disagree. But if you draft him you're also increasing the logjam at TE. IMO there would have to be a lot of shuffling there, and they've already committed to Pitta, and it's tough to just cut guys like Williams, Gillmore, Boyle, and Waller outright. Then there's Watson, who it seems like they are going to keep around as well.
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bmorecareful


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 858
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our plan on offense is to implement plenty two TE sets and go bacc to power play action time of possession football... with our personnel it's really the only thing that makes sense
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RayReed2052


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at our schedule though, if our defense does what it's capable of this year and limits teams to 17-20 on average, are there really any defenses we play where we'll need a really good offense to score around there? I think an average to sub par offense wins games against a lot of those D's provided our defense plays up to it's potential
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Let the record show that fans of a team with Tom Brady is making fun of someone else for being a whiner.
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bmorecareful


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RayReed2052 wrote:
Looking at our schedule though, if our defense does what it's capable of this year and limits teams to 17-20 on average, are there really any defenses we play where we'll need a really good offense to score around there? I think an average to sub par offense wins games against a lot of those D's provided our defense plays up to it's potential


To be honest I expect us to allow less than that... if we allowing 20 points a game defensively im a be extremely disappointed... I understand guys have to prove it on the field but on paper we are as talented a defensive team across the board as we have been post Rex
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmorecareful wrote:
I think our plan on offense is to implement plenty two TE sets and go bacc to power play action time of possession football... with our personnel it's really the only thing that makes sense


But Marty Mornhinweg.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
You guys signed OL Andrew Wylie from Eastern Michigan and it's a hell of a signing. He played left tackle, left guard, and right tackle for EMU and he can play right guard and has been working on taking reps at center as well. He destroyed his pro day and he really developed his technique over the past few years. He's a good player and should have been drafted. I don't know what your depth chart looks like and how much competition he'll face, but at the worst he should make your practice squad.


To follow up on Wylie, here's a decent article about him:

http://www.ourmidland.com/sports/article/Wylie-signs-pro-contract-with-Baltimore-Ravens-11113471.php

He's actually somewhat of a local guy for me so I was pretty interested to see the Ravens sign him. Didn't follow Eastern Michigan at all but everything I've read seems good. As of right now my guess for the offensive line would be:

Stanley
Siragusa / Jensen
Urschel
Yanda / Eluemunor
Lewis / Wesley

Which is eight spots. But both Jensen and Wesley are far from guaranteed to make the team. So there should be ample opportunity for Wylie, Kublanow, and Shakir to compete for a roster spot. Hurst, Skura, Nembot, Pughsley, and Broxton all have a chance too but I think we all hope James gets the boot sooner rather than later.
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DreamKid


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be shocked when Urschel is a backup on a zone scheme team this year. He just doesn't cut it as far as the team's vision and Roman's plan. The team saw the effect of having an ineffectual and ineffective player at center last year and won't risk it again this year. Yanda, Siragusa, and Eluemenor should all be considered locks. Siragusa gets plugged in at LG, and Eluemenor is groomed behind Yanda at RG. Should Nico or Yanda go down, I expect Alex Lewis's versatility to come in handy as he kicks back inside from RT. Which is why tackle depth will most likely be prioritized over interior. After we see what we have at rookie mini camp anticipate a Mangold or some other veteran signing. Barring some UDFA blowing it up, I just can't see them not rolling with a proven presence at the spot. I'm guessing they waited to see how the draft played out and wanted to reel better UDFAs in at C, so a signing was delayed but it will come.

A good thing is our defensive roster is built to put all our question mark spots right in the fire. Williams will reveal our best option at center and our reloaded horde of pass rushers will do the same at tackle.

A bit of a depressing tweet from Likely-

Quote:
William Likely III (@4GoLive)
My knee is gone be fine,i jus wan compete!


On that note I think the team will also prioritize finding the best return weapon possible. It's a camp battle to look out for, they know how important field position will be for us this year and getting Tucker in range will be key.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
Don't be shocked when Urschel is a backup on a zone scheme team this year.


Sure, I think Urschel is far better off in a zone scheme too but the Ravens aren't in a position to be giving away offensive linemen either. Signing Mangold wouldn't change that one bit. Depth would still be an issue... if you even think Nick is worth anything.

Then there's Skura and Kublanow. Two undrafted free agents. Not a lot of hope for quality competition there. Jensen doesn't seem to be an option at center with his failed conversion attempt. He's a guard.

Even if the Ravens bring in a bona fide starter at center they're going to want a backup they're comfortable with. John will be in Baltimore this season. For what it's worth here are the free agent centers available according to OverTheCap:

Nick Mangold
Cody Wallace
Ryan Wendell
Tim Barnes
Sam Brenner
Valerian Ume-Ezeoke

Laughing

So no, there is no bona fide starter to bring in anyways. Urschel is currently a better player than everybody on that list even playing out of position and in the wrong scheme to suit his strengths. Including Mangold. Dude is done.
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DreamKid


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:

Sure, I think Urschel is far better off in a zone scheme too but the Ravens aren't in a position to be giving away offensive linemen either. Signing Mangold wouldn't change that one bit. Depth would still be an issue... if you even think Nick is worth anything.

Then there's Skura and Kublanow. Two undrafted free agents. Not a lot of hope for quality competition there. Jensen doesn't seem to be an option at center with his failed conversion attempt. He's a guard.

Even if the Ravens bring in a bona fide starter at center they're going to want a backup they're comfortable with. John will be in Baltimore this season. For what it's worth here are the free agent centers available according to OverTheCap:

Nick Mangold
Cody Wallace
Ryan Wendell
Tim Barnes
Sam Brenner
Valerian Ume-Ezeoke

Laughing

So no, there is no bona fide starter to bring in anyways. Urschel is currently a better player than everybody on that list even playing out of position and in the wrong scheme to suit his strengths. Including Mangold. Dude is done.


Lofty statement. I won't pretend to be an expert on Mangold but pouring over everything Urschel, the outlook is bleak. If you feel Mangold will be worse then the situation becomes quite negative as I feel the team will inevitably circle back to Nick.

Ideally an UDFA emerges but that seems unlikely. The team's inability to locate and or develop a center is a disturbing trend. We've leaned on FAs at the position for a long time. I'm with you on the guard converts too, not interested in seeing Siragusa attempt to play center for us, especially in his rookie year. It annoys me that we might have to accept mediocrity at the position again Rolling Eyes. Don't need Flacco bailing the pocket again and again and again.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 988
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
DreamKid wrote:
Don't be shocked when Urschel is a backup on a zone scheme team this year.


Sure, I think Urschel is far better off in a zone scheme too but the Ravens aren't in a position to be giving away offensive linemen either. Signing Mangold wouldn't change that one bit. Depth would still be an issue... if you even think Nick is worth anything.

Then there's Skura and Kublanow. Two undrafted free agents. Not a lot of hope for quality competition there. Jensen doesn't seem to be an option at center with his failed conversion attempt. He's a guard.

Even if the Ravens bring in a bona fide starter at center they're going to want a backup they're comfortable with. John will be in Baltimore this season. For what it's worth here are the free agent centers available according to OverTheCap:

Nick Mangold
Cody Wallace
Ryan Wendell
Tim Barnes
Sam Brenner
Valerian Ume-Ezeoke

Laughing

So no, there is no bona fide starter to bring in anyways. Urschel is currently a better player than everybody on that list even playing out of position and in the wrong scheme to suit his strengths. Including Mangold. Dude is done.


Why is Mangold done? The guy had, what, one injury and played at a high level until then.
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