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2017 Offseason Thread V. III
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 15241
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MWil23 wrote:
Over/Under win total for the Browns this year is 4.5

Thoughts?


I think we are currently underdogs in every game according to at least one site.

It really depends on how the defense gels which may be a slower than we would like pace and who plays QB and how do they do.

That said I'm optimistic and think we start 4-2 so I'm going with the over.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 6179
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
Personally I mostly like your posts, Dizzy.

Not among the football sanctamonious in the forum.

With the possible exceptions of Mind - with an incredible depth of knowledge/insight, Bosko - with an apparently good inside look, and Brownie Man with superior sheer, dumb, idiot luck, you are ok by me.


I dont mind his posts either......I find the Sanctimonious way he presents his opinions as Gospel Facts..and his attempts to belittle differing opinions to make his argument "sound" stronger to himself or someone *shrug* .....disturbing......But now I just find it funny....
Smile

-That is All
(I now understand why you end things this way MC....ITS finally clear to me LOL)
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11423
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:


Mistakes? Laughing You call it a mistake, in here we call that the regression of intelligence. Potato potato, tomato tomato, green beans green beans, patty pan squash patty pan squash, etc etc etc and buno's and etc.

Have you done the advanced maths on comparing the $16 million dollar back up QB known as Brock "the giraffe sized project" Osweiler to other back ups in the league? I haven't. Also you never answered my query of what in your superior mind constitutes a back up CB? #12? #15 on the cb depth chart?


Actually, I have, and I have explained that to you, and everyone else, several times. The Browns are paying him franchise QB money, regardless. There is no escaping that fact. Cut him today, cut him the day before the season, keep him, regardless, he is getting paid.

Given that, what makes more sense, kick the tires, see what you have, and if his one and only bad year is the fault of BOB, or if all of that potential really is wasted because it just doesn't click upstairs.

Myself, if I somehow end up buying a new car, without test driving it first, and I am paying the price, no matter what.... I am going to try it out myself and see what I have bought, regardless if the ladies across the street in the beauty shop getting their hair done, says that the car sucks, rather than listen to the talking heads that wouldn't know the difference between a Corvette and a Power Wheels toy.

Just my 2 cents. I think its pretty safe to say that the Browns management agrees with me as they have said, all along, that they were keeping him, and that he would have a chance to compete.


And what about the back up CB question?
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11423
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EL Brownso wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
EL Brownso wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Personally I mostly like your posts, Dizzy.

Not among the football sanctamonious in the forum.

With the possible exceptions of Mind - with an incredible depth of knowledge/insight, Bosko - with an apparently good inside look, and Brownie Man with superior sheer, dumb, idiot luck, you are ok by me.


Every good story needs an antagonist. I'm glad to have a few in here. People agreeing is boring.


I disagree.


I disagree with your disagreement


This is exciting!!

Rolling Eyes


Agree to disagree.
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11423
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MWil23 wrote:
Over/Under win total for the Browns this year is 4.5

Thoughts?


I think over, but I wouldn't put money on it. Way too many variables.
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sdrawkcab321


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 35499
Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garrett offically signs
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sdraw was right.


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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 15247
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
MWil23 wrote:
Over/Under win total for the Browns this year is 4.5

Thoughts?


I think over, but I wouldn't put money on it. Way too many variables.


This is where I'm at at too.

We improved the talent level at a LOT of positions and should have some organic improvement from last year's draft too. We also upgraded our defensive coaching staff.

That said, we're still young as hell.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:

Actually, I have, and I have explained that to you, and everyone else, several times. The Browns are paying him franchise QB money, regardless. There is no escaping that fact. Cut him today, cut him the day before the season, keep him, regardless, he is getting paid.

Given that, what makes more sense, kick the tires, see what you have, and if his one and only bad year is the fault of BOB, or if all of that potential really is wasted because it just doesn't click upstairs.

Myself, if I somehow end up buying a new car, without test driving it first, and I am paying the price, no matter what.... I am going to try it out myself and see what I have bought, regardless if the ladies across the street in the beauty shop getting their hair done, says that the car sucks, rather than listen to the talking heads that wouldn't know the difference between a Corvette and a Power Wheels toy.

Just my 2 cents. I think its pretty safe to say that the Browns management agrees with me as they have said, all along, that they were keeping him, and that he would have a chance to compete.


BizzyBean, I dont think it is a consensus that he wont be given a shot or chance. Its just going to be a slim shot and a slim chance he makes it. If reports are true that Kessler has improved his arm strength he just made himself true NFL starter

That it be smarter for the Browns to play and develop Deshone "The Project" Kizer over Brock "The Project" Osweiler. The Project is younger, has an arm just as good as The Project, if not better. The Project is more athletic than The Project, and in the long term is a more promising QB than the The Project. If The Project has a good year, he is going to be asking for big time money, where if The Project has a good year you have to pay him $600k, $800K, and $1m. That would be The Projects game checks. Its makes sense to just go with The Project


Except osweiler has actually played at and looked good at the NFL level until he ended up with BOB. Kizer has not even looked decent really in college.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That said, exactly what I called to happen all along is happening. That is a qb competition this year between Kessler, osweiler, and a mid round project, and may the best man win, and hopefully answer the qb question.

The only difference is the mid round project ended up being a round 2 project. Personally I hope all 3 guys look lights out.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:

Actually, I have, and I have explained that to you, and everyone else, several times. The Browns are paying him franchise QB money, regardless. There is no escaping that fact. Cut him today, cut him the day before the season, keep him, regardless, he is getting paid.

Given that, what makes more sense, kick the tires, see what you have, and if his one and only bad year is the fault of BOB, or if all of that potential really is wasted because it just doesn't click upstairs.

Myself, if I somehow end up buying a new car, without test driving it first, and I am paying the price, no matter what.... I am going to try it out myself and see what I have bought, regardless if the ladies across the street in the beauty shop getting their hair done, says that the car sucks, rather than listen to the talking heads that wouldn't know the difference between a Corvette and a Power Wheels toy.

Just my 2 cents. I think its pretty safe to say that the Browns management agrees with me as they have said, all along, that they were keeping him, and that he would have a chance to compete.


BizzyBean, I dont think it is a consensus that he wont be given a shot or chance. Its just going to be a slim shot and a slim chance he makes it. If reports are true that Kessler has improved his arm strength he just made himself true NFL starter

That it be smarter for the Browns to play and develop Deshone "The Project" Kizer over Brock "The Project" Osweiler. The Project is younger, has an arm just as good as The Project, if not better. The Project is more athletic than The Project, and in the long term is a more promising QB than the The Project. If The Project has a good year, he is going to be asking for big time money, where if The Project has a good year you have to pay him $600k, $800K, and $1m. That would be The Projects game checks. Its makes sense to just go with The Project


Except osweiler has actually played at and looked good at the NFL level until he ended up with BOB. Kizer has not even looked decent really in college.


If Kizer didnt look decent in college, than you truly cant evaluate game tape.

When it comes to defending Kizer, is this where I start blaming the coaching and the surrounding talent like the WRs gave up on passes or whatever you bring up to defend Brock as being a top15 top10 QB in the NFL if it wasnt for Bob.

So easy to give Brock benefit of the doubt for Bob, why cant Kizer get it from Kelly?

Denver knew Manning was retiring. They had a 2nd rd pick invested into the QB, who sat and developed behind Manning. He had game tape on him. Denver knew him better than anyone and still didnt think he was worth it to resign/match the offer Houston was offering him.

Houston was going to give him franchise money and Denver knew he wasnt worth it cause he wasnt a franchise QB. Texans found out real quick he wasnt a franchise QB for them.

Denver knew he wasnt worth it
Houston knew he wasnt worth it

The Cleveland Browns thing would to try and out smart everyone and say that Brock is worth it. If this was the past, I think this would be the issue but Sashi and them are not acting like Brock is going to start and that they really like Kizer.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:

Actually, I have, and I have explained that to you, and everyone else, several times. The Browns are paying him franchise QB money, regardless. There is no escaping that fact. Cut him today, cut him the day before the season, keep him, regardless, he is getting paid.

Given that, what makes more sense, kick the tires, see what you have, and if his one and only bad year is the fault of BOB, or if all of that potential really is wasted because it just doesn't click upstairs.

Myself, if I somehow end up buying a new car, without test driving it first, and I am paying the price, no matter what.... I am going to try it out myself and see what I have bought, regardless if the ladies across the street in the beauty shop getting their hair done, says that the car sucks, rather than listen to the talking heads that wouldn't know the difference between a Corvette and a Power Wheels toy.

Just my 2 cents. I think its pretty safe to say that the Browns management agrees with me as they have said, all along, that they were keeping him, and that he would have a chance to compete.


BizzyBean, I dont think it is a consensus that he wont be given a shot or chance. Its just going to be a slim shot and a slim chance he makes it. If reports are true that Kessler has improved his arm strength he just made himself true NFL starter

That it be smarter for the Browns to play and develop Deshone "The Project" Kizer over Brock "The Project" Osweiler. The Project is younger, has an arm just as good as The Project, if not better. The Project is more athletic than The Project, and in the long term is a more promising QB than the The Project. If The Project has a good year, he is going to be asking for big time money, where if The Project has a good year you have to pay him $600k, $800K, and $1m. That would be The Projects game checks. Its makes sense to just go with The Project


Except osweiler has actually played at and looked good at the NFL level until he ended up with BOB. Kizer has not even looked decent really in college.


If Kizer didnt look decent in college, than you truly cant evaluate game tape.

When it comes to defending Kizer, is this where I start blaming the coaching and the surrounding talent like the WRs gave up on passes or whatever you bring up to defend Brock as being a top15 top10 QB in the NFL if it wasnt for Bob.

So easy to give Brock benefit of the doubt for Bob, why cant Kizer get it from Kelly?

Denver knew Manning was retiring. They had a 2nd rd pick invested into the QB, who sat and developed behind Manning. He had game tape on him. Denver knew him better than anyone and still didnt think he was worth it to resign/match the offer Houston was offering him.

Houston was going to give him franchise money and Denver knew he wasnt worth it cause he wasnt a franchise QB. Texans found out real quick he wasnt a franchise QB for them.

Denver knew he wasnt worth it
Houston knew he wasnt worth it

The Cleveland Browns thing would to try and out smart everyone and say that Brock is worth it. If this was the past, I think this would be the issue but Sashi and them are not acting like Brock is going to start and that they really like Kizer.


Good point, except for the fact that Denver did want to and try to resign him, but could not match Houston's offer without destroying their cap and literally having to watch everyone else walk over the next few years.

Outside of being pretty much completely wrong, you make a sound point.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regarding the over/under, I could really see this team being a 500 team, but to do so, the D has to come together and gel in a hurry, and we need stability at the QB position. Whoever is there when the dust settles at the end of the preseason needs to be durable and stable, (doesn't have to be all world, just reliable). If those happen, we are an 8 and 8 team.
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EL Brownso


Joined: 14 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdrawkcab321 wrote:
Garrett offically signs


Fully guaranteed. No offset language.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 15241
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EL Brownso wrote:
sdrawkcab321 wrote:
Garrett offically signs


Fully guaranteed. No offset language.


Glad we didn't Bosa him.


I think trading the Wentz pick was a good move but if we would have come away with Bosa and Michael Thomas (my picks for the last draft partly because I'm an OSU homer) and Garrett and Njoku from this year I would have been happy.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EL Brownso wrote:
sdrawkcab321 wrote:
Garrett offically signs


Fully guaranteed. No offset language.


Doesn't worry me that it's fully guaranteed. It's not like it was before this current CBA when rookie deals were getting stupid. Plus I feel like even if he doesn't live up to expectations he will at worst be pretty good
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