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What's the Deal with the D-Line?
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resilient


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 4639
Location: where old school ballers go to die
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DE, CB or CB, DE???

Guess what , Dallas drafts a WR Shocked

wait for it.
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WizardHawk


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 15620
Location: Hawkeye State
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
JShank wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
JShank wrote:
If you put Irving's tape from last year and his measurables against this year's draft class, he would be picked over all but Garrett.



You can disagree with me, but it is not a meme-deserving crazy claim. Analysts have said the similar things. . . Irving goes number 12 overall in the link below.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000799656/article/2015-nfl-draft-doover-david-johnson-goes-before-todd-gurley
Dude has 4.5 career sacks.

edit - for reference, there were 7 rookies in the NFL last year with 5 or more sacks, and Irving has had two seasons to accumulate those 4.5.

http://www.draftseason.com/ds-nfl-rookie-roundup/

Jonathan Allen, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton, TJ Watt, Charles Harris, Takkarist McKinley, Jordan Willis, & Tyus Bowser are all likely upgrades over Irving. And I was generous and left out Malik McDowell and Haasan Reddick.


I do think it's worth noting for comparison the snap counts of those 7 compared to Irving.

Buckner - 1006
Ogbah - 850
Ngakoue - 706
Collins -656
Spence - 572
Bosa - 563
Floyd - 536

Irving has 684 in two seasons. He's basically coming off a rookie season.
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canadaluvsdalla


Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 5168
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
JShank wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
JShank wrote:
If you put Irving's tape from last year and his measurables against this year's draft class, he would be picked over all but Garrett.



You can disagree with me, but it is not a meme-deserving crazy claim. Analysts have said the similar things. . . Irving goes number 12 overall in the link below.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000799656/article/2015-nfl-draft-doover-david-johnson-goes-before-todd-gurley
Dude has 4.5 career sacks.

edit - for reference, there were 7 rookies in the NFL last year with 5 or more sacks, and Irving has had two seasons to accumulate those 4.5.

http://www.draftseason.com/ds-nfl-rookie-roundup/

Jonathan Allen, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton, TJ Watt, Charles Harris, Takkarist McKinley, Jordan Willis, & Tyus Bowser are all likely upgrades over Irving. And I was generous and left out Malik McDowell and Haasan Reddick.


I do think it's worth noting for comparison the snap counts of those 7 compared to Irving.

Buckner - 1006
Ogbah - 850
Ngakoue - 706
Collins -656
Spence - 572
Bosa - 563
Floyd - 536

Irving has 684 in two seasons. He's basically coming off a rookie season.


Plus he only got his shot to play last year at the end when he was picked up from the chiefs practice squad.
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JShank


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 725
Location: Palm Beach County FL
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
DaBoys wrote:
You don't draft just to fill out your roster. Not in the 1st round anyway. btw we have the bodies at safety. We just don't have the talent. Same with DE. CB we don't have the numbers, but I don't hate Scan, Brown, and Carroll as the starters. Just need depth. That's not what the 1st round is for though.
Heath has flashed just as much as Irving. Irving's flashes were more noticeable though because he plays a more....... premium position. Which brings us back to DE.


You MKnight are both completely ignoring my entire argument and turning it into something its not.

If its the 4th best DE and the 4th best DB and they both have starting potential - take the DE.

But if its (highly likely) the 6th best DE, that has a 2nd round grade.
VS
The 3rd best DB that has a 1st round grade.

The choice is easy. Looking at the mocks the only guys falling to us at DE are not going to be 'stud pass rushers'. But there looks to be a high likelihood that a quality starting DB will be there.

So if you are asking me rather I would prefer a LCB who looks to fit the bill for the next 5 years... or a rotational DE that 'MIGHT' be better than DLaw... I know where I am going.


This is exactly my point. . . Gotta be swayed towards BPA, when the roster allows. In the scenario you describe, BPA is the way to go, and it is not likely that player will be a pass-rusher at 28.

Watt IMO is worth it, because he can play standing up at SLB, and rotate to the line on passing downs (Reddick would be awesome here, but will be gone). Therefore, you aren't just getting a backup rotational guy, you are getting starter snap count contributions.

Again, Barnett is a wildcard. . . I don't know what to make of him. . . But, Takk, Harris, even Taco are not worth 28. At that point just wait till 60 and grab a pass-rusher.
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DaBoys


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 8278
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadaluvsdalla wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
JShank wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
JShank wrote:
If you put Irving's tape from last year and his measurables against this year's draft class, he would be picked over all but Garrett.



You can disagree with me, but it is not a meme-deserving crazy claim. Analysts have said the similar things. . . Irving goes number 12 overall in the link below.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000799656/article/2015-nfl-draft-doover-david-johnson-goes-before-todd-gurley
Dude has 4.5 career sacks.

edit - for reference, there were 7 rookies in the NFL last year with 5 or more sacks, and Irving has had two seasons to accumulate those 4.5.

http://www.draftseason.com/ds-nfl-rookie-roundup/

Jonathan Allen, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton, TJ Watt, Charles Harris, Takkarist McKinley, Jordan Willis, & Tyus Bowser are all likely upgrades over Irving. And I was generous and left out Malik McDowell and Haasan Reddick.


I do think it's worth noting for comparison the snap counts of those 7 compared to Irving.

Buckner - 1006
Ogbah - 850
Ngakoue - 706
Collins -656
Spence - 572
Bosa - 563
Floyd - 536

Irving has 684 in two seasons. He's basically coming off a rookie season.


Plus he only got his shot to play last year at the end when he was picked up from the chiefs practice squad.


You mean the year before last.
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JShank


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 725
Location: Palm Beach County FL
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas Cowboys had more sacks than anyone, the last 6 games of the season.

I know many will try to minimize this fact by saying "Look at who we played, its just a snap shot, last game doesn't matter etc. . ."

Whatever, the fact remains we have an extremely young D-Line that was OBVIOUSLY improving with every game.

IMO if Irving has put in work this off-season (assume he is doing things to progress) than all the evidence points to him being much improved from last year.

My prediction is that Irving and Collins are our best D-Linemen this year.

My prediction is a retort to those who claim Irving is garbage, because that IS what you are saying if you claim all of those rookies "Jonathan Allen, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton, TJ Watt, Charles Harris, Takkarist McKinley, Jordan Willis, & Tyus Bowser are all likely upgrades over Irving. And I was generous and left out Malik McDowell and Haasan Reddick"
Are all "likely" better prospects heading into this year. . . One side of this argument will be eating crow, and we should re-visit this debate Smile
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, this is all I know. Rod M is, in my opinion, one of the absolute best coaches in the NFL. I am glad he got some new toys on Draftmas.
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