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jlieberum1985


Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 354
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8707
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower
And they all had similar stats.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1452
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


You're still logged into your other account haha Shocked

Saying they were better IS using hindsight. If the choices of the members of this board were reflective of the front office than there would be no need for the draft section. It's also not taking into account the draft profiles that Reggie and co had on players which you wouldn't know. I can see a scenario where they counted on Ward taking time to become the player they envisioned and were willing to pass on players that may produce right away for the promise of what Ward would become.
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jlieberum1985


Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 354
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


i'm pretty sure majority of them wanted raiders to draft derrick henry when they're on the clock last year, just to find out we draft ward over him. the point is we need to draft player that are ready to play right away, we can't wait until 2 or 3 years. it's a freaking 2nd round pick that expect to be starter at least, if you want to draft a project - do it in the 4th or 5th round...
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlieberum1985 wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


i'm pretty sure majority of them wanted raiders to draft derrick henry when they're on the clock last year, just to find out we draft ward over him. the point is we need to draft player that are ready to play right away, we can't wait until 2 or 3 years. it's a freaking 2nd round pick that expect to be starter at least, if you want to draft a project - do it in the 4th or 5th round...


Replying to yourself isn't gonna throw peps off the scent.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1452
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


You're still logged into your other account haha Shocked

Saying they were better IS using hindsight. If the choices of the members of this board were reflective of the front office than there would be no need for the draft section. It's also not taking into account the draft profiles that Reggie and co had on players which you wouldn't know. I can see a scenario where they counted on Ward taking time to become the player they envisioned and were willing to pass on players that may produce right away for the promise of what Ward would become.


Saying there were better choices is not using hindsight. It just means they had a greater chance of succeeding which they did do year 1 which means those who wanted Henry or Spriggs were at least correct in year 1. Stating that we do not know what RM's draft board was does not matter in this argument because we are arguing that whether or not he made a bad decision in round two. Because he took Ward over Henry and Spriggs I am saying his board was bad for that point in the draft. And I do agree that a 2nd rounder should not be a project. Your 2nd round pick should have unrealized potential but still have had good production. Not just one game against Iowa. Larry Brown had one great game also.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


You're still logged into your other account haha Shocked

Saying they were better IS using hindsight. If the choices of the members of this board were reflective of the front office than there would be no need for the draft section. It's also not taking into account the draft profiles that Reggie and co had on players which you wouldn't know. I can see a scenario where they counted on Ward taking time to become the player they envisioned and were willing to pass on players that may produce right away for the promise of what Ward would become.


Saying there were better choices is not using hindsight. It just means they had a greater chance of succeeding which they did do year 1 which means those who wanted Henry or Spriggs were at least correct in year 1. Stating that we do not know what RM's draft board was does not matter in this argument because we are arguing that whether or not he made a bad decision in round two. Because he took Ward over Henry and Spriggs I am saying his board was bad for that point in the draft. And I do agree that a 2nd rounder should not be a project. Your 2nd round pick should have unrealized potential but still have had good production. Not just one game against Iowa. Larry Brown had one great game also.


Whatever jlieberum.

The only thing that has been proven is that Henry had a better rookie year. That wasn't the premise of the argument being made.

You can't judge a pick after one year IMO unless the stats and performance are extremely disproportionate. You need to look at the length of atleast the rookie deal to make that kind of judgement. Both the Dlinemen you compared Ward (Robinson and Reed) to had very similar stats and performances for 2016.

Because you are use to 2nd rders being starters and playing tons of snaps right away doesn't mean that is the metric that Reggie is looking at or expecting of the player when he drafts and I don't believe that was the goal for Ward especially in the beginning of the year.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's quite obvious they're not the same poster.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
It's quite obvious they're not the same poster.


Is it though... Eh?
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1452
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


You're still logged into your other account haha Shocked

Saying they were better IS using hindsight. If the choices of the members of this board were reflective of the front office than there would be no need for the draft section. It's also not taking into account the draft profiles that Reggie and co had on players which you wouldn't know. I can see a scenario where they counted on Ward taking time to become the player they envisioned and were willing to pass on players that may produce right away for the promise of what Ward would become.


Saying there were better choices is not using hindsight. It just means they had a greater chance of succeeding which they did do year 1 which means those who wanted Henry or Spriggs were at least correct in year 1. Stating that we do not know what RM's draft board was does not matter in this argument because we are arguing that whether or not he made a bad decision in round two. Because he took Ward over Henry and Spriggs I am saying his board was bad for that point in the draft. And I do agree that a 2nd rounder should not be a project. Your 2nd round pick should have unrealized potential but still have had good production. Not just one game against Iowa. Larry Brown had one great game also.


Whatever jlieberum.

The only thing that has been proven is that Henry had a better rookie year. That wasn't the premise of the argument being made.

You can't judge a pick after one year IMO unless the stats and performance are extremely disproportionate. You need to look at the length of atleast the rookie deal to make that kind of judgement. Both the Dlinemen you compared Ward (Robinson and Reed) to had very similar stats and performances for 2016.

Because you are use to 2nd rders being starters and playing tons of snaps right away doesn't mean that is the metric that Reggie is looking at or expecting of the player when he drafts and I don't believe that was the goal for Ward especially in the beginning of the year.


That is what I said in my post but what also has been proven is that Henry and Spriggs produced in college and have unrealized talent on top of that. That is why I think they would have been better choices and had a greater chance to succeed. I am rooting for Ward and anyone else RM decides to draft because I am a loyal fan. I do trust RM but it does not mean mistakes are not going to be made and sometimes my choice would have been the better one. We can revisit this in a couple years and I hope you are correct.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1452
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
It's quite obvious they're not the same poster.


Is it though... Eh?


It is.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
It's quite obvious they're not the same poster.


Is it though... Eh?


It is.


I guess that is settled. Wink
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

robinson dt, reed dt, both higher than ward and spriggs ot 1 spot lower


So what?

We can go back and forth with the so called experts mocks and rankings but all that matters is what they bring to the team. 1 year in I'd be careful about condemning any pick.


I am not condemning the pick. Just stating that their were a couple choices that were obviously better. Ward has tons of potential and if he lives up to it he will be a beast. There were players with very high ceilings that produced in college. Henry and Spriggs would have been two great choices. I am not using hindsight either. Both of these players, among others that turned out well, where hyped by members of this board. Just go back and read the Ward selection thread. One third do not like the pick, a third say trust RM, and the other third talk about his potential or just the Iowa game.


You're still logged into your other account haha Shocked

Saying they were better IS using hindsight. If the choices of the members of this board were reflective of the front office than there would be no need for the draft section. It's also not taking into account the draft profiles that Reggie and co had on players which you wouldn't know. I can see a scenario where they counted on Ward taking time to become the player they envisioned and were willing to pass on players that may produce right away for the promise of what Ward would become.


Saying there were better choices is not using hindsight. It just means they had a greater chance of succeeding which they did do year 1 which means those who wanted Henry or Spriggs were at least correct in year 1. Stating that we do not know what RM's draft board was does not matter in this argument because we are arguing that whether or not he made a bad decision in round two. Because he took Ward over Henry and Spriggs I am saying his board was bad for that point in the draft. And I do agree that a 2nd rounder should not be a project. Your 2nd round pick should have unrealized potential but still have had good production. Not just one game against Iowa. Larry Brown had one great game also.


Whatever jlieberum.

The only thing that has been proven is that Henry had a better rookie year. That wasn't the premise of the argument being made.

You can't judge a pick after one year IMO unless the stats and performance are extremely disproportionate. You need to look at the length of atleast the rookie deal to make that kind of judgement. Both the Dlinemen you compared Ward (Robinson and Reed) to had very similar stats and performances for 2016.

Because you are use to 2nd rders being starters and playing tons of snaps right away doesn't mean that is the metric that Reggie is looking at or expecting of the player when he drafts and I don't believe that was the goal for Ward especially in the beginning of the year.


That is what I said in my post but what also has been proven is that Henry and Spriggs produced in college and have unrealized talent on top of that. That is why I think they would have been better choices and had a greater chance to succeed. I am rooting for Ward and anyone else RM decides to draft because I am a loyal fan. I do trust RM but it does not mean mistakes are not going to be made and sometimes my choice would have been the better one. We can revisit this in a couple years and I hope you are correct.


I know and if the premise of the discussion was who had the better rookie year than that is fine but that wasn't what I was getting at. I see what you are saying and Im glad you clarified that we'd have to wait to actually know which was a better pick.
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