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Who are you hoping is off the Browns's draft board?
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Who would you prefer the Browns take off their big board?
John Brown in first round 1-32 (injuries)
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Joe Mixon in first three rounds 1-107 (character)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Chad Kelly in all rounds (character)
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
Reuben Foster in first round 1-32 (positive test/combine)
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
Dalvin Cook in first two rounds 1-64 (character)
21%
 21%  [ 3 ]
Jonathon Allen top 10 (injury)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Kelly & Mixon only
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Cook & Mixon only
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cook, Mixon & Kelly
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cook, Mixon & Foster
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Mixon, Foster, Allen
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
All of them
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
All of them but Foster
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
All of them but Brown
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
All of them but Allen
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
All of them but Foster & Allen
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
All of them but Foster & Kelly
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
All of them but Foster, Kelly & Allen
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 14

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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

malibuspeedrace wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587746


Peppers......MORON
now completely out of the first round



I don't think he was ever in the first bro, what tangible asset does he bring to a team from down one beside his return abilities?
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buno67


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
malibuspeedrace wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587746


Peppers......MORON
now completely out of the first round



I don't think he was ever in the first bro, what tangible asset does he bring to a team from down one beside his return abilities?


I think he was going to be a late 1st rd pick. Go to a team that has the talent on their defense to cover up his issues. Now I think he will be drafted after 45
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
malibuspeedrace wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587746


Peppers......MORON
now completely out of the first round



I don't think he was ever in the first bro, what tangible asset does he bring to a team from down one beside his return abilities?


You're acting as if players aren't drafted based on projections all the time.

How many 3-4 OLB's were DE's in college? How many tackles play guard?

I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's not uncommon.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
MSURacerDT55 wrote:
malibuspeedrace wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587746


Peppers......MORON
now completely out of the first round



I don't think he was ever in the first bro, what tangible asset does he bring to a team from down one beside his return abilities?


You're acting as if players aren't drafted based on projections all the time.

How many 3-4 OLB's were DE's in college? How many tackles play guard?

I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's not uncommon.



100% true, but in most of those cases there is a threshold that most guys fall up under. He is way below that of a hybrid backer type. Most of the time its usually a 6'3 215 type, he's 5'10 212 and though supremely athletic, is very unphysical vs the run, and overaggressive vs the pass. Thats all, if he blows up I will no question sing his praises and to the defensive coordinator who schemed it up
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roger murdock


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
malibuspeedrace wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587746


Peppers......MORON
now completely out of the first round



I don't think he was ever in the first bro, what tangible asset does he bring to a team from down one beside his return abilities?


He has incredible athleticism and playmaking. He was stretched too thin at Michigan. But hes shown flashes of good coverage and good tackling.

I think hes the product of too much hype early leading to people only seeing what hes not. Hes basically a better Sua Cravens and Cravens was a legit 2nd rounder and was having a good season prior to injury.

Do I want Peppers at 12 - hell no. But I'd be tempted at 33.

You know that kid in Highschool whos the best athlete and is the best player no matter where you line him up? That was him on one of the best defensives in the country.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
MSURacerDT55 wrote:
malibuspeedrace wrote:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587746


Peppers......MORON
now completely out of the first round



I don't think he was ever in the first bro, what tangible asset does he bring to a team from down one beside his return abilities?


You're acting as if players aren't drafted based on projections all the time.

How many 3-4 OLB's were DE's in college? How many tackles play guard?

I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's not uncommon.


I think its different comparing 3-4 OLB's were DE's in college. They are looking for a specific skill to translate, the most important trait, getting after the QB. If their was a college DE and he was under sized and didnt get sacks, he woulnt be viewed as a 3/4 LB at all. Example is on our roster. Orchard doesnt have the size to be a 4/3 DE but he could rush the QB.

You look at Peppers a lot of the skills they want to translate, he really doesnt have. Like all the major skills you would want from a safety or a LB he doesnt have. He has the minor skills you would like. Like you look at him at LB, he isnt great at taking on blocks and isnt good at shedding the blocks, and he tends to over run the ball career. He is pretty good at blitzing and making easy reads when he is unblocked but I am not going to draft a LB who lacks in those areas I stated and excell in the other ones. Look at him as a safety and its same. He isnt all that great in coverage, specially when the receiver is bigger than him and doesnt have great ball skills either. If I am drafting a safety I would want a guy who can cover or at least make a play on the ball when its in the air that allows him to recover. Like to me you look at Hooker, he has some holes in his game but he has elite ball hawking ability, a skill that makes or breaks safeties.

You look at a hybrid and to me that is a player who is good enough to play two positions. Tweeners is someone who isnt good enough at a single position. I say Peppers is more of a tweener than a hybrid player
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H2ThaIzzo


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakygeniuskid wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/03/13/greg-gabriel-is-a-quarterbacks-velocity-an-indicator-of-how-good-he-will-be-in-the-nfl/a93ef5p/


Just need to point out that this guy very much comes off as an, "I've been in football forever! How I did it in the 70s is the only way! Get your numbers out of here! Nutrition?!? Give em more brats, they'll be great!" dude. Seriously, we have no data? There's ten years now of combine velocity data. It's not enough to guarantee a result either way, but data never is! It's not there to tell you 100% who is and isn't going to be good, guys will always break the mold. It's there to tell you who is riskier than you might think.

Legitimately, I can't imagine a more anti-measurable article. And while I think some people don't know how to apply measurables and use them wisely in evaluation, it's even more ridiculous to stick your fingers in your ears and act like they don't exist.


there were around 10 first round QB's that didn't even throw at their combine, and didn't have their "velocity" tested. it's a pretty weak thought process to identify as translating to successful QB's.
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freakygeniuskid


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
there were around 10 first round QB's that didn't even throw at their combine, and didn't have their "velocity" tested. it's a pretty weak thought process to identify as translating to successful QB's.


Saying not everyone is tested so we can't make inferences from those who are would mean that all testing numbers would be, to some degree, invalid. So, no need to have a combine at all other than medical and interviews.

We're not going to agree about this. You don't believe measurables should have any role in the process, I think they're a valuable tool. If my list earlier where a total of one confirmed sub-55 MPH guy has had any kind of success in the last decade didn't convince you, there aren't any #'s I can provide that will. Especially when I'm not even saying "Guy who everyone thinks has a cannon has a weak arm". I'm saying, "guy everyone acknowledges to have a meh to slightly below average arm actually seems to have a well below average arm."
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakygeniuskid wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
there were around 10 first round QB's that didn't even throw at their combine, and didn't have their "velocity" tested. it's a pretty weak thought process to identify as translating to successful QB's.


Saying not everyone is tested so we can't make inferences from those who are would mean that all testing numbers would be, to some degree, invalid. So, no need to have a combine at all other than medical and interviews.

We're not going to agree about this. You don't believe measurables should have any role in the process, I think they're a valuable tool. If my list earlier where a total of one confirmed sub-55 MPH guy has had any kind of success in the last decade didn't convince you, there aren't any #'s I can provide that will. Especially when I'm not even saying "Guy who everyone thinks has a cannon has a weak arm". I'm saying, "guy everyone acknowledges to have a meh to slightly below average arm actually seems to have a well below average arm."


Tbh I never once questioned his arm and never really heard anyone else either until the combine.

Not saying he has a cannon, but his "film" doesn't show that.
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H2ThaIzzo


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakygeniuskid wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
there were around 10 first round QB's that didn't even throw at their combine, and didn't have their "velocity" tested. it's a pretty weak thought process to identify as translating to successful QB's.


Saying not everyone is tested so we can't make inferences from those who are would mean that all testing numbers would be, to some degree, invalid. So, no need to have a combine at all other than medical and interviews.

We're not going to agree about this. You don't believe measurables should have any role in the process, I think they're a valuable tool. If my list earlier where a total of one confirmed sub-55 MPH guy has had any kind of success in the last decade didn't convince you, there aren't any #'s I can provide that will. Especially when I'm not even saying "Guy who everyone thinks has a cannon has a weak arm". I'm saying, "guy everyone acknowledges to have a meh to slightly below average arm actually seems to have a well below average arm."


Hypothetically let's say that Matt Ryan throws at the combine and his velocity is 51 MPH. Does that mean that Matt Ryan doesn't become the player he has because of velocity? I've seen Mike Glennon play, and his velocity is a hell of a lot higher than 49 MPH.

I'm pretty sure any competent football fan that's watched Watson play football has seen plenty of throws he's made that can confirm arm strength isn't a concern. Decision making I can get behind, but arm strength, no way.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2, I rarely disagree with you. However, I do on Watsons arm strength.
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H2ThaIzzo


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
H2, I rarely disagree with you. However, I do on Watsons arm strength.


I saw him threading needles all night against Bama's defense. He threw some perfect corner routes and ball placement between and over the defenders was stunning. He does get a little lazy with his legs on some throws, which I think is where he gets himself in trouble a lot of the time. Even on placement type throws, you've got to get that leverage out of your legs to have the right power behind the ball. He also tucks his left arm kinda early which I think is why his accuracy can be questioned at times.

I like him, I don't love him.

Good news though, I see no knee inversion in him!
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buno67


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
H2, I rarely disagree with you. However, I do on Watsons arm strength.


I saw him threading needles all night against Bama's defense. He threw some perfect corner routes and ball placement between and over the defenders was stunning. He does get a little lazy with his legs on some throws, which I think is where he gets himself in trouble a lot of the time. Even on placement type throws, you've got to get that leverage out of your legs to have the right power behind the ball. He also tucks his left arm kinda early which I think is why his accuracy can be questioned at times.

I like him, I don't love him.

Good news though, I see no knee inversion in him!


He threw some nice passes against Bama but Bama has a garbage secondary IMO. The tough throws he made against Bama were the throws he was missing vs tOSU. One of his worse games in his career was vs tOSU and it doesnt surprise me because tOSU has an NFL secondary. Watson had success when Williams was going up against Ward (tOSUs 3rd best DB) and throwing the short quick passes. When he had to make the NFL type throws vs tOSU he didnt really have that much success.

To me you are more likely to throw for 400+ yards on Bama than rush for 100+ yards. Bama gets away with its suspect secondary by having an amazing/elite front 7 but in the title game that Bama front 7 wasnt really a factor. Allen didnt make an impact vs Clemson. That Clemson OL had a hell of a playoff run. They controlled the tOSU front 7 and the Bama front 7.

I dont hate Watson. Hell, if by some chance he was there for the Browns 2nd, 2nd rd draft pick, I would love to draft him there
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
freakygeniuskid wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/03/13/greg-gabriel-is-a-quarterbacks-velocity-an-indicator-of-how-good-he-will-be-in-the-nfl/a93ef5p/


Just need to point out that this guy very much comes off as an, "I've been in football forever! How I did it in the 70s is the only way! Get your numbers out of here! Nutrition?!? Give em more brats, they'll be great!" dude. Seriously, we have no data? There's ten years now of combine velocity data. It's not enough to guarantee a result either way, but data never is! It's not there to tell you 100% who is and isn't going to be good, guys will always break the mold. It's there to tell you who is riskier than you might think.

Legitimately, I can't imagine a more anti-measurable article. And while I think some people don't know how to apply measurables and use them wisely in evaluation, it's even more ridiculous to stick your fingers in your ears and act like they don't exist.


there were around 10 first round QB's that didn't even throw at their combine, and didn't have their "velocity" tested. it's a pretty weak thought process to identify as translating to successful QB's.


I could care less what a "test" says about velocity, I care about what I see on film. I did not watch the videos with a stopwatch in hand timing anything. I watched the action, and I saw a ball sailing through the air at a slower velocity than what I want from a QB that I draft in round 1 of a loaded draft. Simple as that.
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roger murdock


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Watson drives his passes pretty well. I never heard the weak armed stuff until the cobine.
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