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Lets trade up from 12 who do you want??
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If we do a trade up from 12 who do you want to draft?
Whoever is your preferred QB
17%
 17%  [ 6 ]
Jonathan Allen
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Jamal Adams
22%
 22%  [ 8 ]
Malik Hooker
51%
 51%  [ 18 ]
Marathon Lattimore
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Solomon Thomas
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Reuben Foster
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Other please specify
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 35

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TitanTuff


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:



Sound good?


It is pretty close to fair. Probably have to seen back a mid round pick. Still, I don't think we could blindly make that trade. Someone we really covet would have to be sitting there on draft day.



Maybe Brock is the guy. That opens up the possibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801004/article/sashi-brown-on-osweiler-we-expect-brock-to-be-here
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanTuff wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:



Sound good?


It is pretty close to fair. Probably have to seen back a mid round pick. Still, I don't think we could blindly make that trade. Someone we really covet would have to be sitting there on draft day.



Maybe Brock is the guy. That opens up the possibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801004/article/sashi-brown-on-osweiler-we-expect-brock-to-be-here


Kessler is probably a lot better option than Osweiler. If Cody had more zip on his passes I wouldn't have to worry about the QB position until his contract expired.
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AkronsWitness


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
AkronsWitness wrote:


Also, Buno--Yes, Hooker has single coverage questions. Mostly all of his great plays or INTs came from single high coverage where he could play freely and not cover 1v1 a whole lot. Ed Reed comparisons stop when you look at tackling. What made him great was that he was also a absolute enforcer. Hooker is far from that. This is not a dig at Hooker but more of a endorsement of Adams. I think you are severely underrating him. I think Adams could go as high as the 3rd pick in the draft and that is for a reason. He could very easily be a Earl Thomas/Eric Berry clone. There are still a lot of questions with Hooker which is why he is unanimously ranked behind Adams on experts draft boards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktuijMDwsh8



Yes there are some questions with his coverage ability because of his experience. Specially with not seeing some route combinations but I dont remember seeing ever truly getting beat in single coverage when he had to play it. You didnt see a lot of people truly beating to get over the top on him or him getting beat for a lot of passes when he was covering a guy.

Why does everyone think Hooker is an awful tackler? He wasnt bad at making tackles. He had some bad form when it came to making tackles but he did show a great ability to come down into the alley and try and lay the wood. He was a first year starter and his tackling was improve IMO. By the time Ed Reed was a senior, yeah he was a monster in the passing and running game. I also never said he was going to be the next Ed Reed, I said he has some abilities that compare to Reed. Mainly the abilities to ball hawk, break up passes, break any pass thrown some what near him and just in general make play on any ball that is thrown near him.

I think adams is pretty great and I would love to have him but I believe Hooker is a better fit for Williams defense. WIlliams loves to play that single high type coverage. Kinda like at tOSU. With the Corners Schiano/Fickell had to work with, they liked playing man to man on the outside and force teams to beat you inside and underneath. Thats the same mentality Williams had. Hell you look at the success he had with the saints, that what he did. He wanted teams to beat him with the short routes because if you tried to go over the top Sharper was going to make you pay. Because of that teams did not like attacking the middle of the field or deep parts of it. Best example, go to the Colts Saint superbowl and watch the game sealing INT return for a touch down. Manning tried to throw the slant that was jumped by the corners. If you watch the play, you see Dallas Clark coming open over the middle but then you see Sharper was in the picture. So Manning knew going over the middle doesnt work with.

With the idea of having Ogbah and Garrett as the DEs and them forcing QBs to throw some bad passes, early passes, or errant passes, that having a rangy FS would be the best tool for Williams. I also believe he likes the ideas of man corners who have the ability to make great breaks on the ball and no worried about getting beat deep because of the safety help he likes to have. He prefers teams throwing quick on him and allowing his DBs to break on the slants, outs, ins, hooks, and etc.

Adams might be the better. more well rounded safety. I think Hooker has the better pass defense. I think Hooker has the potential to make more play in the passing defense. That could potential allow the SS to play more in the box or allows the Browns to draft a SS who is a better run defender than pass defender but dont get me wrong, I dont want a "LB" playing SS


- True, he is a great deep safety.
- Hooker missed 13 tackles last season. Hes a bad tackler from a production and technique stand point. There is no getting around it. All good safetys--Collins, Berry, Ward, Chancellor, Thomas, Jones, Dawkins, Polamalu, Lynch, Sanders, Taylor, Reed ALL are/were tremendous tackers. There is not a perennial pro bowl Safety you can name that doesnt excel in tackling and who was 'just a ballhawk'
- Agreed, yet Jamal Adams is still a very good cover safety with almost no holes in his game. He had 6 pass breakups, 2 forced fumbles, 8 tackles for loss and INT. Plus he has the athletic ability to play slot CB, FS and SS. Hooker cant. He is a deep middle roaming safety who is lackluster around the LOS. Plus, the thing we are leaving out is that Adams is a tremendous vocal leader. Something the Browns dont have on their team.

Because of his versatility, he will make plays frequently. With Williams, he can line up in the slot, blitz, play deep or roam around the middle of the field. You can literally line him up anywhere and he will be able to make plays. I love Hooker because like everybody else, Im a OSU fan--but the realist football fan in me says there is no way he is better than Adams and the more I think about the ?s that surround Hooker from his injury, tackling, short playing career--you might get your wish with him being there at 12. If there is a player projected in the top 10 who could slide out, its him because of the ?s and development he still has to go through
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care if a guy is a vocal leader, I want a great player.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:

- True, he is a great deep safety.


not even just a great deep safety. He made plays in the passing game at all levels except for the LOS, which is something I wouldnt expect from a safety

AkronsWitness wrote:

- Hooker missed 13 tackles last season. Hes a bad tackler from a production and technique stand point. There is no getting around it. All good safetys--Collins, Berry, Ward, Chancellor, Thomas, Jones, Dawkins, Polamalu, Lynch, Sanders, Taylor, Reed ALL are/were tremendous tackers. There is not a perennial pro bowl Safety you can name that doesnt excel in tackling and who was 'just a ballhawk'

Berry and Reed are the only ones who you can say coming out of college had equal or better coverage ability to Hooker. Also every one of them played more than one year. If Hooker was at tOSU longer, I would say his tackling would greatly improve from year 1 to year 2. Also a lot of the guys you are naming are SS and not FS. I think a guy can improve more on their tackling then they can improve on their "ball hawk skills". Also you can hide Hooker's tackling ability.

AkronsWitness wrote:

- Agreed, yet Jamal Adams is still a very good cover safety with almost no holes in his game. He had 6 pass breakups, 2 forced fumbles, 8 tackles for loss and INT. Plus he has the athletic ability to play slot CB, FS and SS. Hooker cant. He is a deep middle roaming safety who is lackluster around the LOS. Plus, the thing we are leaving out is that Adams is a tremendous vocal leader. Something the Browns dont have on their team.


The only position I would question Hooker at is SS but with a guys ability, why would I want to waste him playing near the line. Hooker can play slot corner. Dude is an amazing athlete. To come in and do what he did in his first year starting at tOSU shows how amazing of an athlete he is. I dont care about a vocal leader. You dont need cheer"leaders".

AkronsWitness wrote:

Because of his versatility, he will make plays frequently. With Williams, he can line up in the slot, blitz, play deep or roam around the middle of the field. You can literally line him up anywhere and he will be able to make plays. I love Hooker because like everybody else, Im a OSU fan--but the realist football fan in me says there is no way he is better than Adams and the more I think about the ?s that surround Hooker from his injury, tackling, short playing career--you might get your wish with him being there at 12. If there is a player projected in the top 10 who could slide out, its him because of the ?s and development he still has to go through


He could do all those things but Hooker brings in one thing that Williams loves to play. He loves to play a single high safety, specially one who can cover the entire middle of the field or 2/3s of the field depending on where the ball is place. Having that kind of abilites allows him to really mess with the coverage of everyone else. It also allows the DBs to play more aggressive during certain calls because they know they are going to have amazing over the top help.

He might slide because he needs to be developed more? Dude is already pretty darn good and already possess elite skills, that some safeties dont have and you are telling me he is going to get even better. I dont see him sliding that far if you ask me.

I would be happy with either or but I just think Hooker fits better in what Williams wants. Williams to me wants a FS who will do things that Sharper did in 2009. I think getting Garrett and Hooker will make Williams a happy man because you have book end DEs who will force QBs into making bad passes and you have a safety who will make QBs pay for making bad passes
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:



Sound good?


It is pretty close to fair. Probably have to seen back a mid round pick. Still, I don't think we could blindly make that trade. Someone we really covet would have to be sitting there on draft day.



Maybe Brock is the guy. That opens up the possibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801004/article/sashi-brown-on-osweiler-we-expect-brock-to-be-here


Kessler is probably a lot better option than Osweiler. If Cody had more zip on his passes I wouldn't have to worry about the QB position until his contract expired.


Good interview of Kessler:

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/1771792-kessler-not-taking-anything-for-granted

Liking what he had to say.
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H2ThaIzzo


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:



Sound good?


It is pretty close to fair. Probably have to seen back a mid round pick. Still, I don't think we could blindly make that trade. Someone we really covet would have to be sitting there on draft day.



Maybe Brock is the guy. That opens up the possibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801004/article/sashi-brown-on-osweiler-we-expect-brock-to-be-here


Kessler is probably a lot better option than Osweiler. If Cody had more zip on his passes I wouldn't have to worry about the QB position until his contract expired.


Good interview of Kessler:

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/1771792-kessler-not-taking-anything-for-granted

Liking what he had to say.


I liked it too. Funny the Cleveland media seems to think its not possible for a QB to increase the amount of time they spend in the weight room and see it translate to a stronger arm during the season. So legs can get stronger. core can get stronger. a defensive player can increase their arm power for leverage playing against their opponent. but nope, a QB can't possibly add some strength to their throwing arm.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:



Sound good?


It is pretty close to fair. Probably have to seen back a mid round pick. Still, I don't think we could blindly make that trade. Someone we really covet would have to be sitting there on draft day.



Maybe Brock is the guy. That opens up the possibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801004/article/sashi-brown-on-osweiler-we-expect-brock-to-be-here


Kessler is probably a lot better option than Osweiler. If Cody had more zip on his passes I wouldn't have to worry about the QB position until his contract expired.


Good interview of Kessler:

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/1771792-kessler-not-taking-anything-for-granted

Liking what he had to say.


I liked it too. Funny the Cleveland media seems to think its not possible for a QB to increase the amount of time they spend in the weight room and see it translate to a stronger arm during the season. So legs can get stronger. core can get stronger. a defensive player can increase their arm power for leverage playing against their opponent. but nope, a QB can't possibly add some strength to their throwing arm.


Wasn't Rogers' arm strength a question when he was drafted?
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AkronsWitness


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
I don't care if a guy is a vocal leader, I want a great player.


Jamal Adams is a great player...hence why he projected to go top 5 as a Safety.

Buno--Im not going to CC that huge post for the sake of room, but good post. I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I am just coming from the angle that I prefer Adams because he is more of sure thing. Borderlining cant miss. The Browns cant take a chance on a guy like Hooker, though who has a incredibly high ceiling, in the top 10-12 of the draft with all of the questions surrounding him and development he has to go through.

Same way people love OJ Howard because of his 'right now' and high floor--Jamal Adams is the same thing. Hooker may turn out to be a perennial pro bowl stud, but I dont want to take that chance with all of his question marks that may or may not be solved. Not when the Browns need all of the cant miss 'right now contributor' prospects they can get their hands on.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
TitanTuff wrote:



Sound good?


It is pretty close to fair. Probably have to seen back a mid round pick. Still, I don't think we could blindly make that trade. Someone we really covet would have to be sitting there on draft day.



Maybe Brock is the guy. That opens up the possibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801004/article/sashi-brown-on-osweiler-we-expect-brock-to-be-here


Kessler is probably a lot better option than Osweiler. If Cody had more zip on his passes I wouldn't have to worry about the QB position until his contract expired.


Good interview of Kessler:

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/1771792-kessler-not-taking-anything-for-granted

Liking what he had to say.


I liked it too. Funny the Cleveland media seems to think its not possible for a QB to increase the amount of time they spend in the weight room and see it translate to a stronger arm during the season. So legs can get stronger. core can get stronger. a defensive player can increase their arm power for leverage playing against their opponent. but nope, a QB can't possibly add some strength to their throwing arm.


Wasn't Rogers' arm strength a question when he was drafted?


A question? Not at all.

It's just gotten stronger since he's been in the league.

He had plenty of arm strength.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I don't care if a guy is a vocal leader, I want a great player.


Jamal Adams is a great player...hence why he projected to go top 5 as a Safety.

Buno--Im not going to CC that huge post for the sake of room, but good post. I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I am just coming from the angle that I prefer Adams because he is more of sure thing. Borderlining cant miss. The Browns cant take a chance on a guy like Hooker, though who has a incredibly high ceiling, in the top 10-12 of the draft with all of the questions surrounding him and development he has to go through.

Same way people love OJ Howard because of his 'right now' and high floor--Jamal Adams is the same thing. Hooker may turn out to be a perennial pro bowl stud, but I dont want to take that chance with all of his question marks that may or may not be solved. Not when the Browns need all of the cant miss 'right now contributor' prospects they can get their hands on.


I cant use that term "cant miss" there is no such thing as a sure thing, specially when it comes to the NFL. TRich was suppose to be a sure thing or at least a something. Aaron Curry was talked about as one of the safest picks of all time.

IMO taking Hooker, isnt taking a chance. To make, a taking a chance guy is drafting a guy that you really dont have a plan for or you really dont know how to use him. To me that kind of player is Jabrill Peppers, he is the taking the chance because you believe you could find a spot for him and might be able to utilize his skills. To me with Hooker, you could plug and play from day one because you know he can play FS, you can at least a couple of coverages, mainly a single high look and tell him to go make a play. To me that is not taking a chance because you have an idea on how you are going to use him.

I believe Adams and hooker are both plug and play day one starters. One at FS and one at SS. Either one will make an impact. I just like the ball hawk better. I rather have the safety who can make a bigger impact on the passing game than running game. Thats how I perferr my safety.

Also looking at the roster. I think a Combine of...

FS Hooker
SS Campbell/Powell

would be better than

FS Reynolds/Caldwell
SS Adams

unless the Browns are looking to find both of their starting safeties in the draft this year
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brownie man


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
AkronsWitness wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I don't care if a guy is a vocal leader, I want a great player.


Jamal Adams is a great player...hence why he projected to go top 5 as a Safety.

Buno--Im not going to CC that huge post for the sake of room, but good post. I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I am just coming from the angle that I prefer Adams because he is more of sure thing. Borderlining cant miss. The Browns cant take a chance on a guy like Hooker, though who has a incredibly high ceiling, in the top 10-12 of the draft with all of the questions surrounding him and development he has to go through.

Same way people love OJ Howard because of his 'right now' and high floor--Jamal Adams is the same thing. Hooker may turn out to be a perennial pro bowl stud, but I dont want to take that chance with all of his question marks that may or may not be solved. Not when the Browns need all of the cant miss 'right now contributor' prospects they can get their hands on.


I cant use that term "cant miss" there is no such thing as a sure thing, specially when it comes to the NFL. TRich was suppose to be a sure thing or at least a something. Aaron Curry was talked about as one of the safest picks of all time.

IMO taking Hooker, isnt taking a chance. To make, a taking a chance guy is drafting a guy that you really dont have a plan for or you really dont know how to use him. To me that kind of player is Jabrill Peppers, he is the taking the chance because you believe you could find a spot for him and might be able to utilize his skills. To me with Hooker, you could plug and play from day one because you know he can play FS, you can at least a couple of coverages, mainly a single high look and tell him to go make a play. To me that is not taking a chance because you have an idea on how you are going to use him.

I believe Adams and hooker are both plug and play day one starters. One at FS and one at SS. Either one will make an impact. I just like the ball hawk better. I rather have the safety who can make a bigger impact on the passing game than running game. Thats how I perferr my safety.

Also looking at the roster. I think a Combine of...

FS Hooker
SS Campbell/Powell

would be better than

FS Reynolds/Caldwell
SS Adams

unless the Browns are looking to find both of their starting safeties in the draft this year



^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes! This! This is why I want Hooker even more. I feel Kindred actually showed a lot of ability last year before he got injured. I hope and expect we will draft a set of safeties, but I do like Kindred and Campbell as guys to compete with our draft picks more than Reynolds and the guy from Miami the UDFA.
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brownie man


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
AkronsWitness wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I don't care if a guy is a vocal leader, I want a great player.


Jamal Adams is a great player...hence why he projected to go top 5 as a Safety.

Buno--Im not going to CC that huge post for the sake of room, but good post. I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I am just coming from the angle that I prefer Adams because he is more of sure thing. Borderlining cant miss. The Browns cant take a chance on a guy like Hooker, though who has a incredibly high ceiling, in the top 10-12 of the draft with all of the questions surrounding him and development he has to go through.

Same way people love OJ Howard because of his 'right now' and high floor--Jamal Adams is the same thing. Hooker may turn out to be a perennial pro bowl stud, but I dont want to take that chance with all of his question marks that may or may not be solved. Not when the Browns need all of the cant miss 'right now contributor' prospects they can get their hands on.


I cant use that term "cant miss" there is no such thing as a sure thing, specially when it comes to the NFL. TRich was suppose to be a sure thing or at least a something. Aaron Curry was talked about as one of the safest picks of all time.

IMO taking Hooker, isnt taking a chance. To make, a taking a chance guy is drafting a guy that you really dont have a plan for or you really dont know how to use him. To me that kind of player is Jabrill Peppers, he is the taking the chance because you believe you could find a spot for him and might be able to utilize his skills. To me with Hooker, you could plug and play from day one because you know he can play FS, you can at least a couple of coverages, mainly a single high look and tell him to go make a play. To me that is not taking a chance because you have an idea on how you are going to use him.

I believe Adams and hooker are both plug and play day one starters. One at FS and one at SS. Either one will make an impact. I just like the ball hawk better. I rather have the safety who can make a bigger impact on the passing game than running game. Thats how I perferr my safety.

Also looking at the roster. I think a Combine of...

FS Hooker
SS Campbell/Powell

would be better than

FS Reynolds/Caldwell
SS Adams

unless the Browns are looking to find both of their starting safeties in the draft this year



^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes! This! This is why I want Hooker even more. I feel Kindred actually showed a lot of ability last year before he got injured. I hope and expect we will draft a set of safeties, but I do like Kindred and Campbell as guys to compete with our draft picks more than Reynolds and the guy from Miami the UDFA.
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Deshone Kizer, Malik Hooker, Carlos Watkins, Adoree Jackson, Budda Baker, TJ Watt, Montravius Adams, Ryan Switzer, Kendall Beckwith, Davis Webb, Des Lawrence, Shelton Gibson, Jamaal Williams, Bucky Hodges
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freakygeniuskid


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanTuff wrote:


Sound good?


As others have noted, the key words in there are, "old trade value chart". The FO has made it very, very clear that they are buying into the newer charts that value mid 1st-early 4th round picks much higher, and top of round 1 picks lower, than the old chart.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownie man wrote:
buno67 wrote:
AkronsWitness wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I don't care if a guy is a vocal leader, I want a great player.


Jamal Adams is a great player...hence why he projected to go top 5 as a Safety.

Buno--Im not going to CC that huge post for the sake of room, but good post. I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I am just coming from the angle that I prefer Adams because he is more of sure thing. Borderlining cant miss. The Browns cant take a chance on a guy like Hooker, though who has a incredibly high ceiling, in the top 10-12 of the draft with all of the questions surrounding him and development he has to go through.

Same way people love OJ Howard because of his 'right now' and high floor--Jamal Adams is the same thing. Hooker may turn out to be a perennial pro bowl stud, but I dont want to take that chance with all of his question marks that may or may not be solved. Not when the Browns need all of the cant miss 'right now contributor' prospects they can get their hands on.


I cant use that term "cant miss" there is no such thing as a sure thing, specially when it comes to the NFL. TRich was suppose to be a sure thing or at least a something. Aaron Curry was talked about as one of the safest picks of all time.

IMO taking Hooker, isnt taking a chance. To make, a taking a chance guy is drafting a guy that you really dont have a plan for or you really dont know how to use him. To me that kind of player is Jabrill Peppers, he is the taking the chance because you believe you could find a spot for him and might be able to utilize his skills. To me with Hooker, you could plug and play from day one because you know he can play FS, you can at least a couple of coverages, mainly a single high look and tell him to go make a play. To me that is not taking a chance because you have an idea on how you are going to use him.

I believe Adams and hooker are both plug and play day one starters. One at FS and one at SS. Either one will make an impact. I just like the ball hawk better. I rather have the safety who can make a bigger impact on the passing game than running game. Thats how I perferr my safety.

Also looking at the roster. I think a Combine of...

FS Hooker
SS Campbell/Powell

would be better than

FS Reynolds/Caldwell
SS Adams

unless the Browns are looking to find both of their starting safeties in the draft this year



^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes! This! This is why I want Hooker even more. I feel Kindred actually showed a lot of ability last year before he got injured. I hope and expect we will draft a set of safeties, but I do like Kindred and Campbell as guys to compete with our draft picks more than Reynolds and the guy from Miami the UDFA.


I also think its easier to find a legit SS than a legit FS
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