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With the 12th pick in the NFL Draft...
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The Cleveland Browns Select?
Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
33%
 33%  [ 3 ]
DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
David Njoku, TE, Miami (FL)
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
John Ross, WR, Washington
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Garrett Bolles, OT, Utah
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Forrest Lamp, OG, Western Kentucky
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Jabrill Peppers, S, Michigan
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 9

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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: With the 12th pick in the NFL Draft... Reply with quote

1. Cleveland Browns: Myles Garrett, EDGE, Texas A&M
2. San Francisco 49ers: Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford
3. Chicago Bears: Jonathan Allen, DE, Alabama
4. Jacksonville Jaguars: Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
5. Tennessee Titans: Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
6. New York Jets: Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
7. Los Angeles Chargers: Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State
8. Carolina Panthers: Jamal Adams, S, LSU
9. Cincinnati Bengals: Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
10. Buffalo Bills: Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State
11. New Orleans Saints: Reuben Foster, LB, Alabama
12. Cleveland Browns: ?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote Dalvin Cook, I don't care what people say, he's bigger and stronger than McCaffery and maybe not as versatile but he's no slouch. Plus, I want the running backs off the board so we don't take them over a defender! Laughing

I passed on the Qbs for the Browns at this point because the only truly worth taking that high - based on scouts & teams analysis' not mine - is Trubinsky and for some reason this forum thinks the Jets will take another qb early in the draft when they just ran through the 33rd pick? (Geno Smith) And they then took a qb in round 3 (Petty) and last year in round 2 again(Hackenberg). It's time for one of those two to play so the Jets can truly know if they have a chance at being a starter.

So, they could take an OT but I think they could wait a round for that and those guys are BPA. They could take OJ Howard and probably should but they have Gary Brarnidge who's good if he has an average qb throwing him the ball. They have some WRs and even a few good backs but I feel Cook is the BPA other than Howard but I think Cook will have a bigger impact.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted OJ Howard. I think he's the BPA and they need everything.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
I really feel like they are going the 76ers route, where they are willing to keep tanking until the right QB prospect comes along. I don't see them using any of their top picks on a QB in this weak class.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
I really feel like they are going the 76ers route, where they are willing to keep tanking until the right QB prospect comes along. I don't see them using any of their top picks on a QB in this weak class.


That only works if:
1. The owner is okay with losing, and losing badly, over a sustained period of time. Yes, the Browns have not been a very good team, but to pull a "Sixer," you need to flat out suck for multiple years. That does damage not only to your ticket sales, but also to attracting talent in terms of the players, coaching staff, and front office people. The Browns last year were competitive and feisty (they gave us a game), but were derailed by having six starting QBs including the Redskins newest starting WR.

2. You are able to hit on all of your other picks in the mean time. Remember, unlike the NBA where one pick represents 20% of the players on the court at any one time, a QB represents only 2% of a team's roster (discounting specialists). Also, the QB can really only contribute to half of a team's performance (you're not going to see a QB on defense unless the head coach is certifiably insane). Yes, it is arguably the singular most important 2% on the team, but in the end, it is still just 2%. Remember, Andrew Luck is arguably the best QB prospect to come out in nearly a generation, but he's hampered by the fact the Colts cannot build a line to protect him.


Also, keep in mind:
1. Sam Hinkie was forced out before they ended up with #1 pick in the 2016 draft that netted them Ben Simmons.

2. The 76ers are STILL sucking. Granted they've had their best season since the strike year, but they were still 28-54 (0.341) and 25 games out of first place.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have to get a quarterback this draft but none are worthy here. I predict a trade back to accumulate even more picks like 2 or 3 this year and 1 next year where they can get a franchise QB next year too
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
They have to get a quarterback this draft but none are worthy here. I predict a trade back to accumulate even more picks like 2 or 3 this year and 1 next year where they can get a franchise QB next year too


I would predict the opposite. Packaging 12 and 33 to move up to 5 and grab Trubisky before the Jets can do so.

The Jets are so unpredictable about their direction considering they have Petty (4th round) who has not shown much in terms of being able to produce on offense and Christian Hackenberg (2nd round) who has been on the bench but been given accolades to the strides he has made this offseason.

Then the Jets signed Josh McCown, to be the 17 starter in case the others are not ready, which is likely.

RB is a huge need because Forte is all but done and Powell cant be consistent. But Fournette is likely gone to the Jags at 4 with Chris Ivory getting paid a lot of money but not healthy a lot and T.J. Yeldon being ineffective when given the chance to start.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
They have to get a quarterback this draft but none are worthy here. I predict a trade back to accumulate even more picks like 2 or 3 this year and 1 next year where they can get a franchise QB next year too


I would predict the opposite. Packaging 12 and 33 to move up to 5 and grab Trubisky before the Jets can do so.

The Jets are so unpredictable about their direction considering they have Petty (4th round) who has not shown much in terms of being able to produce on offense and Christian Hackenberg (2nd round) who has been on the bench but been given accolades to the strides he has made this offseason.

Then the Jets signed Josh McCown, to be the 17 starter in case the others are not ready, which is likely.

RB is a huge need because Forte is all but done and Powell cant be consistent. But Fournette is likely gone to the Jags at 4 with Chris Ivory getting paid a lot of money but not healthy a lot and T.J. Yeldon being ineffective when given the chance to start.


If you're Tennessee's GM, I think you jump on that deal. When we were debating the pick for the Titans, it came down to a choice between Lattimore or Mike Williams. There's a small chance that Williams might fall to #12 (Buffalo is likely the main worry), but there is also Corey Davis (who I kind of like better personally ... then again, I have a soft spot for smaller school guys) who is very like to be there. If the Titan truly coveted Williams but wanted to take the deal, they could probably talk Carolina into flipping #8 for #12 and their 1st of two 3rd rounders.

Question is whether Cleveland makes that move, or sits back. Another option for Cleveland would be to take someone like Howard at 12, and then use 33 as a spring board to the low 20s (say 33 + the aforementioned 3rd (83) to Detroit's 22?). All things being equal, they probably want their QB drafted in the first so they have the 5th year option. They probably also want to get their choice of guy ahead of the Texans along with the other teams in the latter part of the first round that could take a QB to park for the future (Giants, Chiefs, Steelers, and Saints).
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
Perhaps they should try to trade down but stay in front of the teams in the 20s. I just don't see the value in taking any of the Qbs but Trubinsky in the top 15. All the Qbs (Trubinsky included because before last year he was a back up) have potential to be starters but none have consistently shown that ability through their college careers.

The Browns made a mistake in passing on wentz last year, they made a mistake in drafting Johnny Manziel. They really can't afford to make another mistake when drafting a qb.

They're basically a worse version of the Redskins since before the 2012 season and then the 2015-2017 seasons at QB. The Browns haven't even had as much success qb wise as the Redskins the last 1/4 century which is saying a hell of a lot!

Truthfully, the best thing for them would be to continue to ride Cody Kessler one more year just to see what happens. Hugh Jackson likes Kessler, and if Kessler gets to develop the way Cousins did he may turn into a top 15 starter within a few more years. If they can continue to build a good young team around Kessler, they may end up having a playoff team or better by 2019 or 2020.

Let's face it, the Steelers and Ravens are going to be in rebuild mode by then so the Browns and the Bengals could be battling it out for the division in 2020.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
They have to get a quarterback this draft but none are worthy here. I predict a trade back to accumulate even more picks like 2 or 3 this year and 1 next year where they can get a franchise QB next year too


I would predict the opposite. Packaging 12 and 33 to move up to 5 and grab Trubisky before the Jets can do so.

The Jets are so unpredictable about their direction considering they have Petty (4th round) who has not shown much in terms of being able to produce on offense and Christian Hackenberg (2nd round) who has been on the bench but been given accolades to the strides he has made this offseason.

Then the Jets signed Josh McCown, to be the 17 starter in case the others are not ready, which is likely.

RB is a huge need because Forte is all but done and Powell cant be consistent. But Fournette is likely gone to the Jags at 4 with Chris Ivory getting paid a lot of money but not healthy a lot and T.J. Yeldon being ineffective when given the chance to start.


If you're Tennessee's GM, I think you jump on that deal. When we were debating the pick for the Titans, it came down to a choice between Lattimore or Mike Williams. There's a small chance that Williams might fall to #12 (Buffalo is likely the main worry), but there is also Corey Davis (who I kind of like better personally ... then again, I have a soft spot for smaller school guys) who is very like to be there. If the Titan truly coveted Williams but wanted to take the deal, they could probably talk Carolina into flipping #8 for #12 and their 1st of two 3rd rounders.

Question is whether Cleveland makes that move, or sits back. Another option for Cleveland would be to take someone like Howard at 12, and then use 33 as a spring board to the low 20s (say 33 + the aforementioned 3rd (83) to Detroit's 22?). All things being equal, they probably want their QB drafted in the first so they have the 5th year option. They probably also want to get their choice of guy ahead of the Texans along with the other teams in the latter part of the first round that could take a QB to park for the future (Giants, Chiefs, Steelers, and Saints).
I agree they should trade up, but I wonder in the analytics crowd in their org will want to. This guys probably see the value in staying where they are, taking the very BPA or trading down to take a qb in the late teens or early 20s or even rolling with their current group this year and hoping one of them emerges as an average starter and then taking Darnold next year if Brock or Kessler fail to prove their worth.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
Perhaps they should try to trade down but stay in front of the teams in the 20s. I just don't see the value in taking any of the Qbs but Trubinsky in the top 15. All the Qbs (Trubinsky included because before last year he was a back up) have potential to be starters but none have consistently shown that ability through their college careers.

The Browns made a mistake in passing on wentz last year, they made a mistake in drafting Johnny Manziel. They really can't afford to make another mistake when drafting a qb.

They're basically a worse version of the Redskins since before the 2012 season and then the 2015-2017 seasons at QB. The Browns haven't even had as much success qb wise as the Redskins the last 1/4 century which is saying a hell of a lot!

Truthfully, the best thing for them would be to continue to ride Cody Kessler one more year just to see what happens. Hugh Jackson likes Kessler, and if Kessler gets to develop the way Cousins did he may turn into a top 15 starter within a few more years. If they can continue to build a good young team around Kessler, they may end up having a playoff team or better by 2019 or 2020.

Let's face it, the Steelers and Ravens are going to be in rebuild mode by then so the Browns and the Bengals could be battling it out for the division in 2020.


Problem for the Browns with trading down is that you have the Cardinals right behind them at 13. While I don't see Arizona trading up for a QB, if a QB they like falls into their lap (Watson? Mahomes?), I don't see them passing on him.

I think the Browns' front office needs to assuage the fan base (and to a lesser extent the owner) and take a QB here, even if it isn't the ideal situation. They have to give some sort of hope with two first round picks (or three if they choose to trade up).
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
They have to get a quarterback this draft but none are worthy here. I predict a trade back to accumulate even more picks like 2 or 3 this year and 1 next year where they can get a franchise QB next year too


I would predict the opposite. Packaging 12 and 33 to move up to 5 and grab Trubisky before the Jets can do so.

The Jets are so unpredictable about their direction considering they have Petty (4th round) who has not shown much in terms of being able to produce on offense and Christian Hackenberg (2nd round) who has been on the bench but been given accolades to the strides he has made this offseason.

Then the Jets signed Josh McCown, to be the 17 starter in case the others are not ready, which is likely.

RB is a huge need because Forte is all but done and Powell cant be consistent. But Fournette is likely gone to the Jags at 4 with Chris Ivory getting paid a lot of money but not healthy a lot and T.J. Yeldon being ineffective when given the chance to start.


If you're Tennessee's GM, I think you jump on that deal. When we were debating the pick for the Titans, it came down to a choice between Lattimore or Mike Williams. There's a small chance that Williams might fall to #12 (Buffalo is likely the main worry), but there is also Corey Davis (who I kind of like better personally ... then again, I have a soft spot for smaller school guys) who is very like to be there. If the Titan truly coveted Williams but wanted to take the deal, they could probably talk Carolina into flipping #8 for #12 and their 1st of two 3rd rounders.

Question is whether Cleveland makes that move, or sits back. Another option for Cleveland would be to take someone like Howard at 12, and then use 33 as a spring board to the low 20s (say 33 + the aforementioned 3rd (83) to Detroit's 22?). All things being equal, they probably want their QB drafted in the first so they have the 5th year option. They probably also want to get their choice of guy ahead of the Texans along with the other teams in the latter part of the first round that could take a QB to park for the future (Giants, Chiefs, Steelers, and Saints).
I agree they should trade up, but I wonder in the analytics crowd in their org will want to. This guys probably see the value in staying where they are, taking the very BPA or trading down to take a qb in the late teens or early 20s or even rolling with their current group this year and hoping one of them emerges as an average starter and then taking Darnold next year if Brock or Kessler fail to prove their worth.


Funny thing: if you consider starts in both the pros and college, I think Kessler has more experience at playing QB (3.5 years for Kessler (3 at USC, 0.5 in Cleveland) versus 2.5 for Osweiler (1 at ASU, 0.5 at Denver, most of 1 at Houston)).

You know what you have in Osweiler: a bum. Kessler is a possibility, but can they roll with the guy on just 8 starts? It will be interesting to watch.

I would also question how much pull the analytics crowd has inside the Browns' front office if there is realistically a debate over whether to take Garrett or Trubisky at #1 overall. Yes, I realize this could all be a smoke screen, but I don't know if I believe in the Cleveland Browns organization enough to think they are doing this solely to distract ESPN and football fans.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
Perhaps they should try to trade down but stay in front of the teams in the 20s. I just don't see the value in taking any of the Qbs but Trubinsky in the top 15. All the Qbs (Trubinsky included because before last year he was a back up) have potential to be starters but none have consistently shown that ability through their college careers.

The Browns made a mistake in passing on wentz last year, they made a mistake in drafting Johnny Manziel. They really can't afford to make another mistake when drafting a qb.

They're basically a worse version of the Redskins since before the 2012 season and then the 2015-2017 seasons at QB. The Browns haven't even had as much success qb wise as the Redskins the last 1/4 century which is saying a hell of a lot!

Truthfully, the best thing for them would be to continue to ride Cody Kessler one more year just to see what happens. Hugh Jackson likes Kessler, and if Kessler gets to develop the way Cousins did he may turn into a top 15 starter within a few more years. If they can continue to build a good young team around Kessler, they may end up having a playoff team or better by 2019 or 2020.

Let's face it, the Steelers and Ravens are going to be in rebuild mode by then so the Browns and the Bengals could be battling it out for the division in 2020.


Problem for the Browns with trading down is that you have the Cardinals right behind them at 13. While I don't see Arizona trading up for a QB, if a QB they like falls into their lap (Watson? Mahomes?), I don't see them passing on him.

I think the Browns' front office needs to assuage the fan base (and to a lesser extent the owner) and take a QB here, even if it isn't the ideal situation. They have to give some sort of hope with two first round picks (or three if they choose to trade up).
I think they can trade down and miss on one qb whether that be Watson, Kizer or Mahomes because Az takes one at 13, but I don't think they can risk on missing on all 3 by trading down into the 20s somewhere because the Texans & Chiefs may trade up.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The Browns QB situation is:
Brock Osweiler
Cody Kessler
Kevin Hogan

Between them, they have a combined 1036 career passing attempts (nearly 80% belong to Osweiler) in 29 starts (21 for Osweiler, 8 for Kessler).

There is no scenario where they can skip a QB here. In our scenario, they gambled and lost with the Jets taking Trubisky. I realize this won't be popular but I think they take the kid from (arguably) their backyard in Kizer. This is akin to selecting a Honda Accord over luxury sports sedan (select your make and model to taste). Sure, the Accord isn't all that sexy, but it's incredibly reliable and has more get up and go than you might think. The Browns need stability at QB, as demonstrated by the (now retired) Jersey.
Perhaps they should try to trade down but stay in front of the teams in the 20s. I just don't see the value in taking any of the Qbs but Trubinsky in the top 15. All the Qbs (Trubinsky included because before last year he was a back up) have potential to be starters but none have consistently shown that ability through their college careers.

The Browns made a mistake in passing on wentz last year, they made a mistake in drafting Johnny Manziel. They really can't afford to make another mistake when drafting a qb.

They're basically a worse version of the Redskins since before the 2012 season and then the 2015-2017 seasons at QB. The Browns haven't even had as much success qb wise as the Redskins the last 1/4 century which is saying a hell of a lot!

Truthfully, the best thing for them would be to continue to ride Cody Kessler one more year just to see what happens. Hugh Jackson likes Kessler, and if Kessler gets to develop the way Cousins did he may turn into a top 15 starter within a few more years. If they can continue to build a good young team around Kessler, they may end up having a playoff team or better by 2019 or 2020.

Let's face it, the Steelers and Ravens are going to be in rebuild mode by then so the Browns and the Bengals could be battling it out for the division in 2020.


Problem for the Browns with trading down is that you have the Cardinals right behind them at 13. While I don't see Arizona trading up for a QB, if a QB they like falls into their lap (Watson? Mahomes?), I don't see them passing on him.

I think the Browns' front office needs to assuage the fan base (and to a lesser extent the owner) and take a QB here, even if it isn't the ideal situation. They have to give some sort of hope with two first round picks (or three if they choose to trade up).
I think they can trade down and miss on one qb whether that be Watson, Kizer or Mahomes because Az takes one at 13, but I don't think they can risk on missing on all 3 by trading down into the 20s somewhere because the Texans & Chiefs may trade up.


How would trading down to say 18 prevent the Texans and Chiefs from trading up to 16 or 17? I don't follow.

If they don't take a QB at 12, but use 33 as a jump point to trade up, they can sneak past the Texans and Chiefs. Remember, I was talking about them going from 33 to 21 or 22.
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