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Moving up in the 1st round
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Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.

I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.

I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.

We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.

Well not exactly. At least not how I'd like to see it. I'd have him rush EVERY TIME making him the 4th rusher. I know they like to change it up every so often and switch the rushers from ROLB to LOLB but Harrison is terrible in coverage and I don't think it confuses the OL anymore. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when he backs out into Zone. So, I'd get rid of that scheme. Having Barnett rush every time and Dupree handle the coverage responsibilities and Blitz every so often would be ideal. I agree Barnett isn't a perfect fit but he would no doubt improve the Pass Rush. IMO at least.

If Dupree drops into coverage more than he rushes it's a problem and you're taking away his best asset and wasting him a la Woodley.

I rather have a second guy that can do both and bring back the ability to rush from either side and be unpredictable. It's kinda why our pass rush sucks right now. Every team knows when Deebo is out there he's rushing and that's it. So if we have 3 DL they know Dupree is most likely dropping. If we have 2 DL they know both are coming.

I mean, if that's the plan you might as well switch to a 4-3 base and make Shazier-VW-Dupree the will-mike-sam.

But that's how a 3-4 works. One of the OLBs has to drop (unless your Blitzing). Woodley dropped because Harrison was the better Rusher. When they both came it was darn near impossible to block. That's what I see in the a potential duo of Barnett/Dupree. If you are wanting to draft a coverage OLB and let Dupree be the lead Rusher than that's a different story. I don't see that as a 1st Rd worthy selection. I know you are a fan of Charlton. I actually see Barnett a better fit at OLB than Charlton.

Right so what you are talking about is a situation that worked, and made one of the players very unhappy.

I'm not looking for a lead rusher or coverage OLB. I'm looking to create unpredictability. Having a guy that has the ability to do both helps us.

Having one consistently rush one drop makes it easy for the opposing offense. I would consistently hot read right behind the rushing LB and dink and dunk until the defense either rolls coverage or tips their hand with a blitz from elsewhere. Basically....that's what Tom Brady does to us.

What I would want, and why I prefer some of the other guys, is the ability to rush the ROLB and Dupree together, or just Dupree, or just the ROLB. That's why peak Harrison and Woodley was so great, neither was great man cover guys, but they could do short hook zones. So you didn't know which side of the field the hot read went to because they could both rush and play the hook zones like that. It's that ability that made that Harrison play in the Cards SB possible. Warner read for the hot read to Harrisons side, and although he didn't do as scripted, Harrison was able to drop and pick it off.

It's why I say if you want to go to a dedicated rusher and dedicated cover guy we might as well go to a full time 4-3 over lineup and make Dupree the guy that comes off the field for nickle packages. He's not that good of a cover guy to make him do that exclusively.

Ok. I can see that. But the Harrison/Woodley duo DID work. Woodley wasn't great at coverage and I'd venture to guess Dupree would be as good if not better at it. Sure it would be great to have OLBs that were equally great at both Rushing and covering but how many of those are out there? When the Steelers were great, they had 3 DL that held the point and commanded double teams. You had one Rush OLB that usually provided the pressure and only dropped into coverage just enough to confuse opposing Offenses. I feel as tho we have that DL and we have 1 piece of the OLB puzzle. You just need that dominant Rusher or that one Coverage/Rush OLB if you think Dupree is that Rush man. You don't move to a 4-3 because the 3-4 gives you so much more flexibility (assuming you can create pressure). I don't think either scenario is fact. I think both schemes would work and it just a matter of differing opinions. It's just that mine is better. Wink

I don't remember if it's this thread or another one that I said it, I just don't think Dupree is a good coverage linebacker.

So again, in taking one guy you are effectively wasting anothers talents. And Harrison/Woodley worked because both could rush and drop. Not because one was a rusher and the other was coverage. It worked because opposing offenses didn't know which one was doing what.

Dupree showed a pretty good advancement in his pass rushing moves last year, showed better run stopping ability, but his coverage ability stayed about the same. I would think that he's a better pass rusher that we first got and improving. I want him to keep on working, and would like to see a second OLB that can complement that by being a strong POA guy. Really someone who will play on the LOS all the time and bring one of Heyward/Tuitt/Hargraves off the field for nickle packages and leave both on the field. Basically do what it takes to not make Dupree cover a bunch.
jebrick wrote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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