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C$!


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1721
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Moving up in the 1st round Reply with quote

I know the Steelers dont make a ton of trades during the first round, especially to move up but the two times they have done it in the past 20 years, the Steelers got Troy Polamalu and Antonio Holmes.
I was wondering if there was a player people would move up to get.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The easy answer is "Yes". I would move up to get Garrett, Lattimore, Adams, Hooker...etc. But that's not realistic as it would cost too much to make that move. So I'll amend the question to who is WORTH moving up for based on cost. To which I'd say...Humphrey, Foster, Barnett (if he were to fall into the mid to late teens), and if almost all the 1st Rd Edge guys were gone I'd consider moving up a spot or 2 in front of GB to nab Harris/Tak. A pretty short list for me.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in camp move down!

Way too much value in this draft. If someone in the high second wants to give us great value to get a QB or someone else at that spot then do it. I don't think this is a tool that Colbert uses enough. It's rare to see an early trade down from this FO, and they might need to soon in order to have the ammo to move up for Ben's replacement.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they love a player I think they might have to jump in front of at least GB but also Dallas.

i would rather have teams wanting to trade up for that QB that they passed on in Rd 1.
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"You build with draft choices. You find people with talents adaptable to your plans and then you teach them to do things the way we do them." - Chuck Noll
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KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.


We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.


We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.

Well not exactly. At least not how I'd like to see it. I'd have him rush EVERY TIME making him the 4th rusher. I know they like to change it up every so often and switch the rushers from ROLB to LOLB but Harrison is terrible in coverage and I don't think it confuses the OL anymore. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when he backs out into Zone. So, I'd get rid of that scheme. Having Barnett rush every time and Dupree handle the coverage responsibilities and Blitz every so often would be ideal. I agree Barnett isn't a perfect fit but he would no doubt improve the Pass Rush. IMO at least.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.


We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.

Well not exactly. At least not how I'd like to see it. I'd have him rush EVERY TIME making him the 4th rusher. I know they like to change it up every so often and switch the rushers from ROLB to LOLB but Harrison is terrible in coverage and I don't think it confuses the OL anymore. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when he backs out into Zone. So, I'd get rid of that scheme. Having Barnett rush every time and Dupree handle the coverage responsibilities and Blitz every so often would be ideal. I agree Barnett isn't a perfect fit but he would no doubt improve the Pass Rush. IMO at least.


If Dupree drops into coverage more than he rushes it's a problem and you're taking away his best asset and wasting him a la Woodley.

I rather have a second guy that can do both and bring back the ability to rush from either side and be unpredictable. It's kinda why our pass rush sucks right now. Every team knows when Deebo is out there he's rushing and that's it. So if we have 3 DL they know Dupree is most likely dropping. If we have 2 DL they know both are coming.

I mean, if that's the plan you might as well switch to a 4-3 base and make Shazier-VW-Dupree the will-mike-sam.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.


We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.

Well not exactly. At least not how I'd like to see it. I'd have him rush EVERY TIME making him the 4th rusher. I know they like to change it up every so often and switch the rushers from ROLB to LOLB but Harrison is terrible in coverage and I don't think it confuses the OL anymore. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when he backs out into Zone. So, I'd get rid of that scheme. Having Barnett rush every time and Dupree handle the coverage responsibilities and Blitz every so often would be ideal. I agree Barnett isn't a perfect fit but he would no doubt improve the Pass Rush. IMO at least.


If Dupree drops into coverage more than he rushes it's a problem and you're taking away his best asset and wasting him a la Woodley.

I rather have a second guy that can do both and bring back the ability to rush from either side and be unpredictable. It's kinda why our pass rush sucks right now. Every team knows when Deebo is out there he's rushing and that's it. So if we have 3 DL they know Dupree is most likely dropping. If we have 2 DL they know both are coming.

I mean, if that's the plan you might as well switch to a 4-3 base and make Shazier-VW-Dupree the will-mike-sam.

But that's how a 3-4 works. One of the OLBs has to drop (unless your Blitzing). Woodley dropped because Harrison was the better Rusher. When they both came it was darn near impossible to block. That's what I see in the a potential duo of Barnett/Dupree. If you are wanting to draft a coverage OLB and let Dupree be the lead Rusher than that's a different story. I don't see that as a 1st Rd worthy selection. I know you are a fan of Charlton. I actually see Barnett a better fit at OLB than Charlton.


Last edited by Chieferific on Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AlanFanecaFan


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 11530
Location: Keeping bad people where they belong
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Chief on Barnett...you make it work regardless.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3564
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.


We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.

Well not exactly. At least not how I'd like to see it. I'd have him rush EVERY TIME making him the 4th rusher. I know they like to change it up every so often and switch the rushers from ROLB to LOLB but Harrison is terrible in coverage and I don't think it confuses the OL anymore. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when he backs out into Zone. So, I'd get rid of that scheme. Having Barnett rush every time and Dupree handle the coverage responsibilities and Blitz every so often would be ideal. I agree Barnett isn't a perfect fit but he would no doubt improve the Pass Rush. IMO at least.


If Dupree drops into coverage more than he rushes it's a problem and you're taking away his best asset and wasting him a la Woodley.

I rather have a second guy that can do both and bring back the ability to rush from either side and be unpredictable. It's kinda why our pass rush sucks right now. Every team knows when Deebo is out there he's rushing and that's it. So if we have 3 DL they know Dupree is most likely dropping. If we have 2 DL they know both are coming.

I mean, if that's the plan you might as well switch to a 4-3 base and make Shazier-VW-Dupree the will-mike-sam.

But that's how a 3-4 works. One of the OLBs has to drop (unless your Blitzing). Woodley dropped because Harrison was the better Rusher. When they both came it was darn near impossible to block. That's what I see in the a potential duo of Barnett/Dupree. If you are wanting to draft a coverage OLB and let Dupree be the lead Rusher than that's a different story. I don't see that as a 1st Rd worthy selection. I know you are a fan of Charlton. I actually see Barnett a better fit at OLB than Charlton.


Right so what you are talking about is a situation that worked, and made one of the players very unhappy.

I'm not looking for a lead rusher or coverage OLB. I'm looking to create unpredictability. Having a guy that has the ability to do both helps us.

Having one consistently rush one drop makes it easy for the opposing offense. I would consistently hot read right behind the rushing LB and dink and dunk until the defense either rolls coverage or tips their hand with a blitz from elsewhere. Basically....that's what Tom Brady does to us.

What I would want, and why I prefer some of the other guys, is the ability to rush the ROLB and Dupree together, or just Dupree, or just the ROLB. That's why peak Harrison and Woodley was so great, neither was great man cover guys, but they could do short hook zones. So you didn't know which side of the field the hot read went to because they could both rush and play the hook zones like that. It's that ability that made that Harrison play in the Cards SB possible. Warner read for the hot read to Harrisons side, and although he didn't do as scripted, Harrison was able to drop and pick it off.

It's why I say if you want to go to a dedicated rusher and dedicated cover guy we might as well go to a full time 4-3 over lineup and make Dupree the guy that comes off the field for nickle packages. He's not that good of a cover guy to make him do that exclusively.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4943
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
warfelg wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
If Derek Barnett was still on the board at 20 I'd be on the phone.


I honestly wouldn't. Terrible 3-4 fit.


I don't care, he is a game changer. You find a way to get guys like him on the field.


We're still a base 3-4 that asks out OLB's to drop into coverage. So either he plays OLB and is terrible in coverage or plays DE and ends up behind Tuitt and Heyward on the DC.

Well not exactly. At least not how I'd like to see it. I'd have him rush EVERY TIME making him the 4th rusher. I know they like to change it up every so often and switch the rushers from ROLB to LOLB but Harrison is terrible in coverage and I don't think it confuses the OL anymore. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when he backs out into Zone. So, I'd get rid of that scheme. Having Barnett rush every time and Dupree handle the coverage responsibilities and Blitz every so often would be ideal. I agree Barnett isn't a perfect fit but he would no doubt improve the Pass Rush. IMO at least.


If Dupree drops into coverage more than he rushes it's a problem and you're taking away his best asset and wasting him a la Woodley.

I rather have a second guy that can do both and bring back the ability to rush from either side and be unpredictable. It's kinda why our pass rush sucks right now. Every team knows when Deebo is out there he's rushing and that's it. So if we have 3 DL they know Dupree is most likely dropping. If we have 2 DL they know both are coming.

I mean, if that's the plan you might as well switch to a 4-3 base and make Shazier-VW-Dupree the will-mike-sam.

But that's how a 3-4 works. One of the OLBs has to drop (unless your Blitzing). Woodley dropped because Harrison was the better Rusher. When they both came it was darn near impossible to block. That's what I see in the a potential duo of Barnett/Dupree. If you are wanting to draft a coverage OLB and let Dupree be the lead Rusher than that's a different story. I don't see that as a 1st Rd worthy selection. I know you are a fan of Charlton. I actually see Barnett a better fit at OLB than Charlton.


Right so what you are talking about is a situation that worked, and made one of the players very unhappy.

I'm not looking for a lead rusher or coverage OLB. I'm looking to create unpredictability. Having a guy that has the ability to do both helps us.

Having one consistently rush one drop makes it easy for the opposing offense. I would consistently hot read right behind the rushing LB and dink and dunk until the defense either rolls coverage or tips their hand with a blitz from elsewhere. Basically....that's what Tom Brady does to us.

What I would want, and why I prefer some of the other guys, is the ability to rush the ROLB and Dupree together, or just Dupree, or just the ROLB. That's why peak Harrison and Woodley was so great, neither was great man cover guys, but they could do short hook zones. So you didn't know which side of the field the hot read went to because they could both rush and play the hook zones like that. It's that ability that made that Harrison play in the Cards SB possible. Warner read for the hot read to Harrisons side, and although he didn't do as scripted, Harrison was able to drop and pick it off.

It's why I say if you want to go to a dedicated rusher and dedicated cover guy we might as well go to a full time 4-3 over lineup and make Dupree the guy that comes off the field for nickle packages. He's not that good of a cover guy to make him do that exclusively.

Ok. I can see that. But the Harrison/Woodley duo DID work. Woodley wasn't great at coverage and I'd venture to guess Dupree would be as good if not better at it. Sure it would be great to have OLBs that were equally great at both Rushing and covering but how many of those are out there? When the Steelers were great, they had 3 DL that held the point and commanded double teams. You had one Rush OLB that usually provided the pressure and only dropped into coverage just enough to confuse opposing Offenses. I feel as tho we have that DL and we have 1 piece of the OLB puzzle. You just need that dominant Rusher or that one Coverage/Rush OLB if you think Dupree is that Rush man. You don't move to a 4-3 because the 3-4 gives you so much more flexibility (assuming you can create pressure). I don't think either scenario is fact. I think both schemes would work and it just a matter of differing opinions. It's just that mine is better. Wink
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the double post:

If they do jump up to get Barnett, who I see as a Poor Man's Michael Bennett, I think at that point I would like to see:
Tuitt moved for 2nd rounder+
Get another DE via the draft
Go to a 4-3 over with DE-Hargraves-Heyward-Barnett at DL, Shazier-VW-Dupree (playing over) at LB
On passing downs take Hargraves or the DE off the field, put Dupree on the line, and either Kick Barnett inside or leave him on the end to play base end.

It seems as though most of what you read on him says the same thing too, outside on early downs for run game, inside on passing downs because of his lack of length.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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