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College Football Prospects and Mock Draft Discussion v.6
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 6152
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
Of the QB's coming out next year....I wanted to make sure one that has not been included, gets included.....
Lamar Jackson....he's been a beast at Louisville....


See I am not a big fan of Jackson. Runs way too much. We have seen it time and time again those pure dual threat QBs dont last in the NFL.

Look at Watson. IMO, '15 was pretty special because he was so dangerous with his feet and it set up a lot for his arm. This past season they really wanted to run him less and Watson wanted to stand in the pocket more to show NFL teams he can be a pocket passer and he wasnt as good as a passer doing tho. Hell vs tOSU, he looked pretty bad trying to stand there and try and pick apart the tOSU secondary. They started to run him more and he started to be more active in the pocket with his legs and it lead to Clemson running away.

For me to really get behind jackson. I want to see him beat teams more with his arm than his legs. His passing game really open up when he already hurt the defense with a couple big runs. With the kind of OL the Browns have, I would hate to see that be wasted blocking for a dual threat QB. never knowing when he will take off and what not


LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
Of the QB's coming out next year....I wanted to make sure one that has not been included, gets included.....
Lamar Jackson....he's been a beast at Louisville....


Boooooo!!!

Dude's a pure college QB IMO.

Those guys don't last in the league.


I respect both ya'lls comments....and I feel you...my thing is that he will be heading into his Jr. year now....lets see what he develops into in another year....
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11386
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd be ok with Trubisky at 1. I want Garrett personally, but I am leaning towards Trubisky being a franchise QB. I love his game & was the first person on the board to name drop him before the CFB season started. He's got every tool other than experience. I'm okay with inexperience if he's checking every other box...which he has.

I'll be a little disappointed with our putrid defense if we pass on MG for MT, but Trubisky is gonna be good. I'm really surprised he isn't seen as a slam dunk QB prospect. Seems like a superstar in the making.


It's his lack of experience that has me not calling him a slam dunk. If I'd seen him for at least one more year I would be comfortable calling him a slam dunk.


What about his 8-5 record, or his trouble reading complex coverages? Also his arm doesn't really impress me. I just don't see what's so special. Especially compared to Darnold and to a lesser extent, traits that Josh Rosen has shown.

But if we take him I'll come around to it.


His arm is plenty strong enough to make all the throws with adequate velocity. Couple that with his football intelligence, anticipation and near elite accuracy and he'll be just fine. 8-5 is actually pretty good for a basketball school Wink I don't think it can be proved one way or the other whether he can read complex coverages or not. I'm assuming your dislike of him all stems from the Stanford game. As I stated before Stanford was a superior opponent. He had a very bad 1st half and I admittedly was concerned about him too. But he learned from it and drastically improved the 2nd half. Where he danged near pulled off an upset. If he hadn't been Solomon Thomassed he probably would have pulled it out.
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11386
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
buno67 wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
Of the QB's coming out next year....I wanted to make sure one that has not been included, gets included.....
Lamar Jackson....he's been a beast at Louisville....


See I am not a big fan of Jackson. Runs way too much. We have seen it time and time again those pure dual threat QBs dont last in the NFL.

Look at Watson. IMO, '15 was pretty special because he was so dangerous with his feet and it set up a lot for his arm. This past season they really wanted to run him less and Watson wanted to stand in the pocket more to show NFL teams he can be a pocket passer and he wasnt as good as a passer doing tho. Hell vs tOSU, he looked pretty bad trying to stand there and try and pick apart the tOSU secondary. They started to run him more and he started to be more active in the pocket with his legs and it lead to Clemson running away.

For me to really get behind jackson. I want to see him beat teams more with his arm than his legs. His passing game really open up when he already hurt the defense with a couple big runs. With the kind of OL the Browns have, I would hate to see that be wasted blocking for a dual threat QB. never knowing when he will take off and what not


LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
Of the QB's coming out next year....I wanted to make sure one that has not been included, gets included.....
Lamar Jackson....he's been a beast at Louisville....


Boooooo!!!

Dude's a pure college QB IMO.

Those guys don't last in the league.


I respect both ya'lls comments....and I feel you...my thing is that he will be heading into his Jr. year now....lets see what he develops into in another year....


I'll definitely be watching him this year to see if he improves. I just didn't see much of a QB out of him. If he learns to throw the ball better he could be one to watch, dude is electric. (no not the boogeh woogeh woogeh kind)
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 3743
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd be ok with Trubisky at 1. I want Garrett personally, but I am leaning towards Trubisky being a franchise QB. I love his game & was the first person on the board to name drop him before the CFB season started. He's got every tool other than experience. I'm okay with inexperience if he's checking every other box...which he has.

I'll be a little disappointed with our putrid defense if we pass on MG for MT, but Trubisky is gonna be good. I'm really surprised he isn't seen as a slam dunk QB prospect. Seems like a superstar in the making.


It's his lack of experience that has me not calling him a slam dunk. If I'd seen him for at least one more year I would be comfortable calling him a slam dunk.


What about his 8-5 record, or his trouble reading complex coverages? Also his arm doesn't really impress me. I just don't see what's so special. Especially compared to Darnold and to a lesser extent, traits that Josh Rosen has shown.

But if we take him I'll come around to it.


His arm is plenty strong enough to make all the throws with adequate velocity. Couple that with his football intelligence, anticipation and near elite accuracy and he'll be just fine. 8-5 is actually pretty good for a basketball school Wink I don't think it can be proved one way or the other whether he can read complex coverages or not. I'm assuming your dislike of him all stems from the Stanford game. As I stated before Stanford was a superior opponent. He had a very bad 1st half and I admittedly was concerned about him too. But he learned from it and drastically improved the 2nd half. Where he danged near pulled off an upset. If he hadn't been Solomon Thomassed he probably would have pulled it out.


I don't dislike him. I've said for a while he's my favourite of this class. But I do think he's second round quality. I mentioned the 8-5 because they went 11-3 last year. About the Stanford game, I agree he had a nice comeback attempt towards the end but let's not forget he threw a seriously bad pick six late on. And the earlier int he didn't read the coverage well. And not just the Stanford game. The pick at the end to lose against Duke. I think he can learn that for sure with time but early on I can see teams running some zone blitzes and having him throw it straight to them.

I think he's an alright prospect and the one I'd take out of this class if I had to, but given where he's expected to go, I wouldn't.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 833
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd be ok with Trubisky at 1. I want Garrett personally, but I am leaning towards Trubisky being a franchise QB. I love his game & was the first person on the board to name drop him before the CFB season started. He's got every tool other than experience. I'm okay with inexperience if he's checking every other box...which he has.

I'll be a little disappointed with our putrid defense if we pass on MG for MT, but Trubisky is gonna be good. I'm really surprised he isn't seen as a slam dunk QB prospect. Seems like a superstar in the making.


It's his lack of experience that has me not calling him a slam dunk. If I'd seen him for at least one more year I would be comfortable calling him a slam dunk.


What about his 8-5 record, or his trouble reading complex coverages? Also his arm doesn't really impress me. I just don't see what's so special. Especially compared to Darnold and to a lesser extent, traits that Josh Rosen has shown.

But if we take him I'll come around to it.


His arm is plenty strong enough to make all the throws with adequate velocity. Couple that with his football intelligence, anticipation and near elite accuracy and he'll be just fine. 8-5 is actually pretty good for a basketball school Wink I don't think it can be proved one way or the other whether he can read complex coverages or not. I'm assuming your dislike of him all stems from the Stanford game. As I stated before Stanford was a superior opponent. He had a very bad 1st half and I admittedly was concerned about him too. But he learned from it and drastically improved the 2nd half. Where he danged near pulled off an upset. If he hadn't been Solomon Thomassed he probably would have pulled it out.


Not really the lie detector, but the game film...



One scout said that Trubisky's CEILING, is Alex Smith.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 58754
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Speculation will continue about who the Cleveland Browns will select No. 1 in the 2017 NFL draft on Thursday, but the team reportedly already knows what player will lead them into the future.

NFL Network's Michael Silver reported on Up to the Minute Live (via NFL.com's Chase Goodbread) the Browns made up their mind about the top pick two weeks ago and "only three or four people in the world" know who the pick will be.


If they've already made up their mind, it's Garrett. Right now the Trubisky stuff is more likely them just trying to trade up.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28460
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see this being smoke about trading up for a wild card like Fournette.
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Bucketheadsdad


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 7517
Location: Working Overtime in the Factory of Sadness
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On today's episode of......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKtl_Q-kcWM

Yep....this is NOT at all realistic....
https://www.first-pick.com/NFL/Share.aspx?id=48389e33-264e-4a2e-b214-538db03a0db3




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Reginaldm9


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 4455
Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last Mock:

1a. Myles Garrett, DE

TRADE UP with Tennessee; they get #12, #52 and 2018 3rd

1b. Malik Hooker, S

2. Kevin King, CB

3. Josh Dobbs, QB

4. Jordan Leggett, TE

5a. Malachi Dupree, WR

5b. Zane Gonzalez, K

5c. Sean Harlow, OL

6a. Ben Boulware, ILB

6b. Treyvon Hester, DT
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 7579
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Reginaldm9"]Last Mock:

1a. Myles Garrett, DE

TRADE UP with Tennessee; they get #12, #52 and 2018 3rd

1b. Malik Hooker, S

2. Kevin King, CB

3. Josh Dobbs, QB

4. Jordan Leggett, TE

5a. Malachi Dupree, WR

5b. Zane Gonzalez, K

5c. Sean Harlow, OL

6a. Ben Boulware, ILB

6b. Treyvon Hester, DT[/quote

Puts checks in all the position boxes on my list with great value. Where do I sign? Laughing
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40677
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starting to feel bad for Conley. His accusers story is already starting to form major holes. Sucks he will fall in the draft and he wont attend the draft now because he doesnt want to be a distraction to the NFL and ruin the night for others.

Reports coming out that the accuser said she first met Conley in the elevator of the western. Security camera footage shows that she was with him at a bar with him. I want to say at one point he had his arm around her.
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H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 5479
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd be ok with Trubisky at 1. I want Garrett personally, but I am leaning towards Trubisky being a franchise QB. I love his game & was the first person on the board to name drop him before the CFB season started. He's got every tool other than experience. I'm okay with inexperience if he's checking every other box...which he has.

I'll be a little disappointed with our putrid defense if we pass on MG for MT, but Trubisky is gonna be good. I'm really surprised he isn't seen as a slam dunk QB prospect. Seems like a superstar in the making.


It's his lack of experience that has me not calling him a slam dunk. If I'd seen him for at least one more year I would be comfortable calling him a slam dunk.


What about his 8-5 record, or his trouble reading complex coverages? Also his arm doesn't really impress me. I just don't see what's so special. Especially compared to Darnold and to a lesser extent, traits that Josh Rosen has shown.

But if we take him I'll come around to it.


His arm is plenty strong enough to make all the throws with adequate velocity. Couple that with his football intelligence, anticipation and near elite accuracy and he'll be just fine. 8-5 is actually pretty good for a basketball school Wink I don't think it can be proved one way or the other whether he can read complex coverages or not. I'm assuming your dislike of him all stems from the Stanford game. As I stated before Stanford was a superior opponent. He had a very bad 1st half and I admittedly was concerned about him too. But he learned from it and drastically improved the 2nd half. Where he danged near pulled off an upset. If he hadn't been Solomon Thomassed he probably would have pulled it out.


Not really the lie detector, but the game film...



One scout said that Trubisky's CEILING, is Alex Smith.


Don't be dense, Dean. It's fine you don't like him, it's not fine to make up things like him not having a strong arm.

And I don't give a Flying J [inappropriate/removed] what ONE scout said about his ceiling, I'll stick with what another UNC former athlete once said.


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wukusimw


Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 710
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like that draft Reginald. Makes it clear to me how easily expendable 52 is in order to land another stud. The defense would get turned around real quick.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19757
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Marky wrote:
Is it possible that we could trade up from 12 and 33?

Like up to 6 or 7 for 12 and a 2nd rounder from 2018 (plus a late round pick or two?)

Move to the mid 20's for #33 and other fillers?

Honestly, not sure what it would take but we could walk out with:

Garrett
Hooker
Mahomes

Probably not since we love draft picks, but that would be a crazy turn around from last year.


Basically my dream scenario right there.


It would be hard to watch the rest of the draft from the cloud I would be on from that 1st round.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 833
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
I'd be ok with Trubisky at 1. I want Garrett personally, but I am leaning towards Trubisky being a franchise QB. I love his game & was the first person on the board to name drop him before the CFB season started. He's got every tool other than experience. I'm okay with inexperience if he's checking every other box...which he has.

I'll be a little disappointed with our putrid defense if we pass on MG for MT, but Trubisky is gonna be good. I'm really surprised he isn't seen as a slam dunk QB prospect. Seems like a superstar in the making.


It's his lack of experience that has me not calling him a slam dunk. If I'd seen him for at least one more year I would be comfortable calling him a slam dunk.


What about his 8-5 record, or his trouble reading complex coverages? Also his arm doesn't really impress me. I just don't see what's so special. Especially compared to Darnold and to a lesser extent, traits that Josh Rosen has shown.

But if we take him I'll come around to it.


His arm is plenty strong enough to make all the throws with adequate velocity. Couple that with his football intelligence, anticipation and near elite accuracy and he'll be just fine. 8-5 is actually pretty good for a basketball school Wink I don't think it can be proved one way or the other whether he can read complex coverages or not. I'm assuming your dislike of him all stems from the Stanford game. As I stated before Stanford was a superior opponent. He had a very bad 1st half and I admittedly was concerned about him too. But he learned from it and drastically improved the 2nd half. Where he danged near pulled off an upset. If he hadn't been Solomon Thomassed he probably would have pulled it out.


Not really the lie detector, but the game film...



One scout said that Trubisky's CEILING, is Alex Smith.


Don't be dense, Dean. It's fine you don't like him, it's not fine to make up things like him not having a strong arm.

And I don't give a Flying J [inappropriate/removed] what ONE scout said about his ceiling, I'll stick with what another UNC former athlete once said.



In the context I speak about, its not about how far he can throw the ball when I speak of arm strength, its about ball velocity, which is lacking, which I have pointed out on his own youtube highlight video that is meant to make him look good. The zip is not there, along with that slight hitch when he throws will give NFL DBs way too much time to make plays on him. Compare his film, with some NFL greats, and watch the velocity.

Several of his passes the WR had to slow down or even stop for, and it wasn't because they were running too fast, it was because the ball was just too slow to get there. Regarding the ceiling, that should matter tremendously. When a scout says that the absolute best a prospect will ever be, under the best of conditions and progression, is a game manager QB with a below average arm, that was also grossly overdrated, then you probably should not be considering drafting him in the high first round if that assessment is accurate, and in this case, I believe that it is very accurate.
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