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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3544
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Player scouting Reply with quote

I've been seeing a fair number of people posting lately about how they like/don't like a guy based of combine numbers.

So just out of curiosity, how do you scout a player?

Me personally, I look at tape first. You need to do things on the field before I can consider you a high pick. I look at how a guy plays with leverage. If I see something in a guy that I'm a little confused about on something (Peppers for instance), then I use the combine as a test.

Peppers is perfect for this:
He looks so stiff and slow on tape. Then he was a stud athletically at the combine. So something isn't transferring over from being an athlete to on the field, so I don't like him.

Lawson on the other hand tested as I expected.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10135
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Film works for most of this but when projecting a player at a position he does not play in college I must also look at the combine. Film shows technique or lack of. Shows motor. shows hands and to some cases vision.

One of the reasons the combine runs the same tests the same way every year is so they can be compared with previous players who are known. So film and combine are taken together. If you have a player with good one and not good of the other then there is possibly an issue.
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mwalker


Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's all of it. Game tape, combine, workouts and then reading as much as you can from others.

The one thing we really lack as fans is the gut instinct around demeanor and how hungry they are, that only comes from meeting and spending time with a player.

I think those face to face meetings and discussions is where teams really get to see how well a player understands the game and how much they live and breath it.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2009
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwalker wrote:
I think it's all of it. Game tape, combine, workouts and then reading as much as you can from others.

The one thing we really lack as fans is the gut instinct around demeanor and how hungry they are, that only comes from meeting and spending time with a player.

I think those face to face meetings and discussions is where teams really get to see how well a player understands the game and how much they live and breath it.


Well said mwalker.

Aside from what most of us do: tape, combine, pro days, and reading up on guys from what "experts" and pundits say. I start with the highlight reel, if I don't like that, I'm done. If I do, I'll watch games with the best competition possible first. Beyond explosiveness & athleticism, I like to watch how players handle themselves when they do well and when they don't. How much leadership, energy, passion, hustle and focus they play with? Do they seem like team guys?

Example 1: I just watched Keionta Davis. On the second play, I saw him start walking when the play was still live and within his range to potentially hustle and make a play. Cue *BUZZER* sound. You're done, Keionta.

Example 2: I get the sense that Jake Butt is cocky. A little cockiness is ok but arrogance is a bad sign. I knew Quinn Sypnewski a little bit. He was a TE for the Colorado Buffaloes over a decade ago. Arrogant. I had a sense he would not make it and sure enough, after being drafted in the 5th by the Ravens in 2006, I think it was, he didn't do much. Be careful, Jake.

Sometimes I'll watch an interview to see if this is a guy who I could see in the Steelers lockerroom. Intelligent? Does he love the game? Excited for the process, etc.? A leader? Reliable/Trustworthy?

I trust my gut on guys. Never liked the Jarvis Jones pick. He seemed like a good guy with the right attitude and obviously productive in college, but there was just something there that gave me a bad feeling. (combine & medicals?) Don't know.

My two cents.
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Magnus-Viktor


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 241
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well with me, I tend to identify guys before the season based on meeting the basic requirements at the position. For example, for a 5 tech I don't look at those 6'3" guys as a rule. 6'5" 290 or so. I like decent speed too. Then I go and watch games, to see guys I like, along with just watching random games and teams that I like watching. Sometimes, as a result, I find guys on the opposing team, or teammates, that I like better. For example, I was watching LSU for Zach Mettenberger, and the announcers were hyping up Jarvis Landry, but ODB was the stud in my book. Sure enough, he turned into a beast, albeit one with some screws loose.

As far as comparing game tape vs combine #s, I like it all. I can watch a guy play, and know if he's good or not, but the combine basically tells me if he'll be able to do that against NFL competition. Cooper Kupp is a perfect example. He has good size, outstanding skillset and production, but you needed the combine to see if he could compete with the big boys, even though he blew up the PAC 12 including Marcus Peters when they played. Those were always his biggest games. Then you get him to the senior bowl and he doesn't do much. Which can be understood after seeing the crap at QB. His numbers at the combine were about as expected. A 4.62 in the 40, so he's kinda slow. But his 3-cone and SS were both good. His 3-cone at his pro day would've been the best by any player at the combine. So I think he has the quickness and agility to get open in the NFL anyway, even with the lack of speed. He's basically Jarvis Landry. I'll take it.

Now there are some guys I liked, who looked like crap and tested slow, and I knock them down a few rounds if not taking them off the board completely. There are also guys who test very well but I just don't see them being good players. Usually I look at HOW a guy moves the most. If they have good feet and balance and agility, I usually think they can be developed, so that is where the combine has it's greatest value. Christian McCaffrey, who is my favorite college player ever btw, showed absolutely outstanding feet and agility and COD at the combine, as expected. The honey badger is another one who just jumped off the screen at the combine due to how he moved.
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