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KIRK TRADE TALK THREAD 2017 spring edition episode 3
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
I honestly have no clue what they're doing at this point? I mean, it doesn't take two years to come to a long-term agreement and if they really wanted to get it done it would've been done by now. So if Bruce and Dan have no intentions of paying him what he wants and they're simply going to let him walk for nothing next season I don't think they truly understand how much backlash they're going to receive...

Either fix your relationship with Kirk and pay him or cash out now and trade him to the Niners. This whole entire situation is stupid.
I agree except I don't think they will ever trade him to Kyle Shanahan. I think if another team was interested in trading for Kirk like Denver, the NYJ, CLE, Hou or the Rams in a swap for Goff and their 1st or 2nd round pick that the skins should and I hope would make these trade if they're seriously not going to offer him a Kirk type deal.

Taking a chance of losing Kirk for nothing next offseason should be the last option.

The only reason I think they're eventually going to pay him what he wants is because Bruce and Jay have been so adamant not trading him.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understood franchise tagging him one time just to see what he would do with another full season as starter but this time it just doesn't make sense? You are either going to pay him or you aren't. Crap or get off the pot as they say. If we're going to have to endure years of Bruce playing money ball here we're never going to be successful.

So the time is now, sign him to an extension or take advantage of two teams at the top of the draft that want Kirk. If you don't want to deal with the Niners than trade him to Cleveland and get Garrett. If they let him walk for nothing next year Bruce should be banished from football.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
I understood franchise tagging him one time just to see what he would do with another full season as starter but this time it just doesn't make sense? You are either going to pay him or you aren't. Crap or get off the pot as they say. If we're going to have to endure years of Bruce playing money ball here we're never going to be successful.

So the time is now, sign him to an extension or take advantage of two teams at the top of the draft that want Kirk. If you don't want to deal with the Niners than trade him to Cleveland and get Garrett. If they let him walk for nothing next year Bruce should be banished from football.
I think there's more teams we could trade him to that even thouse two.

I would request a starting caliber player or a qb prospect back in return for the trade but I'd most certainly think the Broncos, Jets, Rams (qb swap & we get their 1st round pick) and the Texans would all compete to trade for Kirk. On every one of those teams there's certainly a player we could get who'd be an upgrade to one of our starters and we'd also get a pick or two back in return.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is his last year here. They don't want to pay him and he wants out so why not trade him for whatever.. I'd trade him and the #17 pick for the number 2 overall.. That's a fair trade for a franchised player on a one year deal essentially.
Lots of options with that number 2 pick-trade it for a boatload of picks/ draft a truly can't miss ( considering there are no such animals ) guy. Just be done with this saga . I don't care if Donald Duck is our starting Q B next year.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
This is his last year here. They don't want to pay him and he wants out so why not trade him for whatever.. I'd trade him and the #17 pick for the number 2 overall.. That's a fair trade for a franchised player on a one year deal essentially.
Lots of options with that number 2 pick-trade it for a boatload of picks/ draft a truly can't miss ( considering there are no such animals ) guy. Just be done with this saga . I don't care if Donald Duck is our starting Q B next year.
That's a terrible trade.

Anyways. I've been thinking about it, and if we want to trade Cousins I think its smarter to trade him after the draft. My reasoning is that as soon as we trade Cousins our primary focus will have to be finding a new starting QB. The QBs in this draft class are terrible, so trading Cousins for picks next year gives us more draft capital to take another QB in next years draft. If we're really not going to make Cousins a reasonable contract offer we're better off trading him after the draft for picks in next year's draft, tanking this year with Colt McCoy as our QB and selecting our new QB in next year's draft.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
This is his last year here. They don't want to pay him and he wants out so why not trade him for whatever.. I'd trade him and the #17 pick for the number 2 overall.. That's a fair trade for a franchised player on a one year deal essentially.
Lots of options with that number 2 pick-trade it for a boatload of picks/ draft a truly can't miss ( considering there are no such animals ) guy. Just be done with this saga . I don't care if Donald Duck is our starting Q B next year.
That's a terrible trade.

Anyways. I've been thinking about it, and if we want to trade Cousins I think its smarter to trade him after the draft. My reasoning is that as soon as we trade Cousins our primary focus will have to be finding a new starting QB. The QBs in this draft class are terrible, so trading Cousins for picks next year gives us more draft capital to take another QB in next years draft. If we're really not going to make Cousins a reasonable contract offer we're better off trading him after the draft for picks in next year's draft, tanking this year with Colt McCoy as our QB and selecting our new QB in next year's draft.


It is a terrible trade ! BUT it's realistic . Maybe we should sign him to what he wants and THEN try to trade him.. ,,but we could end up stuck with the big contract .
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
This is his last year here. They don't want to pay him and he wants out so why not trade him for whatever.. I'd trade him and the #17 pick for the number 2 overall.. That's a fair trade for a franchised player on a one year deal essentially.
Lots of options with that number 2 pick-trade it for a boatload of picks/ draft a truly can't miss ( considering there are no such animals ) guy. Just be done with this saga . I don't care if Donald Duck is our starting Q B next year.
That's a terrible trade.

Anyways. I've been thinking about it, and if we want to trade Cousins I think its smarter to trade him after the draft. My reasoning is that as soon as we trade Cousins our primary focus will have to be finding a new starting QB. The QBs in this draft class are terrible, so trading Cousins for picks next year gives us more draft capital to take another QB in next years draft. If we're really not going to make Cousins a reasonable contract offer we're better off trading him after the draft for picks in next year's draft, tanking this year with Colt McCoy as our QB and selecting our new QB in next year's draft.


It is a terrible trade ! BUT it's realistic . Maybe we should sign him to what he wants and THEN try to trade him.. ,,but we could end up stuck with the big contract .
That isn't possible. If we traded him after extending his contract all of the prorated bonus money would come due and put us over the salary cap. Once we extend him we will essentially be stuck with him for better or worse for 3 seasons or so.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
This is his last year here. They don't want to pay him and he wants out so why not trade him for whatever.. I'd trade him and the #17 pick for the number 2 overall.. That's a fair trade for a franchised player on a one year deal essentially.
Lots of options with that number 2 pick-trade it for a boatload of picks/ draft a truly can't miss ( considering there are no such animals ) guy. Just be done with this saga . I don't care if Donald Duck is our starting Q B next year.
That's a terrible trade.

Anyways. I've been thinking about it, and if we want to trade Cousins I think its smarter to trade him after the draft. My reasoning is that as soon as we trade Cousins our primary focus will have to be finding a new starting QB. The QBs in this draft class are terrible, so trading Cousins for picks next year gives us more draft capital to take another QB in next years draft. If we're really not going to make Cousins a reasonable contract offer we're better off trading him after the draft for picks in next year's draft, tanking this year with Colt McCoy as our QB and selecting our new QB in next year's draft.


Even with McCoy at QB, we have too much talent on this offense to truly "tank". I think we go 7-9 or 6-10 with McCoy at QB, and we end up having to make another 2012 trade all over again.

I think the signs are pointing toward this LTD getting done right before the deadline. With his career on the line in terms of needing to have a big season this year, I really have to believe that Pryor received legitimate assurances that Kirk would be the QB this year. I also believe the stories that Bruce and Dan assured Kirk he would not be traded. I think they are just trying to get Kirk to come down on his asking price (which he won't do), and maybe hoping Stafford, Ryan, or Carr get locked up before July 15 at a more reasonable contract than Luck got, but they will eventually get him locked up at whatever price it takes right before the deadline.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, see, here's the issue with continuing to wait this thing out, it's only going to make his price go higher and higher. After Carr, Ryan and Rodgers sign deals that dwarf Lucks contract it's going to push Kirks way beyond what they want to pay. Again, this whole thing is stupid. If they won't pay him what he wants right now and are trying to lower his price it's going to get even worse after those guys sign. They did the correct thing tagging him after his first year starting but they're just being completely stupid about it at this point. Unless he completely bombs his contract numbers are just going to climb the longer they put this off. They played chicken and they lost, pay up or trade him.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Well, see, here's the issue with continuing to wait this thing out, it's only going to make his price go higher and higher. After Carr, Ryan and Rodgers sign deals that dwarf Lucks contract it's going to push Kirks way beyond what they want to pay. Again, this whole thing is stupid. If they won't pay him what he wants right now and are trying to lower his price it's going to get even worse after those guys sign. They did the correct thing tagging him after his first year starting but they're just being completely stupid about it at this point. Unless he completely bombs his contract numbers are just going to climb the longer they put this off. They played chicken and they lost, pay up or trade him.


With the exception of "doing the right thing tagging him", its like you're in my head. Everything (but that exception) is what Ive said ad nauseum about this whole situation.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just can't figure out why our management doesn't understand that overpaying now is a bargain later. As the cap goes up, Kirks percentage of the cap goes down. 5 years 125mil with 90 guaranteed is the right number!! It's market value for a top 10 starting QB in the NFL.
Why would Kirk and his agent negotiate any number less than the franchise tag number. He is guarenteed 24 mil this year and at least 28 next year. Signing Kirk to a market value number actually saves us money over the next two years, and will be a much lower cap hit over the next three.
I feel like I am on crazy pills when people suggest he should take a "home town discount". The Salery cap is designed to save billionaires money. Why in the world would someone take less money than they deserve. It's a disservice to themselves, and the QBs negotiating contracts after them.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
This is his last year here. They don't want to pay him and he wants out so why not trade him for whatever.. I'd trade him and the #17 pick for the number 2 overall.. That's a fair trade for a franchised player on a one year deal essentially.
Lots of options with that number 2 pick-trade it for a boatload of picks/ draft a truly can't miss ( considering there are no such animals ) guy. Just be done with this saga . I don't care if Donald Duck is our starting Q B next year.
That's a terrible trade.

Anyways. I've been thinking about it, and if we want to trade Cousins I think its smarter to trade him after the draft. My reasoning is that as soon as we trade Cousins our primary focus will have to be finding a new starting QB. The QBs in this draft class are terrible, so trading Cousins for picks next year gives us more draft capital to take another QB in next years draft. If we're really not going to make Cousins a reasonable contract offer we're better off trading him after the draft for picks in next year's draft, tanking this year with Colt McCoy as our QB and selecting our new QB in next year's draft.


Even with McCoy at QB, we have too much talent on this offense to truly "tank". I think we go 7-9 or 6-10 with McCoy at QB, and we end up having to make another 2012 trade all over again.

I think the signs are pointing toward this LTD getting done right before the deadline. With his career on the line in terms of needing to have a big season this year, I really have to believe that Pryor received legitimate assurances that Kirk would be the QB this year. I also believe the stories that Bruce and Dan assured Kirk he would not be traded. I think they are just trying to get Kirk to come down on his asking price (which he won't do), and maybe hoping Stafford, Ryan, or Carr get locked up before July 15 at a more reasonable contract than Luck got, but they will eventually get him locked up at whatever price it takes right before the deadline.
I don't totally disagree with the not being able to tank theory, but the reason you trade Cousins for picks next year is so you can package them to trade up.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
He's not getting traded. The front office said they won't trade him. There were like two articles out today quoting Kirk Cousins himself saying he expects to be a Redskin this year because the team told him he won't be traded.


With Allen now in charge, I completely believe it because it's a terrible decision. If you don't have a long term deal by the draft, Cousins is gone (or you have to franchise him again).

Houston is a prime candidate. They got rid of Osweiler. They aren't getting Romo. They have a stacked defense, a decent run game, and pass catchers.

Take their first rounder and go.
We don't have Houston's talent on defense. The comparison doesn't wirk for us.

Houston will do what they do every year, be lucky to win 9 games because of the strength of their defense and fail in the playoffs. I'd rather have a qb who gives us a chance to be more than that, all we have to do is get better than average on defense like the Giants and Falcons did last offseason and we're there! :lol.


Houston is a prime candidate to trade for Cousins. With Cousins, they're a Super Bowl contender.

The defense will not be good enough next season. Cousins is gone after this season without a long term deal. Trade him now while you can get a first rounder.
Oh yes, sorry I misunderstood your point before. I'd say if we were going to trade Cousins to Houston though in return we should get a guy like Whitney Mercilus or Clowney in return as well as a 1st or 2nd round pick.

If we are trading a qb who's played like a top 10 qb for most of the last two seasons we should get an immediate starter at another position in return or a qb who can challenge Mccoy as our starter and a 1st or 2nd round pick.


Lol, the Redskins have no leverage. None. If they get a first round offer, take it. Anyone who thinks San Fransisco or Cleveland is going to cough up their first rounder is living in a pipe dream.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Well, see, here's the issue with continuing to wait this thing out, it's only going to make his price go higher and higher. After Carr, Ryan and Rodgers sign deals that dwarf Lucks contract it's going to push Kirks way beyond what they want to pay. Again, this whole thing is stupid. If they won't pay him what he wants right now and are trying to lower his price it's going to get even worse after those guys sign. They did the correct thing tagging him after his first year starting but they're just being completely stupid about it at this point. Unless he completely bombs his contract numbers are just going to climb the longer they put this off. They played chicken and they lost, pay up or trade him.


With the exception of "doing the right thing tagging him", its like you're in my head. Everything (but that exception) is what Ive said ad nauseum about this whole situation.


I just feel like they had to make sure he wasn't going to revert back to the interception machine he was known for. Now that he hasn't it's time to pay, that's the way things work. I'm not Kirks biggest fan by any means but he's earned an LTD whether that's from the redskins or some other team. I've started to get annoyed with what the front office is doing to him. Yes, $40M over two seasons is a ton of money but it makes the whole team look foolish by dragging this situation out.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleveland wouldn't give up the #1 pick in the draft but I'm willing to bet they'd give up thwir second first rounder for Kirk. He immediately improves their whole entire organization.
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