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Jabril Peppers/David Njoku
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KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1880
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the comments about Peppers' bad film. I watched 4-5 games of his film recently and I saw a guy who needs to improve in coverage, but also a guy who flies to the football, makes good tackles, doesn't shy away from contact, has football speed. He was a guy who had to be accounted for on every play. I think he could play in the box right away as a situational player, but his coverage skills will take awhile to hone. Personally I'd take him over Watt, Takk, Lawson, or Harris.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is hilarious when I see people defend Peppers but blast Shamarko Thomas for the same things that they allow Peppers to get a free slide. I have no favorite player or school that I want to thrive or excel. Peppers as a Safety is a one trick pony type of player. I can't name one Safety that Harbaugh helped develop. Harbaugh is selling his player which can help his stock in recruiting for his program. He would be dumb to throw his player under the bus see Coach Kelly.

Peppers is a throwback who is solid against the run. He would be a project at Safety. He doesn't force fumbles and he doesn't get interceptions BUT he can get you some tackles Rolling Eyes

Why not grab Josh Jones, Xavier Woods, Tedric Thompson, Marcus Williams, Obi Melifonwu, David Jones, Eddie Jackson, instead of Peppers at 30? Some are more balanced or equal to Peppers in terms of athleticism but have WAY more experience defending the pass than Peppers, create more turnovers than Peppers but hey, Peppers can play RB Laughing
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2013
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
It is hilarious when I see people defend Peppers but blast Shamarko Thomas for the same things that they allow Peppers to get a free slide. I have no favorite player or school that I want to thrive or excel. Peppers as a Safety is a one trick pony type of player. I can't name one Safety that Harbaugh helped develop. Harbaugh is selling his player which can help his stock in recruiting for his program. He would be dumb to throw his player under the bus see Coach Kelly.

Peppers is a throwback who is solid against the run. He would be a project at Safety. He doesn't force fumbles and he doesn't get interceptions BUT he can get you some tackles Rolling Eyes

Why not grab Josh Jones, Xavier Woods, Tedric Thompson, Marcus Williams, Obi Melifonwu, David Jones, Eddie Jackson, instead of Peppers at 30? Some are more balanced or equal to Peppers in terms of athleticism but have WAY more experience defending the pass than Peppers, create more turnovers than Peppers but hey, Peppers can play RB Laughing


I appreciate the strong take on Peppers. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this guy and why he is so polarizing. Does he fit? What's his value? I'll have to go take another look with the Shamarko comparison. My gut says no on him but I want to take a deeper look and see if I'm missing something.
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SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 5554
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you gotta find out as much as you can if he's there though. He does remind me of troy and Lake and Donnie Shell at times as far as tackling goes. But if he can't play safety and/or cover..., then it's hard to justify a first round on a punt returner. Can he play man or zone, or both, or neither. I do not know. Some of the stuff he does is pretty crazy athletic. Kinda of tough to commit to these guys without doing the homework, and really knowing these kids. Can he lock onto a slot like Edelman? I don't know. Better find out.
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KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1880
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, you guys are looking at his film in coverage and comparing it to other safeties, when the guy had very limited snaps at safety. He played LB more often than not in college. Which is a fair gripe considering he will be a safety in the NFL. But to bash him for only having 1 int, when he only played(I believe) 49 snaps at safety? Like I said, he is gonna need work when it comes to coverage. I'll give you that. But look at his film again, and just watch him as a football player. And Armsteeld, did you really bash him for being a good tackler? If you look at our games towards the end of last year, we really could've used a good tackler on our D. We missed a ton of tackles.

So, to me, the bottom line Is this. I think he is a better football player than any edge we have a shot at unless Barnett somehow falls. I'll reserve comment on CBs because I haven't scouted them yet. He will need a year to work on his coverage skills before he has any shot at playing safety for us. He can however be used situationally in the box right away. He has the athletic ability to be a playmaker in the NFL. That once again will be based on honing his skills. He is a luxury pick to some people, we do have a few holes to fill. But I think if you feel a guy is a better football player than guys at your position of need, you take the better player. Especially in the 1st round.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3561
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLambert58 wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
It is hilarious when I see people defend Peppers but blast Shamarko Thomas for the same things that they allow Peppers to get a free slide. I have no favorite player or school that I want to thrive or excel. Peppers as a Safety is a one trick pony type of player. I can't name one Safety that Harbaugh helped develop. Harbaugh is selling his player which can help his stock in recruiting for his program. He would be dumb to throw his player under the bus see Coach Kelly.

Peppers is a throwback who is solid against the run. He would be a project at Safety. He doesn't force fumbles and he doesn't get interceptions BUT he can get you some tackles Rolling Eyes

Why not grab Josh Jones, Xavier Woods, Tedric Thompson, Marcus Williams, Obi Melifonwu, David Jones, Eddie Jackson, instead of Peppers at 30? Some are more balanced or equal to Peppers in terms of athleticism but have WAY more experience defending the pass than Peppers, create more turnovers than Peppers but hey, Peppers can play RB Laughing


I appreciate the strong take on Peppers. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this guy and why he is so polarizing. Does he fit? What's his value? I'll have to go take another look with the Shamarko comparison. My gut says no on him but I want to take a deeper look and see if I'm missing something.


I see a guy who breaks late and gets lost in space.

Really if you want a hyper athletic return guy with some defensive skills, I ask again why not take another guy who will contribute day one in the first and take Adoree Jackson in the second?

Adoree is all the return man Peppers is, and has corner/safety versatility.
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jebrick wrote:
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Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10157
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
The thing is, you guys are looking at his film in coverage and comparing it to other safeties, when the guy had very limited snaps at safety. He played LB more often than not in college. Which is a fair gripe considering he will be a safety in the NFL. But to bash him for only having 1 int, when he only played(I believe) 49 snaps at safety? Like I said, he is gonna need work when it comes to coverage. I'll give you that. But look at his film again, and just watch him as a football player. And Armsteeld, did you really bash him for being a good tackler? If you look at our games towards the end of last year, we really could've used a good tackler on our D. We missed a ton of tackles.

So, to me, the bottom line Is this. I think he is a better football player than any edge we have a shot at unless Barnett somehow falls. I'll reserve comment on CBs because I haven't scouted them yet. He will need a year to work on his coverage skills before he has any shot at playing safety for us. He can however be used situationally in the box right away. He has the athletic ability to be a playmaker in the NFL. That once again will be based on honing his skills. He is a luxury pick to some people, we do have a few holes to fill. But I think if you feel a guy is a better football player than guys at your position of need, you take the better player. Especially in the 1st round.


Could be play the hybrid SS role in nickle? I think so. The Steelers are really looking at those types of players. They drafted Travis Feeney who would have been more of a LB that could cover. They have had Samson Ebukam in for an interview who is the same type of coverage LB.

The question we can't answer is do they think he can be the Joker that Timmons and Polamalu both played? Do they still use the Joker role?

For a win-now mode he is not a good pick. For a future player he may be very good but we can't know what is said in interviews which would be key.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 3561
Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
The thing is, you guys are looking at his film in coverage and comparing it to other safeties, when the guy had very limited snaps at safety. He played LB more often than not in college. Which is a fair gripe considering he will be a safety in the NFL. But to bash him for only having 1 int, when he only played(I believe) 49 snaps at safety? Like I said, he is gonna need work when it comes to coverage. I'll give you that. But look at his film again, and just watch him as a football player. And Armsteeld, did you really bash him for being a good tackler? If you look at our games towards the end of last year, we really could've used a good tackler on our D. We missed a ton of tackles.

So, to me, the bottom line Is this. I think he is a better football player than any edge we have a shot at unless Barnett somehow falls. I'll reserve comment on CBs because I haven't scouted them yet. He will need a year to work on his coverage skills before he has any shot at playing safety for us. He can however be used situationally in the box right away. He has the athletic ability to be a playmaker in the NFL. That once again will be based on honing his skills. He is a luxury pick to some people, we do have a few holes to fill. But I think if you feel a guy is a better football player than guys at your position of need, you take the better player. Especially in the 1st round.


Could be play the hybrid SS role in nickle? I think so. The Steelers are really looking at those types of players. They drafted Travis Feeney who would have been more of a LB that could cover. They have had Samson Ebukam in for an interview who is the same type of coverage LB.

The question we can't answer is do they think he can be the Joker that Timmons and Polamalu both played? Do they still use the Joker role?

For a win-now mode he is not a good pick. For a future player he may be very good but we can't know what is said in interviews which would be key.


This is why I don't love it, along with the not seeing it on the field.

We need pass rush. We can't go into the season with Debo-Dupree-Moats-Chickilo as the 4 OLB. That's pathetic. Dupree is improving, but there's not additional rush. Even if you take Harris, and the plan is early in the season let Debo basically play 25-35% of the snaps, let Chick/Moats take 50%, that leaves 25-15% for Harris. Then late in the season you can go down to a rotation of Debo-Dupree-Harris (or whoever) and keep fresh legs out there. Moats becomes your coverage specialist OLB, Chick becomes your run stopping specialist OLB. Debo-Dupree play most downs. Harris is a pass rush only guy.

That's win now.

If we had the OLB spot sorted out I would be ok-ish with a Peppers pick. But too many other issues to take him here.
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jebrick wrote:
Quote:
Jarvis Jones signs with Steelers


Hahahahaha.

Jones' only chance is to go to Tenn. Otherwise he is flipping burgers this fall.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2013
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
JLambert58 wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
It is hilarious when I see people defend Peppers but blast Shamarko Thomas for the same things that they allow Peppers to get a free slide. I have no favorite player or school that I want to thrive or excel. Peppers as a Safety is a one trick pony type of player. I can't name one Safety that Harbaugh helped develop. Harbaugh is selling his player which can help his stock in recruiting for his program. He would be dumb to throw his player under the bus see Coach Kelly.

Peppers is a throwback who is solid against the run. He would be a project at Safety. He doesn't force fumbles and he doesn't get interceptions BUT he can get you some tackles Rolling Eyes

Why not grab Josh Jones, Xavier Woods, Tedric Thompson, Marcus Williams, Obi Melifonwu, David Jones, Eddie Jackson, instead of Peppers at 30? Some are more balanced or equal to Peppers in terms of athleticism but have WAY more experience defending the pass than Peppers, create more turnovers than Peppers but hey, Peppers can play RB Laughing


I appreciate the strong take on Peppers. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this guy and why he is so polarizing. Does he fit? What's his value? I'll have to go take another look with the Shamarko comparison. My gut says no on him but I want to take a deeper look and see if I'm missing something.


I see a guy who breaks late and gets lost in space.

Really if you want a hyper athletic return guy with some defensive skills, I ask again why not take another guy who will contribute day one in the first and take Adoree Jackson in the second?

Adoree is all the return man Peppers is, and has corner/safety versatility.


Agree on A. Jackson. Like him in the slot. If he gives us returns also, that's a bonus.

If you take a guy in Rd. 1, he needs to be plug and play, not necessary a perfect polished product but a known commodity in some respect.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think the Steelers need EDGE, safety and a CB that can play the slot and possibly move outside. And ILB that can cover is also not a bad pick.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 2013
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
Personally, I think the Steelers need EDGE, safety and a CB that can play the slot and possibly move outside. And ILB that can cover is also not a bad pick.


One of the reasons I like Desmond King, he can play both.

I might prefer for safety, on just a value basis, taking Peppers' teammate Delano Hill, he's got nice size, measurables and stats and likely can be had on Day 3.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude Jackson, Adoree Jackson, Lorenzo Jerome, David Jones, Tre'davious White, all have return ability and are solid defenders. Coach Tomlin or the ST Coach don't like defensive players as returners for whatever reason.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just going to point out a few things here:
1. Harbaugh has always praised Peppers. His work ethic, his intelligence, and his commitment to his team. It didn't start in draft season. And when it's that effusive, it's disingenuous to just dismiss it because it doesn't suit the narrative you prefer. I also don't think Michigan is so invested in the draft stock of Peppers to where Harbaugh would be desperate to sell him. Like they're short on NFL talent here.
2. Harbaugh's statements on Peppers preparation and instincts are backed up by the the way Michigan used him on the field. You don't line up stupid football players in 15 different spots on the field. That right there is pretty convincing evidence that he's not just full of it.
3. People very often times want to pigeon hole guys and talk about how long it will take them to contribute when no one really knows what will happen when a guy gets in the NFL. A lot of guys make big leaps and every year supposedly pro-ready players don't do jack. Artie Burns and Eli Apple are two guys I brought up who were supposedly projects, but made decent contributions on improved defenses and were among the top CB's of the rookie class. This goes for all positions. The pro ready guys often aren't.

I then get to see him compared to Shamarko Thomas...a guy whose biggest issue is simply that he's dumber than a box of rocks and blows assignments.

Peppers would have a role on the field from day 1 in various packages the Steelers employ. And I'd wager he'd be a lot better at it than Sean Davis was last season (who is a more natural fit at FS). I also think it's wrong headed to dismiss something as basic as tackling when it was one of the biggest issues this defense had last season.

Quote:

Could be play the hybrid SS role in nickle? I think so. The Steelers are really looking at those types of players. They drafted Travis Feeney who would have been more of a LB that could cover. They have had Samson Ebukam in for an interview who is the same type of coverage LB.


I think it's quite obvious he could fill this role. I also think he's athletic enough to play the slot. And my hunch is that the Steelers think similarly here. They are looking to upgrade the slot CB position from the guys they've looked at. They know Gay is gone and Golson is an unknown.

Quote:

Adoree is all the return man Peppers is, and has corner/safety versatility.


I'm not looking to spend a first round pick on a guy for his return skills. I think Peppers will be a very good defensive player and is far more versatile than you do.

Quote:
Coach Tomlin or the ST Coach don't like defensive players as returners for whatever reason.


I see fans tossing this notion out there. I've never heard Tomlin or Smith say anything of the sort. But the return experience Peppers has is just a nice touch. I don't think many people want a first round investment because they're so enamored with a guy as a returner. I don't think he's Devin Hester 2.0.

But I remain puzzled by many of the names I see tossed out here as better options if the metric is production. Because quite a few of them are more workout wonder types rather than good football players.
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
Personally, I think the Steelers need EDGE, safety and a CB that can play the slot and possibly move outside. And ILB that can cover is also not a bad pick.

Bingo! And there is pretty good depth at those positions this year. Hopefully they take advantage of it and don't throw the curveball and draft a "fast" guy or an early QB/RB. Though odds are there will be a head scratcher.
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