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PackyAttacky


Joined: 12 Mar 2017
Posts: 206
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cadmus wrote:
PackyAttacky wrote:
So whats to stop a team like the Browns sucking for years carrying over all of their cap and then looking like the Yankees compared to the rest of the league? Does it only carry over for one year or something?


Not a fan of mmqb (mostly just Peter King), but here's a good place to start.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/12/15/themmqb-business-football-andrew-brandt-contract-extensions-salary-cap-agents-recruiting-college


Thanks thats crazy. Thanks for posting though, very good read.
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DraftHobbyist


Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
justo wrote:
squire12 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


Should factor in HHCD too for his upcoming extension. That's at least $7-8m per year.

Other than that, not sure where that money goes.



Agree that adding Clinton-Dix to the list for extension options. Linsley is also a 2018 FA.
True, but let's not pretend like GB's second contracts don't often come down to the wire or that Green Bay has put a premium on retaining centers. Linsley's gonna have more starts than any center under McCarthy by the time his deal is up, right?


Seriously nothing to do with your post.

But it seems like we picked Corey over JC.

But there was a gap, yada yada.

Let's say they were both FAs at the same time, and this isn't directed at justo only. Corey was FA too. Just now.

We'd still pick him? Or was it a delay for money? Do we think Corey's sharper? Cheaper?

IDK it's been bugging me.


Corey Linsley is a better starting Center, although less versatile. The thing is that you never want to move your Center anyways, so in terms of starting, JC Tretter loses that versatility as a major benefit. That's really only a benefit while he's on the bench to backup multiple OL spots. Linsley's lack of versatility would only be an issue if he wasn't a starter, but he is. Simply put: Linsley is better than Tretter.
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Cadmus


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2337
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DraftHobbyist wrote:


Corey Linsley is a better starting Center, although less versatile. The thing is that you never want to move your Center anyways, so in terms of starting, JC Tretter loses that versatility as a major benefit. That's really only a benefit while he's on the bench to backup multiple OL spots. Linsley's lack of versatility would only be an issue if he wasn't a starter, but he is. Simply put: Linsley is better than Tretter.


I'm not sure I would agree with that.
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jontat83


Joined: 07 Sep 2016
Posts: 553
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cadmus wrote:
DraftHobbyist wrote:


Corey Linsley is a better starting Center, although less versatile. The thing is that you never want to move your Center anyways, so in terms of starting, JC Tretter loses that versatility as a major benefit. That's really only a benefit while he's on the bench to backup multiple OL spots. Linsley's lack of versatility would only be an issue if he wasn't a starter, but he is. Simply put: Linsley is better than Tretter.


I'm not sure I would agree with that.


He's definitely healthier, and the gap in ability isn't huge. Give me the healthier guy.

I get the impression the coaches are way higher on Linsley than fans.
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Cadmus


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2337
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jontat83 wrote:
Cadmus wrote:
DraftHobbyist wrote:


Corey Linsley is a better starting Center, although less versatile. The thing is that you never want to move your Center anyways, so in terms of starting, JC Tretter loses that versatility as a major benefit. That's really only a benefit while he's on the bench to backup multiple OL spots. Linsley's lack of versatility would only be an issue if he wasn't a starter, but he is. Simply put: Linsley is better than Tretter.


I'm not sure I would agree with that.


He's definitely healthier, and the gap in ability isn't huge. Give me the healthier guy.

I get the impression the coaches are way higher on Linsley than fans.


I have little doubt that Linsley can be a Top 10 Center in the NFL.
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


I think that number needs a little more explanation....

Next year, GB only has 31 players under contract. Yes GB has money, but they also need a lot of bodies to fill out that roster next year.
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From my perspective, and I don't know if Brett would say this [publicly] -- I know he's shared with me -- we would not be nearly as appreciative of everything that the Packers are had we not seen it from the other side," ---Ryan Longwell 2016
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 6557
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vegas492 wrote:
justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


I think that number needs a little more explanation....

Next year, GB only has 31 players under contract. Yes GB has money, but they also need a lot of bodies to fill out that roster next year.


That is true. The 2017 draft class + UDFA likely adds ~10 players to that total. 2018 draft has likely 4 comp picks in addition to the 7 regular draft picks. That gets you to 53 pretty quickly
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


I think that number needs a little more explanation....

Next year, GB only has 31 players under contract. Yes GB has money, but they also need a lot of bodies to fill out that roster next year.


That is true. The 2017 draft class + UDFA likely adds ~10 players to that total. 2018 draft has likely 4 comp picks in addition to the 7 regular draft picks. That gets you to 53 pretty quickly


If all are kept...yes.

I'm not overly concerned...the point is the GB has a very healthy cap.

But, I thought it was worth throwing out there that the good cap has a lot to do with minimal body counts right now.

Personally I hope we trade up with those extra picks next year, but we shall see.
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From my perspective, and I don't know if Brett would say this [publicly] -- I know he's shared with me -- we would not be nearly as appreciative of everything that the Packers are had we not seen it from the other side," ---Ryan Longwell 2016
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 6557
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vegas492 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


I think that number needs a little more explanation....

Next year, GB only has 31 players under contract. Yes GB has money, but they also need a lot of bodies to fill out that roster next year.


That is true. The 2017 draft class + UDFA likely adds ~10 players to that total. 2018 draft has likely 4 comp picks in addition to the 7 regular draft picks. That gets you to 53 pretty quickly


If all are kept...yes.

I'm not overly concerned...the point is the GB has a very healthy cap.

But, I thought it was worth throwing out there that the good cap has a lot to do with minimal body counts right now.

Personally I hope we trade up with those extra picks next year, but we shall see.


TT has a pretty strong track record of keeping draft picks for the 1st year or 2.

Agree on the healthy state of the salary cap for GB, almost to a point of where they might be needing to spend to get to the floor.
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


I think that number needs a little more explanation....

Next year, GB only has 31 players under contract. Yes GB has money, but they also need a lot of bodies to fill out that roster next year.


That is true. The 2017 draft class + UDFA likely adds ~10 players to that total. 2018 draft has likely 4 comp picks in addition to the 7 regular draft picks. That gets you to 53 pretty quickly


If all are kept...yes.

I'm not overly concerned...the point is the GB has a very healthy cap.

But, I thought it was worth throwing out there that the good cap has a lot to do with minimal body counts right now.

Personally I hope we trade up with those extra picks next year, but we shall see.


TT has a pretty strong track record of keeping draft picks for the 1st year or 2.

Agree on the healthy state of the salary cap for GB, almost to a point of where they might be needing to spend to get to the floor.

When I say "all are kept" I meant no trades. I expect that we will trade picks and not end up with that many bodies. I should re-phrase.... I hope we will trade up and lose some picks in order to get better perceived players.
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From my perspective, and I don't know if Brett would say this [publicly] -- I know he's shared with me -- we would not be nearly as appreciative of everything that the Packers are had we not seen it from the other side," ---Ryan Longwell 2016
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 6557
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vegas492 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
vegas492 wrote:
justo wrote:
I have a question. I'm not a cap guy, so excuse me. Green Bay has over $23 million in cap space right now according to Spotrac. Next year, they'll have over #33 million in cap space, if they keep everyone.

That in the rollover alone is ~$56 million, minus rookie contracts. Take into account the top 51 rule and it doesn't seem like that's going to be very significant considering GB has two picks in the top 90.

Per Spotrac, GB would save:
-$9.5 million if they release Cobb next year (going into 2018 as a 28 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$10.25 million if they release Nelson next year (going into 2018 as a 33 YO in his last year of his contract)
-$11.4 million if they release Matthews next year (going into 2018 as a 32 YO in his last year of his contract)

Is Green Bay going to have $80+ million in cap space to work with next year?

You figure:

1) The Aaron Rodgers extension is coming, but he's already going to have a cap hit of over $20 million, so he shouldn't get more than a $5 million increase at most.

2) The only veteran starters in a contract year right now are:
a) Morgan Burnett, who plays an overhang position when Green Bay let Hyde/Hayward walk
b) Davante Adams, but Green Bay is notorious in shorting players on their second contracts
c) Lane Taylor, who we don't even know if he's worth re-signing

Even if those guys all came back to market value deals, Green Bay still has at least $65ish million in cap space, considering the fact that we know Thompson back loads his contracts. What in the hell is Green Bay going to do with that money in 2018?


I think that number needs a little more explanation....

Next year, GB only has 31 players under contract. Yes GB has money, but they also need a lot of bodies to fill out that roster next year.


That is true. The 2017 draft class + UDFA likely adds ~10 players to that total. 2018 draft has likely 4 comp picks in addition to the 7 regular draft picks. That gets you to 53 pretty quickly


If all are kept...yes.

I'm not overly concerned...the point is the GB has a very healthy cap.

But, I thought it was worth throwing out there that the good cap has a lot to do with minimal body counts right now.

Personally I hope we trade up with those extra picks next year, but we shall see.


TT has a pretty strong track record of keeping draft picks for the 1st year or 2.

Agree on the healthy state of the salary cap for GB, almost to a point of where they might be needing to spend to get to the floor.

When I say "all are kept" I meant no trades. I expect that we will trade picks and not end up with that many bodies. I should re-phrase.... I hope we will trade up and lose some picks in order to get better perceived players.


I agree with that. At some point, quality needs to be gotten over quantity from the draft picks.
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HorizontoZenith


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 4990
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with quantity over quality. If every first round pick hit, yeah, quality. But when you have a hit percentage of probably less than 40 percent even in the first round, quantity is always better than quality when it comes to the draft.

I'd rather have 8 chances a year to hit on somebody worth their draft slot. Especially considering the current makeup of our team. Daniels and Bakhtiari are both top 5 at pretty significantly important positions in the league and they were both fourth round picks.

Now when you're talking about 5th-7th round picks, I'd definitely rather have quality over quantity. We're a favorite option for undrafted rookies because of how often and frequently we actually put them on the field compared to other teams, so we're not really losing much in value if we were to trade 6th/7th round picks to move up in the 4th/5th rounds.
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
I disagree with quantity over quality. If every first round pick hit, yeah, quality. But when you have a hit percentage of probably less than 40 percent even in the first round, quantity is always better than quality when it comes to the draft.

I'd rather have 8 chances a year to hit on somebody worth their draft slot. Especially considering the current makeup of our team. Daniels and Bakhtiari are both top 5 at pretty significantly important positions in the league and they were both fourth round picks.

Now when you're talking about 5th-7th round picks, I'd definitely rather have quality over quantity. We're a favorite option for undrafted rookies because of how often and frequently we actually put them on the field compared to other teams, so we're not really losing much in value if we were to trade 6th/7th round picks to move up in the 4th/5th rounds.


I love your use of Daniels and Bahk in that reference. That's what I want to have happen. You trade around in rounds 3 and later to get your targeted guys. Guys that fit your system well.

Finding guys like them are what I hope GB does.

It will be nice having the ammunition to move around in those rounds.
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From my perspective, and I don't know if Brett would say this [publicly] -- I know he's shared with me -- we would not be nearly as appreciative of everything that the Packers are had we not seen it from the other side," ---Ryan Longwell 2016
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 4798
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does genuinely feel like "there's a lot of money to spend and nobody teams feel like spending it on" is a looming free agency doomsday scenario that's been borne out of the erosion of the NFL's middle class in the years since the last CBA. Not sure it will be fixed in the next CBA, but it will probably be addressed.

The sheer number of guys still out there looking to get in a camp this year has to give the PA pause.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1510
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to Over The Cap listing of unsigned FAs. It's not totally current but the number of vets still on the street is pretty substantial

http://overthecap.com/free-agency

Revis
A Peterson
Vincent Jackson
Jamaal Charles
Brandon Flowers
Nick Mangold
Ryan Clady
Victor Cruz
Glenn Dorsey
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