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I must've been taking crazy pills, but (Nassib convo)...
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Might we already have two potential all-pros at DE in Garrett & Nassib?
Die in a fire
30%
 30%  [ 3 ]
If we don't end up with Garrett...*clenches fists & vein pops out of neck*
30%
 30%  [ 3 ]
I will agree with anything you say if it means we take Kizer #1 -b_m
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
I know no one will trade up with us so not worth talking about -eeyore69
10%
 10%  [ 1 ]
wwhd
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Stupid stupid stupid!
10%
 10%  [ 1 ]
I have all these emotions. Which do I listen to?
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 10

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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: I must've been taking crazy pills, but (Nassib convo)... Reply with quote

So I will say first off that I 100% understand why everyone is enamored with Garrett, and I will admit I don't necessarily have the balls NOT to take him #1 with the other elite players (IMO) being at less valuable positions overall. That said, maybe my eyes are just failing me or my homerism has gotten out of control, but to me I saw two huge potential hits in our last draft, both of whom showed major potential to really develop into something (Ogbah & Nassib).

If anything, the eyeball test to me actually had Nassib jumping out more of the two. I understand that Nassib got injured & is raw overall. Both players were (again, IMO) playing out of position in a 3-4 and are perfect fits as LE (Nassib) & RE (Ogbah) in a 4-3. With how many positional weaknesses this team has, could we possibly trade down in the top-5 for a haul (assuming that option is there) and pick someone like Jamal Adams (my favorite player in the draft)?

Please no histrionics; I understand that I'm speaking of witchcraft or something in here to suggest not ending up with Garrett--just a question.

The question itself is fairly simple: might we already have two potential all-pros (whom are both very young) at DE & thus would be essentially giving up on one of them as anything more than a rotational guy (just so we can go perceived bpa @1)? Is that premature or just worth it because Garrett is so athletically gifted & is a pass rusher?
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say you're right, which is a huge stretch. Nassib has not shown any indication that he can stay healthy. He was hurt his first year and lone year as a starter for PSU and was hurt last year.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Nassib as a sub for both ends, and starters as Garrett and Ogbah.

That said, if they see things the same way that you do, I hope that they trade down a spot or 2, for a hefty price, and get their guy there. No need not to sell Garrett to the highest bidder in that situation. That said, just draft Garrett!
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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
I love Nassib as a sub for both ends, and starters as Garrett and Ogbah.

That said, if they see things the same way that you do, I hope that they trade down a spot or 2, for a hefty price, and get their guy there. No need not to sell Garrett to the highest bidder in that situation. That said, just draft Garrett!


I'm not sure I even see things the same way that I do. I just think this conversation is worth having (even just to reason it out and put it to rest after fully considering what we have), as it feels in the forum the narrative was quickly agreed upon and passed along that we hit on Ogbah & that Nassib is *shrug*/injury-prone/a great rotational guy but fine to replace after just one season even though a fairly high pick who seemed to play well as a rookie. I could easily see the conversation being the opposite, with Nassib being considered more of a hit--just interesting to me how black & white the issue is being talked about as, "We have Ogbah at LE & Nassib as rotation; this is how it is and that's that".
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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Let's say you're right, which is a huge stretch. Nassib has not shown any indication that he can stay healthy. He was hurt his first year and lone year as a starter for PSU and was hurt last year.


I agree that his injuries are a concern (but possibly the only concern, not his actual talent?). I'll play the rhetoric game a bit here (to a bit ad absurdum, of course): would it be worth grabbing Forrest Lamp at #12 because he is both position-flexible & that it's better to have him because Bitonio can't seem to stay healthy? Should we draft a CB to take Haden's position over some other less valuable positions (TE/RB/3rd LB) because "Joe can't be depended on anymore to stay healthy"? Maybe the answer to both of these questions is yes, actually. And maybe it's still not exactly a perfect parallel. I admit, it did cook my brain putting those questions together Razz.
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NudeTayne wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I love Nassib as a sub for both ends, and starters as Garrett and Ogbah.

That said, if they see things the same way that you do, I hope that they trade down a spot or 2, for a hefty price, and get their guy there. No need not to sell Garrett to the highest bidder in that situation. That said, just draft Garrett!


I'm not sure I even see things the same way that I do. I just think this conversation is worth having (even just to reason it out and put it to rest after fully considering what we have), as it feels in the forum the narrative was quickly agreed upon and passed along that we hit on Ogbah & that Nassib is *shrug*/injury-prone/a great rotational guy but fine to replace after just one season even though a fairly high pick who seemed to play well as a rookie. I could easily see the conversation being the opposite, with Nassib being considered more of a hit--just interesting to me how black & white the issue is being talked about as, "We have Ogbah at LE & Nassib as rotation; this is how it is and that's that".


I am definitely not writing him off, I think he can be a core part of our defense. In this league you simply can not have too many great pass rushers. I see a 3rd that can play both ends being amazing to keep them all fresh, and we can use exotic sub packages to have all 3 on the field at the same time during pass rush situations.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
NudeTayne wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I love Nassib as a sub for both ends, and starters as Garrett and Ogbah.

That said, if they see things the same way that you do, I hope that they trade down a spot or 2, for a hefty price, and get their guy there. No need not to sell Garrett to the highest bidder in that situation. That said, just draft Garrett!


I'm not sure I even see things the same way that I do. I just think this conversation is worth having (even just to reason it out and put it to rest after fully considering what we have), as it feels in the forum the narrative was quickly agreed upon and passed along that we hit on Ogbah & that Nassib is *shrug*/injury-prone/a great rotational guy but fine to replace after just one season even though a fairly high pick who seemed to play well as a rookie. I could easily see the conversation being the opposite, with Nassib being considered more of a hit--just interesting to me how black & white the issue is being talked about as, "We have Ogbah at LE & Nassib as rotation; this is how it is and that's that".


I am definitely not writing him off, I think he can be a core part of our defense. In this league you simply can not have too many great pass rushers. I see a 3rd that can play both ends being amazing to keep them all fresh, and we can use exotic sub packages to have all 3 on the field at the same time during pass rush situations.


Yeah I'm on board with 3 good ends no matter how much we need another position filled. In the 4-3 we need as much pressure as we can get from our ends and it is nice to have capable subs and even a sub who may produce better than a starter in some matchups.

Pressure will help the secondary at least as much as adding players in the secondary. If Garrett is as good as advertised I would stay put even though I get what you are saying.
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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
NudeTayne wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
I love Nassib as a sub for both ends, and starters as Garrett and Ogbah.

That said, if they see things the same way that you do, I hope that they trade down a spot or 2, for a hefty price, and get their guy there. No need not to sell Garrett to the highest bidder in that situation. That said, just draft Garrett!


I'm not sure I even see things the same way that I do. I just think this conversation is worth having (even just to reason it out and put it to rest after fully considering what we have), as it feels in the forum the narrative was quickly agreed upon and passed along that we hit on Ogbah & that Nassib is *shrug*/injury-prone/a great rotational guy but fine to replace after just one season even though a fairly high pick who seemed to play well as a rookie. I could easily see the conversation being the opposite, with Nassib being considered more of a hit--just interesting to me how black & white the issue is being talked about as, "We have Ogbah at LE & Nassib as rotation; this is how it is and that's that".


I am definitely not writing him off, I think he can be a core part of our defense. In this league you simply can not have too many great pass rushers. I see a 3rd that can play both ends being amazing to keep them all fresh, and we can use exotic sub packages to have all 3 on the field at the same time during pass rush situations.


Yeah I'm on board with 3 good ends no matter how much we need another position filled. In the 4-3 we need as much pressure as we can get from our ends and it is nice to have capable subs and even a sub who may produce better than a starter in some matchups.

Pressure will help the secondary at least as much as adding players in the secondary. If Garrett is as good as advertised I would stay put even though I get what you are saying.


I believe it will in the end be a moot point (unless we get a QB-esque trade down in draft capital, which I don't foresee happening), as we will walk up to the podium & select Garrett. You & Diz make the same point that to me is the best point--too good a bpa w/top position (QB/DE/OT) where we could use three dudes for injury/stamina.

And Hornby would select, "Die in a fire", so you know what to do.
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AkronsWitness


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The situation the Browns are in they are behind the 8ball. You dont know how good Nassib/Ogbah really are because it was only 1 season. Because the league has churned out guys like Bosa, Prescott, OBJ and other rookie year sensations--now everybody is looking for that guy or else their are 'meh'

The thing is, we will know A LOT more about what we have with Nassib/Ogbah after this next season barring injury. Players usually take sizable leaps in year 2 and year 3 that show you what direction they are trending. If Nassib is fully healthy after this season and he notches 3-4 sacks, I dont know if hes nothing more than a expendable rotational pass rusher that can be replaced. But year 3 will be the deciding factor. Either way your looking for a trend with the player so you are not in limbo forever like we were with Mingo before cutting ties.

Either way the Browns are sort of screwed. The best player by far in this draft is Garrett and without any other reasonably decent option behind him out there, we are essentially stuck with him (for the best IMO). So outside of a trade down (which would be a Browns move in a bad sense), there is no way of getting out of him. You have to take him and if Nassib and Ogbah turn out to be 8-12 sack guys then you have a embarrassment of riches at the 2nd most important position on the field by adding Garrett.
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NudeTayne


Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:
The situation the Browns are in they are behind the 8ball. You dont know how good Nassib/Ogbah really are because it was only 1 season. Because the league has churned out guys like Bosa, Prescott, OBJ and other rookie year sensations--now everybody is looking for that guy or else their are 'meh'

The thing is, we will know A LOT more about what we have with Nassib/Ogbah after this next season barring injury. Players usually take sizable leaps in year 2 and year 3 that show you what direction they are trending. If Nassib is fully healthy after this season and he notches 3-4 sacks, I dont know if hes nothing more than a expendable rotational pass rusher that can be replaced. But year 3 will be the deciding factor. Either way your looking for a trend with the player so you are not in limbo forever like we were with Mingo before cutting ties.

Either way the Browns are sort of screwed. The best player by far in this draft is Garrett and without any other reasonably decent option behind him out there, we are essentially stuck with him (for the best IMO). So outside of a trade down (which would be a Browns move in a bad sense), there is no way of getting out of him. You have to take him and if Nassib and Ogbah turn out to be 8-12 sack guys then you have a embarrassment of riches at the 2nd most important position on the field by adding Garrett.


Yup. That was the gist of the thread; it seems we are behind the 8ball a bit. Perhaps I'm just trying to explore the fapworthy idea of ending up with, say, Chicago's #3/#66/2018 1st (which will be top 10 because Chicago) & Jamal Adams. This IS a great dilemma to have (Myles Garrett or that--win-win). Man, I'm so glad we found a Bizarro Tom Brady-level way of losing that Steelers game.
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we are behind the 8 ball at all. I hope we draft Garrett, and all 3 turn out to be spectacular. Genuinely a team needs at least 3. That would not be overkill at all to me. If Garrett is as good as we think he will be, he will make Ogbah look like a star opposite of him by commanding the bulk of the attention and scheming. Same with Nassib.

I liken it to the Cincinnati Reds from 1990, with "the nasty boys" Charlton, Meyers, and Dibble. No one was saying that they were behind the 8 ball with too many closers.
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DaWg_LB.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the concept of Flooding two of our positions and turning them into super powers...I think drafting garret gives us a DE rotation of Garret and Ogbah..Nassib as the main rotation guy, Tyrone Holmes and (hopefully they move him back) Nate Orchard at DE....thats a NICE rotation for Greg Williams, to work with....

I also wouldn't mind seeing us doing something like taking Engram and then grabbing the kid from Ashland on day two/3 of the draft...or taking a couple kids in the middle rounds like and grabbing 2 of the 3 combo of George Kittle, Bucky Hodges and Jordan Leggett.....or waiting till day 3 and grab say a Jonu Smith and Jeremy Sprinkle.....or last but not least....we've made some trades and have more late day 3 picks because we moved our middle rounds picks to move up to get elite talent and got 6th-7th round picks back as change....grab 2 of 3 combo platter of Eric Saubert, Tyrone Swoopes, Antony Auclair and Pharaoh Brown....moving Randle Telfer to FB...(This is the strongest class of TE's I have EVER seen in the draft)

We could rush the passer and give our young QB an elite group of Intermediate/Short range targets....
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kelbot


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of a 4 man pass rush line of Garrett, Bryant, Nassib, and Ogbah. Collins blitzing the A gap. I think Cooper could be an effective interior rusher, too.
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EL Brownso


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully expect to see all 3 of them on the field together multiple times per game. Williams will run a defense that plays to our strengths and when we get Garrett DE will be one of our biggest strengths.

Which can also help hide our most glaring weakness, secondary (safeties in particular).
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have an issue with the question, Nassib progressing cannot be ruled out. Who's to say he doesn't progress into the next Jared Allen (Highly unlikely but still a possibility).

I'd rather have an abundance of elite rushers than not having any.
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