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Who is your favorite QB Target?
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Who is your favorite QB Target?
Deshone Kizer
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Patrick Mahomes
31%
 31%  [ 15 ]
Mitchell Trubisky
39%
 39%  [ 19 ]
Deshaun Watson
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
David Webb
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 48

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wukusimw


Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 711
Location: Vermilion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
wukusimw wrote:
He's thrown some dimes at 55. Sure he could throw it farther but not sure he remains accurate, just the same as any other Qb. His floaters are more the product of dropping it in over defenders out of necessity. Can he squeeze it between two safeties 30 yards in the middle like seen from Kizer vs Texas or mahomes? Haven't seen him try except for maybe once a little off to the right. Next best example of similar throw would be final td vs Stanford. Not sure that's a throw you should or do throw very often however.


Its not about how far he can throw the ball, its about 2 things, he has a slight hitch when throwing, a wind up, along with a lack of velocity on his throws, not just floaters. Combine these 2 things and the secondaries in the NFL are just too good, those few extra seconds are all they need to jump routes all day long.



I wish we could sit down and pick apart some film together. I am grateful for your doubts because I just look closer at the details. The hitch and wind up are both very slight and natural, and they don't happen on the snaps or throws where they shouldn't. Every QB does this. Take a look at JG, he is very refined, smooth, and his release/footwork are quicker, but you still see the same things if you look closely.

Tru's feet seem a bit quicker than Carr, but Carr has a lot of strength when bouncing off his feet. All have a wind up when they need it. The only time a windup is a problem is when they bring it real low like Paxton Lynch or if they have it even on the short throws.

Now JG and Carr have been in the league a couple years, Tru can reach their level of refinement. The most interesting difference I see when watching them is JG always starts his drops with his legs angled towards his target. Tru only does this on those real quick reads. Every other throw it is always straight back not to give any tells to DB's, then he snaps his body/head towards the target. Sometimes he even maintains this when facing pressure. Also follows through even when getting hit or under pressure.

You would think that by dropping with your legs turned towards the target would be an immediate tell when teams played JG. But he is so smooth and quick he can easily make them pay if they choose to buy in. Carr shows this by starting the snap looking to one side legs turned that way then flipping to the other side and bombing it. Another tool in the chest I suppose.

Here is an example of a play I love from Trubisky:

https://youtu.be/e9Y9GHL2slE?t=131

As you can see, no hitch, no windup, and the same velocity as JG. What I love of this play is that initially I thought he took a mis-step, but what happens is he reads the DB trying to jump inside the receiver and has the quickness mentally and physically to take that front foot to the left, all while his back foot stays planted, and hit the receiver on his back shoulder.

These are the kind of subtle moves with his feet that happen in moments that are purely instinctual and your mind and body have to be in sync. He's able to pull this off consistently and on all types of throws even under duress.
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wukusimw


Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I did went back and watched a college game of basically every well known QB...

ARodge...a monster. Held ball high, lightning release, like he was playing darts. Very quick overrall. Jimmy G reminds me the most of him. I think Tru does have his level of accuracy/placement and decision making but not the release nor as fast/slippery and ARodge also picked people apart with the short game.

When looking for a Trubisky comp 3 stood out the most, Cousins, Carr, and Rivers. He has the body of Carr, and his arm strength and delivery are in between Carr and Cousins. He reminds me of Rivers in the way he plays the game and his stance. Rivers played under center a lot though! He is a bit lighter on his feet than all these guys. Also a better at not forcing throws and didn't really do any back shoulder stuff like Carr/Cousins.

Now the only one of these guy to go high in the first was Rivers, an he was 6'5. With the exception of Mark Sanchez, there really has not been a QB the size of Trubisky taken recently in the 1st. Locker and RG3 but their wheels got them taken that high.

DANG IT! I forgot to watch Teddy B. I think he would show some similarities as well.

All in all I'd be surprised if Trubisky goes in the top 20 due to his size. He could very well be another Teddy or Sanchez. Sanchez was ??? though and also played with some of the best at USC.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59112
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can see with any of these guys is decision making and physical skill sets. Mitch passes both for me. Can he process the NFL and all that comes with it? I don't know that.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40967
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
All I can see with any of these guys is decision making and physical skill sets. Mitch passes both for me. Can he process the NFL and all that comes with it? I don't know that.


thats basically what it comes down to any college football player.
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 3744
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the Stanford game, most in here that watched the game pegged him as a decent prospect with issues and second round level. At a push, late first. Wasn't much different to that in the media as well. Now we are a week away and all you can read is how the Browns would be hitting it out of the park if they can trade up and get him. Even as high as trading up to 2.

That's not even taking into account the rising talk about him at 1.

What's changed since he threw a couple of terrible picks and had a decent (but ultimately unsuccessful) comeback attempt in that bowl game?
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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
After the Stanford game, most in here that watched the game pegged him as a decent prospect with issues and second round level. At a push, late first. Wasn't much different to that in the media as well. Now we are a week away and all you can read is how the Browns would be hitting it out of the park if they can trade up and get him. Even as high as trading up to 2.

That's not even taking into account the rising talk about him at 1.

What's changed since he threw a couple of terrible picks and had a decent (but ultimately unsuccessful) comeback attempt in that bowl game?


He was movked top 5 before and after that game all the time.
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 3744
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
After the Stanford game, most in here that watched the game pegged him as a decent prospect with issues and second round level. At a push, late first. Wasn't much different to that in the media as well. Now we are a week away and all you can read is how the Browns would be hitting it out of the park if they can trade up and get him. Even as high as trading up to 2.

That's not even taking into account the rising talk about him at 1.

What's changed since he threw a couple of terrible picks and had a decent (but ultimately unsuccessful) comeback attempt in that bowl game?


He was movked top 5 before and after that game all the time.


McShay had him 30th. Daniel Jeremiah at the start of April had him 25th.

To be fair to him, McShay has Trubisky to the Browns at 33 in his most recent. So he is sticking to his opinion and not being QB swayed as we get closer. I could stomach 33.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 7640
Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wukusimw wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
wukusimw wrote:
He's thrown some dimes at 55. Sure he could throw it farther but not sure he remains accurate, just the same as any other Qb. His floaters are more the product of dropping it in over defenders out of necessity. Can he squeeze it between two safeties 30 yards in the middle like seen from Kizer vs Texas or mahomes? Haven't seen him try except for maybe once a little off to the right. Next best example of similar throw would be final td vs Stanford. Not sure that's a throw you should or do throw very often however.


Its not about how far he can throw the ball, its about 2 things, he has a slight hitch when throwing, a wind up, along with a lack of velocity on his throws, not just floaters. Combine these 2 things and the secondaries in the NFL are just too good, those few extra seconds are all they need to jump routes all day long.



I wish we could sit down and pick apart some film together. I am grateful for your doubts because I just look closer at the details. The hitch and wind up are both very slight and natural, and they don't happen on the snaps or throws where they shouldn't. Every QB does this. Take a look at JG, he is very refined, smooth, and his release/footwork are quicker, but you still see the same things if you look closely.

Tru's feet seem a bit quicker than Carr, but Carr has a lot of strength when bouncing off his feet. All have a wind up when they need it. The only time a windup is a problem is when they bring it real low like Paxton Lynch or if they have it even on the short throws.

Now JG and Carr have been in the league a couple years, Tru can reach their level of refinement. The most interesting difference I see when watching them is JG always starts his drops with his legs angled towards his target. Tru only does this on those real quick reads. Every other throw it is always straight back not to give any tells to DB's, then he snaps his body/head towards the target. Sometimes he even maintains this when facing pressure. Also follows through even when getting hit or under pressure.

You would think that by dropping with your legs turned towards the target would be an immediate tell when teams played JG. But he is so smooth and quick he can easily make them pay if they choose to buy in. Carr shows this by starting the snap looking to one side legs turned that way then flipping to the other side and bombing it. Another tool in the chest I suppose.

Here is an example of a play I love from Trubisky:

https://youtu.be/e9Y9GHL2slE?t=131

As you can see, no hitch, no windup, and the same velocity as JG. What I love of this play is that initially I thought he took a mis-step, but what happens is he reads the DB trying to jump inside the receiver and has the quickness mentally and physically to take that front foot to the left, all while his back foot stays planted, and hit the receiver on his back shoulder.

These are the kind of subtle moves with his feet that happen in moments that are purely instinctual and your mind and body have to be in sync. He's able to pull this off consistently and on all types of throws even under duress.



On that Stanford game, last 7 passes money, the rest trash, bad decision making, horrible mechanics, has slight trouble reading defenses, kinda out of control... I don't see it
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11438
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
After the Stanford game, most in here that watched the game pegged him as a decent prospect with issues and second round level. At a push, late first. Wasn't much different to that in the media as well. Now we are a week away and all you can read is how the Browns would be hitting it out of the park if they can trade up and get him. Even as high as trading up to 2.

That's not even taking into account the rising talk about him at 1.

What's changed since he threw a couple of terrible picks and had a decent (but ultimately unsuccessful) comeback attempt in that bowl game?



Ahh I see some of you guys are having deja Carr all over again.

Actually I've had Trubisky as a top 10 QB most of the year. He had a rough 1st half of that Stanford game, but he improved a lot in the second half. Against a superior team nonetheless. His ability to shake off mistakes to manning up and almost pulling out a victory says a lot about his football intelligence and make up.

BTW I'm starting to think we really do want him. Maybe at that top spot Twisted Evil

Buuuuurrrrrrnnnnnnn!!!!
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DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
All I can see with any of these guys is decision making and physical skill sets. Mitch passes both for me. Can he process the NFL and all that comes with it? I don't know that.


Skill set is exactly where I see him lacking. The ball simple does not have zip, in any of the videos I have seen. Even one touting him as a "franchise QB". Several of the throws, the WR has to slow down, and even stop and wait for the ball. Not because he can't throw it far enough, but because he can't throw it with enough zip to get there soon enough. I want to see a QB hitting guys in stride. Compare some Luck college tape to Trubisky, and there is a world of difference in this regard in the 2. I just see a lot of INTs at the next level from Trubisky.

The reasons for the ball not getting there in a hurry, throw velocity, and that slight hitch before throwing.

Regarding the release, I know its a lot to ask, but I want a Tom Brady release. I can't for the life of me figure out why other coaches/QBs around the league can't watch the tape and emulate it. Its really not that complicated. Brady simply carries the ball high, arm almost cocked and ready to throw immediately upon taking the snap. Yes, its just a 1 to 1.5 second difference. Its the NFL though, and every split second makes a difference between a sack, interception, or completion.

That slight delay in release with, what appears to me, low velocity on his throws is just not a good thing.

Can it improve? Of course, it definitely can. That however is called a project. If I am drafting a QB in a very loaded draft (this one is), in round 1, I do not under any circumstances want him to be a project in any way.
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Bonanza23


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
All I can see with any of these guys is decision making and physical skill sets. Mitch passes both for me. Can he process the NFL and all that comes with it? I don't know that.


Skill set is exactly where I see him lacking. The ball simple does not have zip, in any of the videos I have seen. Even one touting him as a "franchise QB". Several of the throws, the WR has to slow down, and even stop and wait for the ball. Not because he can't throw it far enough, but because he can't throw it with enough zip to get there soon enough. I want to see a QB hitting guys in stride. Compare some Luck college tape to Trubisky, and there is a world of difference in this regard in the 2. I just see a lot of INTs at the next level from Trubisky.

The reasons for the ball not getting there in a hurry, throw velocity, and that slight hitch before throwing.

Regarding the release, I know its a lot to ask, but I want a Tom Brady release. I can't for the life of me figure out why other coaches/QBs around the league can't watch the tape and emulate it. Its really not that complicated. Brady simply carries the ball high, arm almost cocked and ready to throw immediately upon taking the snap. Yes, its just a 1 to 1.5 second difference. Its the NFL though, and every split second makes a difference between a sack, interception, or completion.

That slight delay in release with, what appears to me, low velocity on his throws is just not a good thing.

Can it improve? Of course, it definitely can. That however is called a project. If I am drafting a QB in a very loaded draft (this one is), in round 1, I do not under any circumstances want him to be a project in any way.


You're being absurd if you want every QB to have Brady's release. It's probably the greatest ability he has as a QB and that's saying something besides pocket presence.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40967
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
All I can see with any of these guys is decision making and physical skill sets. Mitch passes both for me. Can he process the NFL and all that comes with it? I don't know that.


Skill set is exactly where I see him lacking. The ball simple does not have zip, in any of the videos I have seen. Even one touting him as a "franchise QB". Several of the throws, the WR has to slow down, and even stop and wait for the ball. Not because he can't throw it far enough, but because he can't throw it with enough zip to get there soon enough. I want to see a QB hitting guys in stride. Compare some Luck college tape to Trubisky, and there is a world of difference in this regard in the 2. I just see a lot of INTs at the next level from Trubisky.

The reasons for the ball not getting there in a hurry, throw velocity, and that slight hitch before throwing.

Regarding the release, I know its a lot to ask, but I want a Tom Brady release. I can't for the life of me figure out why other coaches/QBs around the league can't watch the tape and emulate it. Its really not that complicated. Brady simply carries the ball high, arm almost cocked and ready to throw immediately upon taking the snap. Yes, its just a 1 to 1.5 second difference. Its the NFL though, and every split second makes a difference between a sack, interception, or completion.

That slight delay in release with, what appears to me, low velocity on his throws is just not a good thing.

Can it improve? Of course, it definitely can. That however is called a project. If I am drafting a QB in a very loaded draft (this one is), in round 1, I do not under any circumstances want him to be a project in any way.


You're being absurd if you want every QB to have Brady's release. It's probably the greatest ability he has as a QB and that's saying something besides pocket presence.


man as picky as he is for a QB, I wonder what he looks for in a women lol
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He ain't that damn picky, he's in love with Brock effin Osweiler.
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big poppa pump


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
He ain't that damn picky, he's in love with Brock effin Osweiler.


And Chad freakin Kelly
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