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Sharrif Floyd suffers career-threatening complications
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 33730
Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
SemperFeist wrote:
G wrote:
Sucks for Floyd. So many so quick to blame the Doctor when everything might have been done right and it's just his body is not responding as most do and that is expected. I wanted the Raiders to pick him up if they had traded down again in that draft.

Disrupting the nerve during surgery would most definitely be a surgeon's error.
Not questioning you cause I have no idea the ins an outs of surgery, but how do you know this? A source, experience with surgeries?

I just never know what to think when people on a football forum are questioning doctors and surgeons.


Cleaning up a meniscus in a knee should have nothing to do with a quadricep nerve.

Saying that's surgeon error isn't exactly rocket surgery. Cleaning up a meniscus is a generally low risk procedure, hence why so many players have such surgeries in the off seasons. It wouldn't be viewed as that if one potential outcome is hitting a nerve and putting a career in jeopardy.
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Flaccomania is a genius who is an expert on literally everything he talks about so you should trust him. [/quote]
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The nerve damage could have happened if they applied a tourniquet or if they applied a local anesthesia to the nerve to name a couple reasons. It is not like the doctor went in there and just started waving a scalpel around. Bad outcomes happen in surgery all the time but malpractice needs negligence also. It could very easily have been a situation where his body responded badly to a routine procedure. The chances are very small but it happens sometimes. People get to sue crazy. Doctors are not perfect and bad outcomes happen.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All elective surgeries have a informed consent process prior to the surgery. All the potential risks are laid out and explained. The litany of surgical/post surgical complications is long. Worsening of symptoms, infection, nerve damage, dismemberment, death....are just some of the items that are listed within the informed consent document that the patient (in this case player) signs prior to surgery.

As to the "nerve damage" , that can occur from the use of a nerve block (as opposed to a general anesthetic) into the femoral nerve. Post operative swelling/joint effusion can inhibit the quadriceps from functioning well after surgery (actually not that uncommon). Various post surgical neuropathies and neuromas can develop following surgery and it would be hard to place a significant amount of blame on the surgeon in those instances. The sensory nerves around the knee (that are branches from the femoral nerve) can be affected in these neuropathies/neuromas and have a cascade like effect on the motor aspect of the femoral nerve that innervates the quadriceps.

Sucks for Floyd, but to jump to placing blame on the surgeon is unfounded.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
SemperFeist wrote:
G wrote:
Sucks for Floyd. So many so quick to blame the Doctor when everything might have been done right and it's just his body is not responding as most do and that is expected. I wanted the Raiders to pick him up if they had traded down again in that draft.

Disrupting the nerve during surgery would most definitely be a surgeon's error.
Not questioning you cause I have no idea the ins an outs of surgery, but how do you know this? A source, experience with surgeries?

I just never know what to think when people on a football forum are questioning doctors and surgeons.


Cleaning up a meniscus in a knee should have nothing to do with a quadricep nerve.

Saying that's surgeon error isn't exactly rocket surgery. Cleaning up a meniscus is a generally low risk procedure, hence why so many players have such surgeries in the off seasons. It wouldn't be viewed as that if one potential outcome is hitting a nerve and putting a career in jeopardy.
You didn't really address any of the concerns I had in my previous post... as far as I know you're still just a dude on a football forum talking about stuff far more complicated than football. If you have experience with these surgeries or you're in the medical field or something then I'll take your word on it, but as it stands right now I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the surgeon.

If he does have a case, hope he's well compensated
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SFPatsFan


Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2616
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
SemperFeist wrote:
G wrote:
Sucks for Floyd. So many so quick to blame the Doctor when everything might have been done right and it's just his body is not responding as most do and that is expected. I wanted the Raiders to pick him up if they had traded down again in that draft.

Disrupting the nerve during surgery would most definitely be a surgeon's error.
Not questioning you cause I have no idea the ins an outs of surgery, but how do you know this? A source, experience with surgeries?

I just never know what to think when people on a football forum are questioning doctors and surgeons.


Cleaning up a meniscus in a knee should have nothing to do with a quadricep nerve.

Saying that's surgeon error isn't exactly rocket surgery. Cleaning up a meniscus is a generally low risk procedure, hence why so many players have such surgeries in the off seasons. It wouldn't be viewed as that if one potential outcome is hitting a nerve and putting a career in jeopardy.
You didn't really address any of the concerns I had in my previous post... as far as I know you're still just a dude on a football forum talking about stuff far more complicated than football. If you have experience with these surgeries or you're in the medical field or something then I'll take your word on it, but as it stands right now I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the surgeon.

If he does have a case, hope he's well compensated


I've been on this forum long enough to know Flaccomania is a genius who is an expert on literally everything he talks about so you should trust him. If you don't though, I can offer my insight as someone who has a BS is biology, has taken a few upper div anatomy courses and is currently in pharmacy school.

1. The Quadricep isn't an actual muscle, it's a group of muscles and there isn't a "quadricep nerve". The most anterior of those muscles is called the rectus femoris and it is likely what isn't firing properly.
2. The rectus femoris is the muscle that would be considered the front of the thigh and it does attach directly to the patella or knee cap.
3. The vastus lateralis, medialis and intermedius which make up the other parts of the quadriceps are fed by the femoral nerve which does actually does touch the knee joint.

What I took away from this is that it is absolutely the surgeon's fault since it is entirely possible to operate on the knee without affecting the quadricep muscles, however they are all millimeters away from each other so it is understandable if a normal person or an unskilled surgeon made that mistake. However I'm assuming he went to one of the top knee specialists in the US and likely the world so that mistake shouldn't happen. Also when they say his "quad isn't firing" they likely mean it isn't working up to NFL standards which require you to be top .0001% of humans since if all 4 muscles simply weren't firing he wouldn't be able to walk. I find it highly doubtful that he went in for meniscus surgery and came out paralyzed because if he did he'd win his case immediately.

TLDR It's the surgeon's fault. It's an easy mistake to make but when you make millions doing surgeries you don't make mistakes like this. His leg still probably works, it just doesn't work up to NFL levels which is why his career is in jeopardy.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the schooling.

I remember when Palmer had his nerve issues and they said it "wasn't firing" in the media. I remember them talking about how there's nothing they can do to get it working again and there was no timeline. Eventually it started "firing" again and he was able to come back and play.

Is Floyd in the same boat? Could his nerves start firing again and he makes a full recovery?
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SFPatsFan


Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2616
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
Thanks for the schooling.

I remember when Palmer had his nerve issues and they said it "wasn't firing" in the media. I remember them talking about how there's nothing they can do to get it working again and there was no timeline. Eventually it started "firing" again and he was able to come back and play.

Is Floyd in the same boat? Could his nerves start firing again and he makes a full recovery?


Yeah he can definitely recover because nerves do heal over time. I don't know exactly what's wrong because the reports are vague and not in medical terms but given his circumstance his career might be done. I think he's in the last year of his contract right? It'll probably take longer than a year to return to normal because one of the things with nerve damage is lots of people experience numbness in even years after the nerve has healed.

Like when Manning had the neck surgeries he reportedly lost feeling in his fingertips and had to adjust how he threw the ball. Imagine a 300lb D lineman who relies a lot on his lower body explosiveness losing partial feeling in his leg or butt, it doesn't look good.

He can come back to the NFL with a ton of rehab and some luck and he can easily live a normal life but I don't know if everything will work out like that for his career. Not many teams would take a risk on a 300lb player who has no feeling in his thigh with the hopes that maybe in a year he can play and return to form after 2-3 years.

Continuing with the Manning example I'm pretty much 100% sure he did use HGH as some studies have show it is the ultimate recover drug from muscles to bone and even nerves and he still took a year off. Then when he came back he still had numbness and was clearly not physically back to his old self. The only reason why he continued to be great was because he is one of, if not the smartest QB ever and understands the QB position like few others ever have. I wish Floyd the best and there is a chance he comes back but usually when you hear an injury could be career threatening it's probably for a good reason.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they go hard after Hankins now?
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFPatsFan wrote:

Flaccomania is a genius who is an expert on literally everything he talks about so you should trust him.


Thanks, that's a nice thing of you to say.
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vikingshomer


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I will say is that this is a surgeon that the Vikings trusted, or at the very least gave the ok to. This wasn't was "low quality surgeon". There was no malicious attempt. It was just an accident. A terrible one, but an accident. No profession will ever operate at 100%, there is always an acceptable rate of failure.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Do they go hard after Hankins now?


I don't think he fits what we need.

ironically, Jonathan Hankins was the one that was meant to replace Linval Joseph, and now he too is a free agent.
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smetana34


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingshomer wrote:
All I will say is that this is a surgeon that the Vikings trusted, or at the very least gave the ok to. This wasn't was "low quality surgeon". There was no malicious attempt. It was just an accident. A terrible one, but an accident. No profession will ever operate at 100%, there is always an acceptable rate of failure.


Except medical malpractice is the 3rd leading cause of the nation's deaths every year. I understand Floyd's situation isn't life threatening, but my underlying point is that malpractice is a growing issue. While obviously they're unintentional, when do the "it was just an accident" reasons stop getting tossed aside when it happens all too frequently?
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Last edited by smetana34 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kellerman


Joined: 16 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smetana34 wrote:
vikingshomer wrote:
All I will say is that this is a surgeon that the Vikings trusted, or at the very least gave the ok to. This wasn't was "low quality surgeon". There was no malicious attempt. It was just an accident. A terrible one, but an accident. No profession will ever operate at 100%, there is always an acceptable rate of failure.


Except a 3rd of the nation's death toll is due to medical malpractice. I understand Floyd's situation isn't life threatening, but my underlying point is that malpractice is a growing issue. While obviously they're unintentional, when do the "it was just an accident" reasons stop getting tossed aside when it happens all too frequently?


If that's true then why do people even go to the doctor?
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smetana34


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
smetana34 wrote:
vikingshomer wrote:
All I will say is that this is a surgeon that the Vikings trusted, or at the very least gave the ok to. This wasn't was "low quality surgeon". There was no malicious attempt. It was just an accident. A terrible one, but an accident. No profession will ever operate at 100%, there is always an acceptable rate of failure.


Except a 3rd of the nation's death toll is due to medical malpractice. I understand Floyd's situation isn't life threatening, but my underlying point is that malpractice is a growing issue. While obviously they're unintentional, when do the "it was just an accident" reasons stop getting tossed aside when it happens all too frequently?


If that's true then why do people even go to the doctor?


https://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals

To get better, not worse. For what services cost, the rate of error shouldn't be as high as it is.
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Uncle Buck: "I'm expecting Kate Beckinsale to dump her husband and run away with me."
incognito_man wrote:

you probably have better odds of running off with Tebow.
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Jaguarfan


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smetana34 wrote:
vikingshomer wrote:
All I will say is that this is a surgeon that the Vikings trusted, or at the very least gave the ok to. This wasn't was "low quality surgeon". There was no malicious attempt. It was just an accident. A terrible one, but an accident. No profession will ever operate at 100%, there is always an acceptable rate of failure.


Except a 3rd of the nation's death toll is due to medical malpractice. I understand Floyd's situation isn't life threatening, but my underlying point is that malpractice is a growing issue. While obviously they're unintentional, when do the "it was just an accident" reasons stop getting tossed aside when it happens all too frequently?

First of all, no, that is very certainly not true.
Secondly, I'd imagine medical malpractice deaths have steadily decreased over time
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