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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 15359
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
daineraider wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
Well we would go from one of the youngest teams to one of the oldest.

I'm guessing Joe Thomas was traded because of age but then we get Romo, Revis etc... so there seems to be no direction.

They would win more games than the real Browns will in 2017 but way too many band-aids instead of fixes.


Revis/Romo etc were added on 1 yr deals and yes as more of band aides and not building blocks. I like having some solid vets to help the young guys transition. 7 of the first 100 picks in the draft are the building blocks to this team (in this scenario). I dont think throwing all 7 in the starting lineup with no vets or leadership would change the culture in Cleveland. I made it so 2018 would have a ton of cap space available and most of my FA deals were 1-2 yr deals just to help transition to the younger players.

I sort of followed Reggie McKenzies philosophy. He added Justin Tuck, Matt Schaub and brought back Charles Woodson and several other older vets to help the young guys learn. Woodson and Tuck werent part of the building blocks and werent able to see the 12-4 season on the field. They did help in getting that team ready to win games though.


Well you traded away our #1 offensive player and leader and one of our 3 best defensive players and also a leader so again, I don't get the direction besides making a bunch of moves to show that you made a bunch of moves.

If you are building a roster to win now you don't trade the face of the franchise. If you weren't building a roster to win now then you wasted resources and are costing playing time for players who will be around when the team is expected to win.

Also, I wouldn't start Hayes or Clowney over Ogbah. You also underestimate Kirksey as a player to trade him for Jordan and only move up from 65 to 54 in the draft.

I understand you aren't a Browns fan and may not have the insight of a Browns fan but to post your "voted 100% unanimous best offseason by the other GMs" here I would hope you would expect to get criticism if it is warranted.

And it is.


Wouldn't start Clowney over Ogbah? Dude was an all pro last season.


I wouldn't. I think Ogbah is going to be a beast. Statistically they were pretty equal last year but I expect Ogbah to have a better 2017 and career.


Where they go from this point forward is anyone's guess but to say Emmanuel Ogbah played as well as Clowney last season is simply not accurate.

Clowney was pff's third rated edge defender in the league against the run and was an all pro.

Ogbah had a nice rookie season.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
daineraider wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
Well we would go from one of the youngest teams to one of the oldest.

I'm guessing Joe Thomas was traded because of age but then we get Romo, Revis etc... so there seems to be no direction.

They would win more games than the real Browns will in 2017 but way too many band-aids instead of fixes.


Revis/Romo etc were added on 1 yr deals and yes as more of band aides and not building blocks. I like having some solid vets to help the young guys transition. 7 of the first 100 picks in the draft are the building blocks to this team (in this scenario). I dont think throwing all 7 in the starting lineup with no vets or leadership would change the culture in Cleveland. I made it so 2018 would have a ton of cap space available and most of my FA deals were 1-2 yr deals just to help transition to the younger players.

I sort of followed Reggie McKenzies philosophy. He added Justin Tuck, Matt Schaub and brought back Charles Woodson and several other older vets to help the young guys learn. Woodson and Tuck werent part of the building blocks and werent able to see the 12-4 season on the field. They did help in getting that team ready to win games though.


Well you traded away our #1 offensive player and leader and one of our 3 best defensive players and also a leader so again, I don't get the direction besides making a bunch of moves to show that you made a bunch of moves.

If you are building a roster to win now you don't trade the face of the franchise. If you weren't building a roster to win now then you wasted resources and are costing playing time for players who will be around when the team is expected to win.

Also, I wouldn't start Hayes or Clowney over Ogbah. You also underestimate Kirksey as a player to trade him for Jordan and only move up from 65 to 54 in the draft.

I understand you aren't a Browns fan and may not have the insight of a Browns fan but to post your "voted 100% unanimous best offseason by the other GMs" here I would hope you would expect to get criticism if it is warranted.

And it is.


Wouldn't start Clowney over Ogbah? Dude was an all pro last season.


I wouldn't. I think Ogbah is going to be a beast. Statistically they were pretty equal last year but I expect Ogbah to have a better 2017 and career.


Where they go from this point forward is anyone's guess but to say Emmanuel Ogbah played as well as Clowney last season is simply not accurate.

Clowney was pff's third rated edge defender in the league against the run and was an all pro.

Ogbah had a nice rookie season.


Clowney received 3 all-pro votes for edge it isn't like he dominated in the voting. If he wasn't a former #1 pick I doubt he would have received all three of the votes he got.

Joe Thomas had more than twice as many votes and he wasn't an all-pro. Mitchell Schwartz was though and he had less votes than Joe. It doesn't really mean much to me.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
I wouldn't. I think Ogbah is going to be a beast. Statistically they were pretty equal last year but I expect Ogbah to have a better 2017 and career.


Thomas, you are high on drugs if you think Ogbah played at anywhere near the level of Clowney last year. If you were worried about Clowney's medicals or cost, that would be understandable. However, Clowney is easily the better player right now and has as much potential as any young defensive player in the NFL.

I'll also point out that you can start JaDeveon Clowney at RDE and Emmanuel Ogbah at LDE while using Will Hayes and Carl Nassib as rotational players. If Ogbah is as good as you think, you'd end up having both one of the best starting duos in the NFL and one of the deepest DE rotations in the NFL.

Frankly, I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Daine did a good job. It wasn't the perfect off-season (there are some players who I don't feel are great scheme fits), but he added a lot of talent. And the veteran talent are all on short-term, low risk deals. You have a ton of cap room; it doesn't hurt you.

I get that many of you are excited about Myles Garrett, but you essentially traded Myles Garrett for JaDeveon Clowney, DeShaun Watson, Isaac Asiata, and a 2018 2nd. That's a pretty nice haul. If Watson pans out, you easily won the trade.
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
If Watson pans out, you easily won the trade.


Pretty big if.
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Total Control Mock Draft/Offseason GM:Browns Reply with quote

daineraider wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
I wouldn't. I think Ogbah is going to be a beast. Statistically they were pretty equal last year but I expect Ogbah to have a better 2017 and career.


Thomas, you are high on drugs if you think Ogbah played at anywhere near the level of Clowney last year. If you were worried about Clowney's medicals or cost, that would be understandable. However, Clowney is easily the better player right now and has as much potential as any young defensive player in the NFL.

I'll also point out that you can start JaDeveon Clowney at RDE and Emmanuel Ogbah at LDE while using Will Hayes and Carl Nassib as rotational players. If Ogbah is as good as you think, you'd end up having both one of the best starting duos in the NFL and one of the deepest DE rotations in the NFL.

Frankly, I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Daine did a good job. It wasn't the perfect off-season (there are some players who I don't feel are great scheme fits), but he added a lot of talent. And the veteran talent are all on short-term, low risk deals. You have a ton of cap room; it doesn't hurt you.

I get that many of you are excited about Myles Garrett, but you essentially traded Myles Garrett for JaDeveon Clowney, DeShaun Watson, Isaac Asiata, and a 2018 2nd. That's a pretty nice haul. If Watson pans out, you easily won the trade.


I didn't watch much Clowney this year. I know he made a lot of plays when he went untouched, which is good, those are times that you should make plays. He also beat a lot of tight ends. He does play faster than Ogbah but Ogbah plays stronger and under more control and control is huge in any sport.

I personally wouldn't trade Garrett for that haul. Clowney will be a free agent after the year so you either pay him huge money or lose him. Not the same as getting a rookie with 4 years of cheap salary (by comparison) instead of one. If I trade the #1 pick I'm getting a future 1st and still staying in a position to get a great talent this year, not a late 1st and a future late 2nd even with Clowney and his expiring contract thrown in. It is just too short sided for me.
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EaglesPeteC


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't. I think Ogbah is going to be a beast. Statistically they were pretty equal last year but I expect Ogbah to have a better 2017 and career.


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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EaglesPeteC wrote:
I wouldn't. I think Ogbah is going to be a beast. Statistically they were pretty equal last year but I expect Ogbah to have a better 2017 and career.



Your post makes it look like you agree with me. At least until the GIF.

We'll see. I'm not saying Clowney is garbage or anything just that I'd rather have and start Ogbah who has shown to be more productive out of the gate.
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ohiogenius


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is by far the worst mock i've seen on this sub-forum.
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The OUTLAW


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to sound too over the top, but IMO this is awful and it would be a ridiculous way for the team to try to do. Sure Clowney is a good player (if oft injured) but aren't you giving up a younger "generational" talent to get him all the while hoping that the injuries don't continue?

IMO this is as awful as it could possibly be
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buno67


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OUTLAW wrote:
I don't want to sound too over the top, but IMO this is awful and it would be a ridiculous way for the team to try to do. Sure Clowney is a good player (if oft injured) but aren't you giving up a younger "generational" talent to get him all the while hoping that the injuries don't continue?

IMO this is as awful as it could possibly be


I agree with you.

Rookie Myles Garrett or a 3rd year pro in Clowney?

Im taking Garrett. No knee injuries and I think a better pure pass rusher
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Tully305


Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Total Control Mock Draft/Offseason GM:Browns Reply with quote

daineraider wrote:
We just got finished with our GM Mock draft and offseason. I wasnt going to post my offseason, but I was voted 100% unanimous best offseason by the other GMs so I thought I would share my Browns draft.

Draft

Pick 18 - John Ross - WR - Washington
Pick 25 - Deshaun Watson - QB- Clemson
Pick 33 - Christian McCaffrey - RB - Stanford
Pick 45 - Gareon Conley - CB - Ohio State (I traded a 3rd round pick and Christian Kirksey to the Dolphins for a 2nd round pick and Dion Jordan)
Pick 51 - Traded to the Jets for Mo Wilkerson
Pick 89 - Jaleel Johnson - DT - Iowa
Pick 92 - Isaac Asiata - OG - Utah
Pick 125 - Kendall Beckwith - ILB - LSU
Pick 146 - Jamaal Williams - RB - BYU
Pick 220 - Zane Gonzalez - K - Arizona St

UDFA
Harvey Langi - ILB - BYU
Eric Saubert - TE - Drake
Jeremy Faulk - DT - Garden City CC

We started this before the start of Free Agency so a lot of the Free Agents I was able to acquire were signed by other teams shortly after I was able to get them so ill post them, but just know this was done before signing day.

Trades

Joe Thomas for 3rd round pick, Anthony Castonzo
#1 pick for Jadaveon Clowney, Pick #25, 3rd round pick, 2018 2nd round pick
Joe Schobert and Nate Orchard for Mark Barron and William Hayes
RG3, Shon Coleman, Jamar Taylor for Doug Martin, Evan Smith, Josh Huff
Josh Gordon, 6th round pick for Eric Reid
Pick 52 for Mo Wilkerson
Christian Kirksey, 3rd round pick for Dion Jordan, 2nd round pick
4th round pick, 6th round pick for Mychal Kendricks



Roster

QB- Tony Romo, Deshaun Watson, Cody Kessler, Kevin Hogan
RB- Christian McCaffrey, Jamaal Williams, Doug Martin, Duke Johnson,
FB- Marcel Reece
TE- Martellus Bennett, Gary Barnidge, Eric Saubert, Seth Devalve
WR- Terrell Pryor, Rashard Higgins, Andrew Hawkins
WR- Corey Coleman, Jordan Payton
Slot-John Ross, Josh Huff
LT- Anthony Castonzo, Ty Sambrailo
LG- Joel Bitonio, Spencer Drango
C- Jeremy Zuttah, Evan Smith, Ryan Jensen
RG- Isaac Asiata, Anthony Fabiano
RT- Ryan Clady, Derek Newton


DE- William Hayes, Dion Jordan
DT- Mo Wilkerson, Courtney Upshaw, Gabe Wright
DT- Danny Shelton, Jaleel Johnson
DE- Jadaveon Clowney, Emmanuel Ogbah, Carl Nassib
WLB- Mychal Kendricks,
MLB- Kendell, Beckwith, Brandon Spikes, Harvey Langi, James Burgess
SLB- Jamie Collins, Cam Johnson, Ik Enemkpali
CB- Joe Haden, Jordan Poyer
CB- Darrell Revis, Tramon Williams
NB- Gareon Conley
FS- Eric Reid, Jaylen Watkins
SS- Mark Barron, Ed Reynolds

K- Zane Gonzalez
P- Britton Colquitt
KR- John Ross, Christian McCaffrey
PR- John Ross, Christian McCaffrey

I pretty much used all of the available cap space for this year, but have several of the acquired players on 1-2 year deals and cap space would be easy to free up going forward. I added as many young talented players as I could while making sure to add early draft picks going forward. There were a few more trades that arent listed because I forgot the details, but there were a few added 2018 3rds I believe as well. I had fun Gming the Browns as there are plenty of picks and cap space to work with. Go ahead and tear this offseason apart, but I would love to watch this team. Im excited to see what the FO and Hue can do the few years with this team. I cant wait to see you guys in the playoffs (hopefully with us in there also).

Red- Drafted
Green- Traded for
Blue- Free Agency

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=586926&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Link to the award

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=586244

Link to the draft so you can see who was available when I drafted.


Are you really Ray Farmer?
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OUTLAW wrote:
I don't want to sound too over the top, but IMO this is awful and it would be a ridiculous way for the team to try to do. Sure Clowney is a good player (if oft injured) but aren't you giving up a younger "generational" talent to get him all the while hoping that the injuries don't continue?

IMO this is as awful as it could possibly be


Clowney was also a "generational talent." Difference is that you're getting Clowney and a haul of other players.

Y'all are acting ridiculous. If you want to see "as awful as it could possibly be," go look at your drafting over the past 5-10 years or the Rams' drafting from 2000 to 2009.

Clowney, alone, almost beats that. Laughing
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The OUTLAW wrote:
I don't want to sound too over the top, but IMO this is awful and it would be a ridiculous way for the team to try to do. Sure Clowney is a good player (if oft injured) but aren't you giving up a younger "generational" talent to get him all the while hoping that the injuries don't continue?

IMO this is as awful as it could possibly be


Clowney was also a "generational talent." Difference is that you're getting Clowney and a haul of other players.

Y'all are acting ridiculous. If you want to see "as awful as it could possibly be," go look at your drafting over the past 5-10 years or the Rams' drafting from 2000 to 2009.

Clowney, alone, almost beats that. Laughing


Unless he walks after 2017 then it is an epic fail. You would have Watson (not a fan of his in the NFL) and a likely late 2nd future round pick. I don't like trading for guys who are due a big contract, you are essentially using a draft pick to make a free agent signing, assuming you can get him to re-sign.

To go from 25 to #1 this draft only using draft picks you would probably have to give up #25, a 2nd, a 2018 1st, a 2018 2nd and a 2019 1st. So Clowney's value would have to be two 1st round picks and a 2nd. On an expiring contract? No thank you.
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AkronsWitness


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I got out of that was that you would trade Myles Garrett for Jadaveon Clowney and you traded Joe Thomas for a 3rd rounder lol

baaarf
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