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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RamPackFan wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.



I dont expect Adoree to be there at 37, but JuJu is definitely in consideration. Unless some like Lamp, Davis, or Ross is there at 37, I anticipate the pick to come down to Engram, JuJu, or Zay Jones.


who do YOU go with if you have Engram, JuJu, Zay Jones, Dan Feeney, or Kupp all available at #37?



If those are the guys on the board I take Engram and its not that close. The only one that I would take a tactical pause for would be JuJu, but thats about it.
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2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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Flatlyner


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.
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Gerald Everett, TE
Cooper Kupp, WR
John Johnson, S/CB
Josh Reynolds, WR
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatlyner wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.



He scares me, but he is uber talented no doubt. His ceiling is higher out of all the TEs in the class IMO. I still prefer Engram, but thats just a personal preference.
_________________
2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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iRaMs


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Flatlyner wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.



He scares me, but he is uber talented no doubt. His ceiling is higher out of all the TEs in the class IMO. I still prefer Engram, but thats just a personal preference.


I agree the talent is definitely there. He is one of my favorites in this class.
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StLunatic88


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 8161
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Flatlyner wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.



He scares me, but he is uber talented no doubt. His ceiling is higher out of all the TEs in the class IMO. I still prefer Engram, but thats just a personal preference.
Comparing Njoku and Engram as TEs would be like comparing Adrian Peterson and John Kuhn as RBs. Sure one of them lines up at the position, but no one would classify them as such.

Engram is just a slot receiver. Yea he is talented, but he doesn't help you out as a TE. Njoku is a freak, on a whole different level than Engram, and while his blocking hasn't been a plus from him, he can do it. And he actually plays as a TE. He would be our answer for the Jordan Reed role
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StLunatic88 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Flatlyner wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.



He scares me, but he is uber talented no doubt. His ceiling is higher out of all the TEs in the class IMO. I still prefer Engram, but thats just a personal preference.
Comparing Njoku and Engram as TEs would be like comparing Adrian Peterson and John Kuhn as RBs. Sure one of them lines up at the position, but no one would classify them as such.

Engram is just a slot receiver. Yea he is talented, but he doesn't help you out as a TE. Njoku is a freak, on a whole different level than Engram, and while his blocking hasn't been a plus from him, he can do it. And he actually plays as a TE. He would be our answer for the Jordan Reed role




Youre absolutely correct that they arent the same type of player, but if youre saying Njoku is AP and Engram is John Kuhn youre on one. Njoku is nothing like Jordan Reed. Njoku is more Jared Cook if you ask me.
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2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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StLunatic88


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Watch out for In Your Ear
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
StLunatic88 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Flatlyner wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.



He scares me, but he is uber talented no doubt. His ceiling is higher out of all the TEs in the class IMO. I still prefer Engram, but thats just a personal preference.
Comparing Njoku and Engram as TEs would be like comparing Adrian Peterson and John Kuhn as RBs. Sure one of them lines up at the position, but no one would classify them as such.

Engram is just a slot receiver. Yea he is talented, but he doesn't help you out as a TE. Njoku is a freak, on a whole different level than Engram, and while his blocking hasn't been a plus from him, he can do it. And he actually plays as a TE. He would be our answer for the Jordan Reed role




Youre absolutely correct that they arent the same type of player, but if youre saying Njoku is AP and Engram is John Kuhn youre on one. Njoku is nothing like Jordan Reed. Njoku is more Jared Cook if you ask me.
I was over the top with the comparison on purpose, but my point was Kuhn is a great Fullback, who happens to line up at RB sometimes. Same relationship Engram has with the TE position.

I would argue that Njoku can play just like Reed (boxing out defenders, owning the middle of the field) but that would be limiting his game. I think he plays just like some of the former Miami TEs. Specifically a mix of Shockey and Olsen.
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BEASToftheEAST4


Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of the main crop of players that are expected to be there at 37, I really want it to be Juju. I think that first pick of ours should be a receiver unless one of the top corners somehow falls. And of all those round 2 receivers, I like Juju the best--better than Kupp, better than Engram and better than Zay Jones. Kupp wouldn't be a bad pick IMO either but I'm really not crazy about Engram.
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6085
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone has their own opinion and I understand that Engram isnt perfect, but I think hes perfect for what McVay does and I think, in fact I know, that hes much more than just a big slot WR.
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2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 68152
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Njoku is more Jared Cook if you ask me.


If there's a Jared Cook in this class, it's Bucky Hodges. A stiff breeze knocks Cook off his feet. Njoku refuses to go down. He'll develop into a special player.

I agree with Lunatic insofar as he said that Njoku is a true TE while Engram is a big slot WR.

Flatlyner wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
One week away from the draft, who you guys thinking the Rams snag up with their 2nd rounder? I think it'll be one of the USC boys, either Adoree' Jackson or JuJu.


I hope the Rams will come away with one of T.J. Watt, Corey Davis, Forrest Lamp, or Cooper Kupp with their first pick. But what I want doesn't mean anything.


Add Njoku to that list and I'd be fine with any of those. Njoku looks pretty special to me and could realistically be available.


I didn't add Njoku to the list because all indications are that he'll go top 20.
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DEE RAWL


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Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said before, Njoku is capable of being one of the better TE's in this league, but I dont like to spend valuable money or draft capital on a gamble that someone might reach their potential one day. I like to be a little safer.


I get it, Im in the minority with my view of Engram. Im cool with it.
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2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 68152
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
As I said before, Njoku is capable of being one of the better TE's in this league, but I dont like to spend valuable money or draft capital on a gamble that someone might reach their potential one day. I like to be a little safer.


I get it, Im in the minority with my view of Engram. Im cool with it.


You're taking the same gamble on Engram.
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
As I said before, Njoku is capable of being one of the better TE's in this league, but I dont like to spend valuable money or draft capital on a gamble that someone might reach their potential one day. I like to be a little safer.


I get it, Im in the minority with my view of Engram. Im cool with it.


You're taking the same gamble on Engram.



Its a gamble in that every player is a gamble in general because you never know what will happen, but its less of a gamble because he doesnt have the same drop issues, he runs better routes and has a better understanding of the position. It depends what offense I want to run, but for McVay and what he does and the fact that we have Higbee to be the Y, Ill take Engram.
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2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 68152
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
As I said before, Njoku is capable of being one of the better TE's in this league, but I dont like to spend valuable money or draft capital on a gamble that someone might reach their potential one day. I like to be a little safer.


I get it, Im in the minority with my view of Engram. Im cool with it.


You're taking the same gamble on Engram.



Its a gamble in that every player is a gamble in general because you never know what will happen, but its less of a gamble because he doesnt have the same drop issues, he runs better routes and has a better understanding of the position. It depends what offense I want to run, but for McVay and what he does and the fact that we have Higbee to be the Y, Ill take Engram.


He does have the same drop issues, he has never run anything approaching a NFL route tree, and he doesn't have a better understanding of the position he'll play.

Engram doesn't have the size, strength, technical skill, or physicality to be an inline blocker in the NFL. He's going to end up being a WR for all intents and purposes.

You're dealing with the same sorts of risks and projections with the same sort of upside. However, I prefer Njoku because he's a more versatile player.

I also don't feel that Higbee's skill-set is maximized as a Y.

Getting back to Engram, I'll quote Lance Zierlein's scouting report because I find it to be an accurate summation of Engram's game:
Quote:
STRENGTHS Good explosion over the first 5 yards of his route. Plus athletic ability with easy-opening hips. Nimble feet with quick, controlled strides into and out of his breaks. Accelerates out of his breaks to uncover from defenders for quarterback. Will have to be guarded by defensive backs. Opens quickly to find the ball. Successful working all three levels at Ole Miss. Has true vertical speed to attack the seams. Competitive, athletic runner after the catch. Springy leaper. Jumped out of the gym to snare a touchdown over the head of a Georgia defender. Able to pluck balls low, high, and behind him.

WEAKNESSES Needs to learn when and where to sit down in the middle of the field. Must learn to do a better job of working back to the ball. Doesn't post up defenders effectively. Allows defender to work through him and disrupt the catch. Has had issues with drops and contested catches could be an issue. Allows throws to beat him up at times. Needs to do better job of selling a two-way go to the top of his routes rather than giving route direction away. Move tight end only who lacks dependability as a blocker.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 2

NFL COMPARISON Jordan Reed

BOTTOM LINE Makes up for his lack of size with athletic ability and plus speed for the position. Engram has experience as a safety blanket for Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly and can work all three levels of the field. He will appeal strictly to teams looking for a move tight end who can be deployed as a chess piece in a matchup-based passing attack. Engram's ability to stress defenses could land him on Day 2 (Rounds 2-3) of the draft and a potential starting role early in his career.


If you look at his weaknesses, those are all things that are very important for a slot WR to master. Those are things that Engram will have to learn and develop once he's in the NFL. As I've said many times, I have no issues with the Rams drafting Engram. He's a talented weapon. I trust McVay's call on a guy like him. However, he's not at the top of MY list in the second round. David Njoku is one of the guys at the top of my list if he's available.

I recognize that Engram is more pro ready, but he's also still not what I would describe as pro ready. Plus, he's two years older than Njoku, so he should be further ahead in his development.
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Njoku had a 31% drop rate while Engram had 22%.


I never said anything about Engram playing inline, I specifically made the point that Id draft Engram for this specific offense. Njoku would fit other offenses better where Engram wouldnt, especially if I wanted a TE with the ability to play the standard inline "Y" TE.


When I said Engram has a better understanding and is a better route runner, I wasnt saying he had run a full NFL route tree. He understands how to find/feel the openings of defenses and he has far better body control resulting in crisper cuts when he does run routes, in fact, go watch Engram's pro day-- he was running WR routes and looked pretty darn good. He knows how to stem and gain leverage against defenders. While Njoku is still growing/learning not only the position, but also into his ridiculously freakish body. He is a very raw football player.


And quite honestly, Engram is a better blocker than people give him credit for. If you havent already, go back and watch the game against A&M where hes able to maintain blocks against both Myles Garrett and Deshawn Hall, two pretty strong and talented edge defenders.


I dont agree with some of LZ's evaluation.
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2017 Draft Priority for Pick 37

1. Corey Davis, WR, WMU
2. Forrest Lamp, G/C, WKU
3. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
4. JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, USC
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