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No longer an offensive Offensive Line? (OL Thead v3)
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SemperFeist


Joined: 13 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
does someone want to go through and see what percentage of OL drafted in the 2nd-3rd round started in their rookie year?

Cody Whitehair, Joe Thuney, and Graham Glasgow were 3 just from last year.

Donovan Smith, Mitch Morse, Rob Havenstein, Ali Marpet, A.J. Cann, and Hroniss Grasu all started their rookie year in 2015.
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Heimdallr wrote:
does someone want to go through and see what percentage of OL drafted in the 2nd-3rd round started in their rookie year?

No one is saying its a good %, but just because it might be a low %, the thought should be completely dismissed or foregone?

I never said that... I'm just curious

I want a rookie to start.
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gopherwrestler


Joined: 20 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
does someone want to go through and see what percentage of OL drafted in the 2nd-3rd round started in their rookie year?


As Rookies

2016:
G, Joe Thuney, Round 3, Patriots = 16 games started
G, Cody Whitehair, Round 2, Bears = 16 games started
T, Le'Raven Clark, Round 3, Colts = 3 games started
G, Graham Glasgow, Round 3, Lions = 11 games started

4 out of 10 offensive lineman started games.

2015:
T, Donovan Smith, Round 2, Bucs = 16 games started
C, Mitch Morse, Round 2, Chiefs = 15 games started
T, Jake Fisher, Round 2, Bengals = 1 game started
T, Rob Havenstein, Round 2, Rams = 13 games started
T Ty Sambrailo, Round 2, Broncos = 3 games started
G, Ali Marpet , Round 3, Bucs = 13 games started
T, Jeremiah Poutasi, Round 3, Titans = 7 games started
G, A. J. Cann, Round 3, Jaguars = 13 games started
C, Hroniss Grasu, Round 3, Bears = 8 games started
G, Jamon Brown, Round 3, Rams = 9 games started
G, John Miller, Round 3, Bills = 12 games started


11 out of 12 rookies started games


Just looking at these 2 classes, last years class was very poor. This year's class is even worse. 3 years ago was a huge class of lineman that had starters in the 4th and 5th.

Throughout the years tho guards in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round usually have a better shot at starting before a tackle. But Tackles also get drafted earlier. A lot of the time the top guards are still available in the second round. They need a lot less development. The speed of the edge rushers in the NFL takes time to get used to and they need time to develop into something.

Usually if they are capable starters at Left Tackle as rookies they are getting took in the 1st round. You will also be seeing this in 2017.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an awful LT class with very little depth. That's why I think we're forced to start Reiff at LT and look to draft a LT in 2018 when we have a first rd pick.

The RT class isn't much better but if there is better value at RT than RG, I'd take a RT and move Remmers to G.

In the end, I think we'll go RG in round two and grab a developmental OT in round 3 or 4.
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, for what it is worth... Next years tackle class is pretty loaded also. Guard class is pretty bland next year.

I don't know how much teams "really" look at that outside of the QB and maybe a few skill position classes. I also don't know if that is the right way to look at it also.
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ideal 2nd round pick this year is Taylor Moton. He can play both right guard or right tackle. That would give the team even more flexibility, and should lock down at least one position on the right side.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:
My ideal 2nd round pick this year is Taylor Moton. He can play both right guard or right tackle. That would give the team even more flexibility, and should lock down at least one position on the right side.


I agree. I think finding a position flexible player in round two is ideal. You could let Remmers and Moton compete for spots on the right side and see what the best setup is, either Remmers at RG or RT. Position flexibility and durability will be two traits that Spielman will prioritize if FA is any indication to what he's looking for.
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggest issue is, Moton probably wont be there when we draft. 4th best offensive tackle. 3 probably going in round 1. There are a lot of OT needy teams at the top end of the draft in front of us.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope we're still having some discussions with Browns regarding Joe Thomas.
Weigh that acquisition to what is available on the draft board & later in the draft.

We posted 3rd best defense last year, and we made a trade to upgrade our QB1, do it again to upgrade the LT and the whole OL

Thomas - Boone - Berger - Remmers - Reiff
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I hope we're still having some discussions with Browns regarding Joe Thomas.
Weigh that acquisition to what he available on the board & later in the draft

We posted 3rd best defense last year, and we made a trade to upgrade our QB1, do it again to upgrade the LT and the whole OL

Thomas - Boone - Berger - Remmers - Reiff


Pretty sure that was a fake account on twitter that had that posted.

They would never shop him unless it was an outrageous return. He was a key to recruiting the offensive lineman they did have. He is literally their face, and best player
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopherwrestler wrote:
He was a key to recruiting the offensive lineman they did have. He is literally their face, and best player


No one is disputing that. But Browns are playing the draft game for the next 2 season. They surely know they are wasting 2 top seasons of Thomas play.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
gopherwrestler wrote:
He was a key to recruiting the offensive lineman they did have. He is literally their face, and best player


No one is disputing that. But Browns are playing the draft game for the next 2 season. They surely know they are wasting 2 top seasons of Thomas play.


Not entirely. Say the Browns draft a young QB. Shouldn't Cleveland try and put the best team around that rookie QB? They've had so many failed QB picks but when have they had an OL as good as they currently have? Cleveland has to keep Thomas barring a great offer. We'd probably have to give up a 2nd and 3rd just to get them talking. Not worth it.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
gopherwrestler wrote:
He was a key to recruiting the offensive lineman they did have. He is literally their face, and best player


No one is disputing that. But Browns are playing the draft game for the next 2 season. They surely know they are wasting 2 top seasons of Thomas play.


Not entirely. Say the Browns draft a young QB. Shouldn't Cleveland try and put the best team around that rookie QB? They've had so many failed QB picks but when have they had an OL as good as they currently have? Cleveland has to keep Thomas barring a great offer. We'd probably have to give up a 2nd and 3rd just to get them talking. Not worth it.


What if Browns draft a LT before/at their #33 pick.
For discussion sake
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
gopherwrestler wrote:
He was a key to recruiting the offensive lineman they did have. He is literally their face, and best player


No one is disputing that. But Browns are playing the draft game for the next 2 season. They surely know they are wasting 2 top seasons of Thomas play.


Not entirely. Say the Browns draft a young QB. Shouldn't Cleveland try and put the best team around that rookie QB? They've had so many failed QB picks but when have they had an OL as good as they currently have? Cleveland has to keep Thomas barring a great offer. We'd probably have to give up a 2nd and 3rd just to get them talking. Not worth it.


Cleveland could literally go Garrett, Watson, Ju-Ju, and Mixon

Having Watson at QB, Running with Mixon/Crowell/Johnson, Coleman, Ju-Ju, Britt, Barnidge, and that offensive line.... I mean that could be a heck of a team to build around.

Heck, whose to say Thomas can't play until he is 36-37. 3 years with those players, plus all the picks they have next year they can build. Allows them to look to draft Thomas's replacement in the future also.


CriminalMind wrote:

What if Browns draft a LT before/at their #33 pick.
For discussion sake

Great for them, who better to learn under than the best LT in the league. Let him sit for 2 years and then maybe move on from Thomas.

Not like Ramczyk, Robinson, or Bolles would be there, only LT's that are ready to start.
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Virginia Viking


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On paper, perhaps the offensive line has improved. We won't know for sure until they start playing real games in September. Even great individual players have a tough time forming into a unit. It's important to remember that the goal is to have a great unit...and not necessarily the greatest players at the individual positions.

As an example, the Redskins line of the 1980's, I don't think had any high draft picks except Mark May. They played perfectly together and won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks.
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