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No longer an offensive Offensive Line? (OL Thead v3)
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: No longer an offensive Offensive Line? (OL Thead v3) Reply with quote

2016 (training camp)
LT: Matt Kalil, TJ Clemmings, Carter Bykowski
LG: Alex Boone, Willie Beavers
C: John Sullivan, Joe Berger, Nick Easton
RG: Brandon Fusco, Zac Kerin
RT: Phil Loadholt, Andre Smith, Jeremiah Sirles


2017 (current)
LT: Reilly Reiff, Rashod Hill
LG: Alex Boone, Willie Beavers
C: Joe Berger, Nick Easton
RG: Jeremiah Sirles, Zac Kerin
RT: Mike Remmers, TJ Clemmings


Is the OL improved? What still needs to be done?
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The offensive line is improved. It's not a finished product by any means, and it may only be improved to average, but even average is substantially better than where they were in 2016.

The tackle spots are better with Reiff and Remmers than they were with any combination of Kalil, Smith, Sirles, Long, and Clemmings. Reiff isn't an all pro type player, but he's reliable and consistent. Remmers is an average right tackle, but like Reiff, he is also reliable and consistent. Two characteristics that the Vikings have lacked along the offensive line.

The interior of the line needs a little more work, most notably at the right guard spot. Boone should be just fine next to Reiff, and hopefully Berger can continue his level of play from 2015 and 2016. But the right guard spot is a hole. I'm hoping they can nab a starter in round 2, there are a number of solid options predicted to be available.


FYI, it's Rashod Hill

Honestly, heading into the season, I'd like to see;

LT: Riley Reiff, Rashod Hill
LG: Alex Boone, Willie Beavers (I'm hoping for some sort of development)
C: Joe Berger, Rookie TBD, Nick Easton
RG: Rookie TBD, Jeremiah Sirles
RT: Mike Remmers
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perrynoid


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly, the OL has improved. Having said that, I would still draft OL heavily in the upcoming draft. It would look something like this:

2nd (48th overall) Dion Dawkins OG-expect him to start at RG from day 1
3rd (79th overall) Joe Mixon RB-in the mix at RB
3rd (86th overall) Ethan Pocic C-eventual starter at C
4th (120th overall) Adam Bisnowaty OT-groom to back-up or start at LT
4th (128th overall) Carrol Phillips OLB-start at OLB or at least provide depth

This should give us some solid o-line players that at the very least would provide quality depth.
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However, you're right that it did improve a bit. I'm just not sure I trust our coaching staff to develop offensive lineman.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity has there been any dialogue from RS/MZ about the RG position. I'm just wondering if they are pegging Jeremiah Sirles as the RG starter, and don't see if as a "must outright upgrade".
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Out of curiosity has there been any dialogue from RS/MZ about the RG position. I'm just wondering if they are pegging Jeremiah Sirles as the RG starter, and don't see if as a "must outright upgrade".

considering they still had Fusco starting over Sirles they can't be super high on him. at least not to the point of letting him be the presumptive starter.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am much more confident this OL can be close to median than I was last year. I frankly don't LOVE one of these players, but other than RG, there isn't a huge gaping hole like last year looked like to some of us, even before the year started.

I'd want a RG early in the draft. It's not like Boone was awesome last year, so OG is going to be a need, even if Sriles turns out (which I doublt).

I'd like, but could live w/o, a C to be drafted early also. Berger isn't getting younger.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
I am much more confident this OL can be close to median than I was last year. I frankly don't LOVE one of these players, but other than RG, there isn't a huge gaping hole like last year looked like to some of us, even before the year started.

I'd want a RG early in the draft. It's not like Boone was awesome last year, so OG is going to be a need, even if Sriles turns out (which I doublt).

I'd like, but could live w/o, a C to be drafted early also. Berger isn't getting younger.


Most fans believe RG will be the first pick, unless a near blue chip RB or TE or WR drops to 48.

Then, after RG, the next OL to be drafted doesn't seem as clear to me as it does to you. I could see either a C or OT drafted after a RG. Whichever it is will signal something about what Spielman and Zimmer think about the current roster Cs and Ts.... i.e. they'll draft the position for which the current roster is graded worse than the other (between C, T).
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
I am much more confident this OL can be close to median than I was last year. I frankly don't LOVE one of these players, but other than RG, there isn't a huge gaping hole like last year looked like to some of us, even before the year started.

I'd want a RG early in the draft. It's not like Boone was awesome last year, so OG is going to be a need, even if Sriles turns out (which I doublt).

I'd like, but could live w/o, a C to be drafted early also. Berger isn't getting younger.


Most fans believe RG will be the first pick, unless a near blue chip RB or TE or WR drops to 48.

Then, after RG, the next OL to be drafted doesn't seem as clear to me as it does to you. I could see either a C or OT drafted after a RG. Whichever it is will signal something about what Spielman and Zimmer think about the current roster Cs and Ts.... i.e. they'll draft the position for which the current roster is graded worse than the other (between C, T).


Agree completely. IMO, their track record at drafting OL late hasn't been good, but maybe I'm just not right on that. So, I kind of would rather they take some great athletes late, that can help on ST as either gunners or returners (and maybe get lucky they can play LB or DB).
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
I am much more confident this OL can be close to median than I was last year. I frankly don't LOVE one of these players, but other than RG, there isn't a huge gaping hole like last year looked like to some of us, even before the year started.

I'd want a RG early in the draft. It's not like Boone was awesome last year, so OG is going to be a need, even if Sriles turns out (which I doublt).

I'd like, but could live w/o, a C to be drafted early also. Berger isn't getting younger.


Most fans believe RG will be the first pick, unless a near blue chip RB or TE or WR drops to 48.

Then, after RG, the next OL to be drafted doesn't seem as clear to me as it does to you. I could see either a C or OT drafted after a RG. Whichever it is will signal something about what Spielman and Zimmer think about the current roster Cs and Ts.... i.e. they'll draft the position for which the current roster is graded worse than the other (between C, T).


I really think a TE/WR at #48 would likely be a poor selection for our team as currently constructed.

BPA between OG/OT/C/LB/DT/SS/RB would be better based on our roster
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RT still worries me and there is a hole at RG. I'm not going to get overly excited about Remmers, he's well below average for starting RTs. He might be better off playing RG if MN can find a RT in the draft.

I think this OL will be better as a run blocking unit but will still struggle in pass protection. Reiff should be a RT and Remmers is a stop gap.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
RT still worries me and there is a hole at RG. I'm not going to get overly excited about Remmers, he's well below average for starting RTs. He might be better off playing RG if MN can find a RT in the draft.

I think this OL will be better as a run blocking unit but will still struggle in pass protection. Reiff should be a RT and Remmers is a stop gap.


This is why I want to draft a LT with one of our top 3 picks.
I want to have the option of best case scenario:

Rookie LT - Boone - Beger - Remmers - Reiff

here the LG-C-RG-RT are in the best possible positions for their talent I feel.
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
RT still worries me and there is a hole at RG. I'm not going to get overly excited about Remmers, he's well below average for starting RTs. He might be better off playing RG if MN can find a RT in the draft.

I think this OL will be better as a run blocking unit but will still struggle in pass protection. Reiff should be a RT and Remmers is a stop gap.


This is why I want to draft a LT with one of our top 3 picks.
I want to have the option of best case scenario:

Rookie LT - Boone - Beger - Remmers - Reiff

here the LG-C-RG-RT are in the best possible positions for their talent I feel.


It would be great to do that..... but now you have a hard weakness at LT. In our top 3 picks, I honestly don't see a LT that's ready to start day 1.

I personally love the idea of it. Moton is probably the most ready to play tackle that MAY be available, but the kid has never played left tackle.

I like Garcia, but he is pretty far from being a day one starter.

Probably the most ready is Will Holden to slide in there for LT. Probably also best suited tho to be slammed in there at RT.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
RT still worries me and there is a hole at RG. I'm not going to get overly excited about Remmers, he's well below average for starting RTs. He might be better off playing RG if MN can find a RT in the draft.

I think this OL will be better as a run blocking unit but will still struggle in pass protection. Reiff should be a RT and Remmers is a stop gap.


This is why I want to draft a LT with one of our top 3 picks.
I want to have the option of best case scenario:

Rookie LT - Boone - Beger - Remmers - Reiff

here the LG-C-RG-RT are in the best possible positions for their talent I feel.


I have been told repeatedly there aren't any starting OTs by our pick, not unless you get lucky. Has this team been lucky with OL picks in the last few years?
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does someone want to go through and see what percentage of OL drafted in the 2nd-3rd round started in their rookie year?
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
does someone want to go through and see what percentage of OL drafted in the 2nd-3rd round started in their rookie year?


No one is saying its a good %, but just because it might be a low %, the thought should be completely dismissed or foregone? What if there was a definitely OL hole in the OL and 1 was drafted.

For OTs, knowing there is unlikely to be a polished guy sitting there for us, you got to look at traits alone, hope said player builds off of that.

Julien Davenport is an example of that
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