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Darius Latham or Jihard Ward
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SBXISBXVSBXVIII


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 3703
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Guys can improve...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-10-most-improved-second-year-players/?utm_content=bufferecbf3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl


no way bro, if you aint a stud in your first year #bust...I don't care what history has shown us.

Laughing
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

attack_in_s/b wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?


Tough question. Let me define a bad pick imo - A) drafting a guy with an earlier pick than you would need (using your 2nd when he should be available at your 3rd). B) overlooking a clear, concise bpa/top talent for whatever reason.

So no, I don't think it was a bad pick. He wouldn't have been there for our 3rd and jack had already been drafted. With that being said, I didn't (and still don't) really like the pick. Just felt there was 1st round talent that fell, and we went with a 3rd round talent the rose. D. Henry, cravens, d. Jones, Von bell were just a small sample of some options we had that I know a lot of the posters here liked. I'm not calling ward a bust because we all knew he was a project, but there were other guys (not even in hindsight but at the time) that I would have much preferred.


I personally saw Ward as a 4-5th round player. I liked him him but thought it was a reach. If someone else grabbed him in the second I would have been disappointed that he did not last but would have been happy we did not reach for him. Yannick Ngakoue and Sean Davis are other examples of this. I liked them later in the draft. They went earlier than I would have been willing to draft them. Ngakoue ended up being worth it though.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
Calhoun mainly struggled standing. I thought he was ok as a DE and on ST. Had a sack. This next season is huge for both he and Ward. We'll see whether either will take a step forward from a bad year.


You're right. I really think we need to just let him keep his hand in the dirt.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I felt Ward was a reach with both Bama DT's still on the board. I trust Reggie's judgement as the year before we picked Edwards over other DE's I liked and that turned out well for us when he's healthy.
I'm fine with rolling with MJE, Ward and Latham at UT but if a BPA is there with our picks, it wouldn't stop me from making the DT pick.
If Allen slipped to 24 I can't see how we'd pass unless Foster slipped there too. Laughing Both talented, well coached but LB a bigger need IMO.
Personally a NT type to replace Dan and Jelly is needed more and can be found in 4-5th round.

EDIT: If Jets would take our 4th for Richardson, I'd do it even if we don't sign a contract first. Can always franchise or let walk and get comp pick but make big SB push this season. Also think if our D doesn't have success that next season it's a 3-4 so Ward and Edwards are good for that.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
I felt Ward was a reach with both Bama DT's still on the board. I trust Reggie's judgement as the year before we picked Edwards over other DE's I liked and that turned out well for us when he's healthy.
I'm fine with rolling with MJE, Ward and Latham at UT but if a BPA is there with our picks, it wouldn't stop me from making the DT pick.
If Allen slipped to 24 I can't see how we'd pass unless Foster slipped there too. Laughing Both talented, well coached but LB a bigger need IMO.
Personally a NT type to replace Dan and Jelly is needed more and can be found in 4-5th round.

EDIT: If Jets would take our 4th for Richardson, I'd do it even if we don't sign a contract first. Can always franchise or let walk and get comp pick but make big SB push this season. Also think if our D doesn't have success that next season it's a 3-4 so Ward and Edwards are good for that.
Just FYI Mel Kiper had Ward 35th on his big board last year.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latham has shown a lot more to ward at this point of his career.

Look at Mack's 1st sack versus denver. Latham embarrasses the guard with a spin move and would have sacked siemian if Mack didnt' first.

IMO Latham will be better next year.
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raiderrocker18


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latham was mostly average with some flashes of very good... whereas Ward was mostly awful with flashes of average (outside of training camp tweets).

Lets see what happens this year, but my expectations of Latham are much higher. Like i've said a couple times in this thread, if their draft positions were flipped, nobody would have a hopeful or positive impression of Ward...
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Latham has shown a lot more to ward at this point of his career.

Look at Mack's 1st sack versus denver. Latham embarrasses the guard with a spin move and would have sacked siemian if Mack didnt' first.

IMO Latham will be better next year.
I kind of agree, I like Latham, but there is a possibility that if the light comes on for Ward his ceiling could be higher than Latham, I just think it's way to early to write Ward off. Also the hire of John Pagano can make a difference, I believe he can make our players more efficient, just don't believe Norton was very good at X's and O's, and alot of times game planning.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly latham was the better college player but went undrafted because of some off field stuff. So not really a surprise that Latham is playing better at the moment. Latham has more of the attitude you need in the trenches as well. But Ward was always supposed to be raw. Be interesting to see yr1 to yr2. I think both will improve but Latham will still be ahead. Really he just needs to clean up some things and put on some Muscle weight.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
If I remember correctly latham was the better college player but went undrafted because of some off field stuff. So not really a surprise that Latham is playing better at the moment. Latham has more of the attitude you need in the trenches as well. But Ward was always supposed to be raw. Be interesting to see yr1 to yr2. I think both will improve but Latham will still be ahead. Really he just needs to clean up some things and put on some Muscle weight.
Not really Wards 2 years of production was almost equal to Latham's 3 years, but the key is Ward only had 2 years of college ball. Raw like you said.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
G wrote:
I felt Ward was a reach with both Bama DT's still on the board. I trust Reggie's judgement as the year before we picked Edwards over other DE's I liked and that turned out well for us when he's healthy.
I'm fine with rolling with MJE, Ward and Latham at UT but if a BPA is there with our picks, it wouldn't stop me from making the DT pick.
If Allen slipped to 24 I can't see how we'd pass unless Foster slipped there too. Laughing Both talented, well coached but LB a bigger need IMO.
Personally a NT type to replace Dan and Jelly is needed more and can be found in 4-5th round.

EDIT: If Jets would take our 4th for Richardson, I'd do it even if we don't sign a contract first. Can always franchise or let walk and get comp pick but make big SB push this season. Also think if our D doesn't have success that next season it's a 3-4 so Ward and Edwards are good for that.
Just FYI Mel Kiper had Ward 35th on his big board last year.


That's good cause the draft book I had he was 3-4th round. Of course those have to be sent out before pro days so lots can change. Was he above the Bama DT's? No idea as I watch NFLN during draft. I didn't think Robinson would get out of the 1st. Also liked Spriggs and the other T Coleman who went to Browns in the 3rd after our pick if I recall. It's the OCD in me. Laughing
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
G wrote:
I felt Ward was a reach with both Bama DT's still on the board. I trust Reggie's judgement as the year before we picked Edwards over other DE's I liked and that turned out well for us when he's healthy.
I'm fine with rolling with MJE, Ward and Latham at UT but if a BPA is there with our picks, it wouldn't stop me from making the DT pick.
If Allen slipped to 24 I can't see how we'd pass unless Foster slipped there too. Laughing Both talented, well coached but LB a bigger need IMO.
Personally a NT type to replace Dan and Jelly is needed more and can be found in 4-5th round.

EDIT: If Jets would take our 4th for Richardson, I'd do it even if we don't sign a contract first. Can always franchise or let walk and get comp pick but make big SB push this season. Also think if our D doesn't have success that next season it's a 3-4 so Ward and Edwards are good for that.
Just FYI Mel Kiper had Ward 35th on his big board last year.


That's good cause the draft book I had he was 3-4th round. Of course those have to be sent out before pro days so lots can change. Was he above the Bama DT's? No idea as I watch NFLN during draft. I didn't think Robinson would get out of the 1st. Also liked Spriggs and the other T Coleman who went to Browns in the 3rd after our pick if I recall. It's the OCD in me. Laughing
kipper had both Bama Dts higher, but the got passed by several DTs in the actual draft, I think they had bad combines.
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/28/raiders-notes-jack-del-rio-sort-of-addresses-marshawn-lynch-adrian-peterson-rumors/

JDR mentioned Edwards, Ward and Autry here when it came to defensive front improvement. This could just be that Latham is viewed as a full time interior guy along with Williams and Jelly...

Could mean Williams, Jelly and Latham at NT.
With Edwards, Ward, Autry and possibly a rookie at DE in base.

The NT's could play a few snaps also in 4 DL looks, but most of the time the base DE's would play DT in nickel and dime with Mack and Irvin down as DE's.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/28/raiders-notes-jack-del-rio-sort-of-addresses-marshawn-lynch-adrian-peterson-rumors/

JDR mentioned Edwards, Ward and Autry here when it came to defensive front improvement. This could just be that Latham is viewed as a full time interior guy along with Williams and Jelly...

Could mean Williams, Jelly and Latham at NT.
With Edwards, Ward, Autry and possibly a rookie at DE in base.

The NT's could play a few snaps also in 4 DL looks, but most of the time the base DE's would play DT in nickel and dime with Mack and Irvin down as DE's.


I could see us viewing Latham as a NT moving forward but I think that may not make maximum use of his full potential, from what I've seen he's pretty agile and aggressive for a very big man and he's got some decent hand techniques. Without wishing to re-hash the old 3-4 or 4-3 arguments what I'd love to see is a penetrating 34 base D with Edwards / Williams / Latham up front and Mack and Irving rush LBs. I think this would allow Williams to play better by penetrating rather than being a 2 gap kind of player and allow Edwards and Lathan to do what they appear to do best by being aggressive. Behind those guys we'd have Ward, Autry and Ellis to rotate in (and I'd love to draft a guy like Malik McDowell to fit in at end). Ellis is the only one that seems to me to be a better guy at being a space eater rather than a penetrating type.

In the Nickel D then we could shift Edwards and Autry in (or McDowell if we went that route) and rotate Ward and Latham with Irving and Mack at ends or even Aldon and Mack if he ever gets out of purgatory. It's going to be very interesting to see the progressions of a few young players and hopefully Edwards will be healthy which could make a big difference too.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Rolni wrote:
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/28/raiders-notes-jack-del-rio-sort-of-addresses-marshawn-lynch-adrian-peterson-rumors/

JDR mentioned Edwards, Ward and Autry here when it came to defensive front improvement. This could just be that Latham is viewed as a full time interior guy along with Williams and Jelly...

Could mean Williams, Jelly and Latham at NT.
With Edwards, Ward, Autry and possibly a rookie at DE in base.

The NT's could play a few snaps also in 4 DL looks, but most of the time the base DE's would play DT in nickel and dime with Mack and Irvin down as DE's.


I could see us viewing Latham as a NT moving forward but I think that may not make maximum use of his full potential, from what I've seen he's pretty agile and aggressive for a very big man and he's got some decent hand techniques. Without wishing to re-hash the old 3-4 or 4-3 arguments what I'd love to see is a penetrating 34 base D with Edwards / Williams / Latham up front and Mack and Irving rush LBs. I think this would allow Williams to play better by penetrating rather than being a 2 gap kind of player and allow Edwards and Lathan to do what they appear to do best by being aggressive. Behind those guys we'd have Ward, Autry and Ellis to rotate in (and I'd love to draft a guy like Malik McDowell to fit in at end). Ellis is the only one that seems to me to be a better guy at being a space eater rather than a penetrating type.

In the Nickel D then we could shift Edwards and Autry in (or McDowell if we went that route) and rotate Ward and Latham with Irving and Mack at ends or even Aldon and Mack if he ever gets out of purgatory. It's going to be very interesting to see the progressions of a few young players and hopefully Edwards will be healthy which could make a big difference too.

I can also see Latham at DE\DT as you said.

We will see whether Pagano brings in a 1gap system modification or not. As far as I know JDR is a 2 gap guy in the interior in base, but that can change...
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