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Darius Latham or Jihard Ward
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Synyster


Joined: 06 Nov 2009
Posts: 422
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?
I think he will prove to be a good pick, I expect him and Calhoun to take a leap this year.


based off what can you tell me?
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 12301
Location: Lehigh Valley
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synyster wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?
I think he will prove to be a good pick, I expect him and Calhoun to take a leap this year.


based off what can you tell me?


He's a young player who showed great athleticism but below average technique and mental processing. In other words, he's raw and needs experience and continued coaching. But we already knew that.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8495
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Synyster wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?
I think he will prove to be a good pick, I expect him and Calhoun to take a leap this year.


based off what can you tell me?


He's a young player who showed great athleticism but below average technique and mental processing. In other words, he's raw and needs experience and continued coaching. But we already knew that.
And Calhoun was starting to come around before he got hurt.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 12301
Location: Lehigh Valley
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Synyster wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?
I think he will prove to be a good pick, I expect him and Calhoun to take a leap this year.


based off what can you tell me?


He's a young player who showed great athleticism but below average technique and mental processing. In other words, he's raw and needs experience and continued coaching. But we already knew that.
And Calhoun was starting to come around before he got hurt.


Calhoun will be fine. He only got a few plays here and there to spell Irvin or Mack. Hard to get in a rhythm that way as a pass rusher.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys can improve...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-10-most-improved-second-year-players/?utm_content=bufferecbf3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1941
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward should absolutely be given time to develop, and he may well do that. I didn't like the pick because he was very raw, not exceptionally athletic and played with poor leverage and didn't know how to use his hands, was weak at the point of attack. He has great size and decent athleticism however and if it all comes together could be a good player. There's just an awful lot to work on.

Latham really surprised me with his agility and quickness for such a big individual, much better on the field than the numbers suggest. A few posters have said that he's a run stuffer but due to his agility and aggressive edge he could be a useful pass rusher moving forward. He plays with good leverage and hand use already despite being very young and also raw but he seems to hold the point of attack better and just looks to me like a meaner type player who can push the pocket back more effectively at this time.

I expect Latham to be the better player moving forward but would hope both can improve and be starter material.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
We all want instant gratification with draft picks. The Dline rotation is solid with room to grown.

I like Ward, Latham, MEJr, Dan and Jelly as a group. They will develop.


Fans are too hard on Ward. He has all the ability in the world, just has to put it together. Dline takes time and he was thrust into the lineup earlier than they'd liked.


With you on this. Ward and Latham needs time to develope, Mario needs to show he can stay healthy, Autry needs a big year for his next contract just like Ellis and Williams should be motivated after a sluggish performance.

Ee need to add 1 or 2 more young developemental piecesmand let the coaches coach and the players develope
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SilverNBlackFan


Joined: 15 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Synyster wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?
I think he will prove to be a good pick, I expect him and Calhoun to take a leap this year.


based off what can you tell me?


He's a young player who showed great athleticism but below average technique and mental processing. In other words, he's raw and needs experience and continued coaching. But we already knew that.
And Calhoun was starting to come around before he got hurt.


Calhoun will be fine. He only got a few plays here and there to spell Irvin or Mack. Hard to get in a rhythm that way as a pass rusher.


Calhoun was more disappointing than Ward last year, because he was supposed to be way more refined and ready to contribute. We knew Ward would be a project. I at least thought Calhoun could help us out as a 3rd rusher, which we were desperate for with Aldon gone but he failed miserably. Fringe roster guys like Cowser was more impressive.

Calhoun flat out sucked. And I wouldn't be shocked if his career is a short one.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1941
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
We all want instant gratification with draft picks. The Dline rotation is solid with room to grown.

I like Ward, Latham, MEJr, Dan and Jelly as a group. They will develop.


Fans are too hard on Ward. He has all the ability in the world, just has to put it together. Dline takes time and he was thrust into the lineup earlier than they'd liked.


With you on this. Ward and Latham needs time to develope, Mario needs to show he can stay healthy, Autry needs a big year for his next contract just like Ellis and Williams should be motivated after a sluggish performance.

Ee need to add 1 or 2 more young developemental piecesmand let the coaches coach and the players develope


It's always good to have a few developmental players behind the front line starters on the roster but i think a big change has occurred to the organisation over the last season. We've moved on from the stage of trying to get competitive again after years of irrelevance to become (IMO) actual Superbowl contenders, if Carr had stayed healthy the only team I would have been nervous about facing would have been the Pats. and they showed they are quite beatable.

I think our roster has already a few developmental players on it such as Ward, Latham, Calhoun, McDonald, James, Alexander, Cowser and so on. What I feel we really need now are a small number of impact players to take us over the top and help us win a Superbowl:

A penetrating DT to make Mack, Edwards and Irving's life easier, provided one of Latham, Ellis and Williams makes the other DT spot secure at least.

A long term starter at ILB/MLB to marshall the defence, Riley was ok but really should be a good depth player.

A safety to compliment Joseph - and I say compliment as I'm not sure where we'll be playing him primarily - I would probably use him as the Charles Woodson role and look for a bigger safety to help cover TEs and play closer to the LoS as they are generally easier to find than the playmaker I think Joseph could be.

A more reliable TE option to act as a safety valve for Carr, though I think maybe we have that in Cook.

A complimentary RB to go alongside Richard, Washington and Olawale.

An above average RT/the LT to groom behind Penn.

I don't expect us to fill all these areas with exceptional players, every roster has a few lean spots but if we can maybe fill 3 of these area with big impact players, I'm thinking specifically our 1st and 2nd round picks plus a FA then we'll be genuine Superbowl contenders with developmental guys at the other areas for next season and beyond.
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SBXISBXVSBXVIII


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?

Hindsight yes based on who was available after him and how they performed their rookie season. However, I'm not going to write him off at this point after a rookie season where he was put in a position he wasn't ready for. He was a project pick who shouldn't have played as much as he did. Obviously just my opinion though.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Rolni wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
We all want instant gratification with draft picks. The Dline rotation is solid with room to grown.

I like Ward, Latham, MEJr, Dan and Jelly as a group. They will develop.


Fans are too hard on Ward. He has all the ability in the world, just has to put it together. Dline takes time and he was thrust into the lineup earlier than they'd liked.


With you on this. Ward and Latham needs time to develope, Mario needs to show he can stay healthy, Autry needs a big year for his next contract just like Ellis and Williams should be motivated after a sluggish performance.

Ee need to add 1 or 2 more young developemental piecesmand let the coaches coach and the players develope


It's always good to have a few developmental players behind the front line starters on the roster but i think a big change has occurred to the organisation over the last season. We've moved on from the stage of trying to get competitive again after years of irrelevance to become (IMO) actual Superbowl contenders, if Carr had stayed healthy the only team I would have been nervous about facing would have been the Pats. and they showed they are quite beatable.

I think our roster has already a few developmental players on it such as Ward, Latham, Calhoun, McDonald, James, Alexander, Cowser and so on. What I feel we really need now are a small number of impact players to take us over the top and help us win a Superbowl:

A penetrating DT to make Mack, Edwards and Irving's life easier, provided one of Latham, Ellis and Williams makes the other DT spot secure at least.

A long term starter at ILB/MLB to marshall the defence, Riley was ok but really should be a good depth player.

A safety to compliment Joseph - and I say compliment as I'm not sure where we'll be playing him primarily - I would probably use him as the Charles Woodson role and look for a bigger safety to help cover TEs and play closer to the LoS as they are generally easier to find than the playmaker I think Joseph could be.

A more reliable TE option to act as a safety valve for Carr, though I think maybe we have that in Cook.

A complimentary RB to go alongside Richard, Washington and Olawale.

An above average RT/the LT to groom behind Penn.

I don't expect us to fill all these areas with exceptional players, every roster has a few lean spots but if we can maybe fill 3 of these area with big impact players, I'm thinking specifically our 1st and 2nd round picks plus a FA then we'll be genuine Superbowl contenders with developmental guys at the other areas for next season and beyond.

I think you are right. We need impact players now to compete with the best, but they guys were developement guys last year should step in as impact guys at least to a certain level and we always need to add more developement guys behind them. This is the ideal process, where you only need to give your star players big money and can effectively rotate, refresh the team around them.

Ideally Mario, Ward and Latham should step forward and play good football for us, while we bring in some depth behind them and behind the NT's.

S and LB is different since we are really thin there, but CB should be similar. Let Sean, David and TJ do their work and bring in depth behind them. If one or more young guns are ready to take over sooner it is a great thing, but we ideally shouldn't rush any rookie in action like we needed to do with Jihad or Cory last year.

I think our TE group is ready to roll.

We definately need another RB.

I think we are set at OL and I can only see an OT pick if there is a clear BPA choice.

I think with Seth and CP we can pass on WR's too, unless there is a great choice.

With that said I think we can and should go almost full D with the draft. LB is a priority for me even if we bring back Perry. S is another must IMO. Nelson can start the year, but ideally sooner then later we should see our S tandem of the future. CB is a need with Carrie going to be an UFA and both Smith and Amerson playing below their "contract level" in 2016. If they continue to struggle they should be gone after this year, so we need bodies at CB. DL is a position of relative need to me. We have young guys, high draft picks there, so we need to give them time and chance to develope and step forward. It was not a mistake RM and Co. took Edwards and Ward that early. They targeted starters there and they have to see it through IMO.
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attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?


Tough question. Let me define a bad pick imo - A) drafting a guy with an earlier pick than you would need (using your 2nd when he should be available at your 3rd). B) overlooking a clear, concise bpa/top talent for whatever reason.

So no, I don't think it was a bad pick. He wouldn't have been there for our 3rd and jack had already been drafted. With that being said, I didn't (and still don't) really like the pick. Just felt there was 1st round talent that fell, and we went with a 3rd round talent the rose. D. Henry, cravens, d. Jones, Von bell were just a small sample of some options we had that I know a lot of the posters here liked. I'm not calling ward a bust because we all knew he was a project, but there were other guys (not even in hindsight but at the time) that I would have much preferred.
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Darius Latham or Jihard Ward Reply with quote

DC4_Life wrote:
Do you guys think they can man up and hold down the DT/UT spot? I like Latham more based on 2016.. he is the athlete, size, played all 16 at the age of 21, flashed potential. Ward was drafted high and didn't do much. However, he did play out of position filling in for Edwards at base. I'm not willing to write the young man off, but playing him at his natural position would help him. What are your thoughts on these two? Should we draft another DT high?? I'm a big fan of Latham, and think he can be a better version of Tommy Kelly. [/i]

I like Latham as a rotational guy but possibly better than TK ? thats a pretty big stretch
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilverNBlackFan wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Synyster wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Synyster wrote:
SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
Synyster wrote:
i think ward was over drafted sure he's got impressive size but i don't see 2nd round material in him he'll be a rotational type player. he's not an effective 43 ut plays too high and does not have the twitch or bend to be a starting end. he's a better 5tech imo

that's not being 'too hard' on the guy it's me calling it as is. there is still time but we'll see

That's not being hard on the guy at all. The ones that are being hard on him have already considered him a bust. Which is ridiculous after a rookie season.


do you think ward was a good pick?
I think he will prove to be a good pick, I expect him and Calhoun to take a leap this year.


based off what can you tell me?


He's a young player who showed great athleticism but below average technique and mental processing. In other words, he's raw and needs experience and continued coaching. But we already knew that.
And Calhoun was starting to come around before he got hurt.


Calhoun will be fine. He only got a few plays here and there to spell Irvin or Mack. Hard to get in a rhythm that way as a pass rusher.


Calhoun was more disappointing than Ward last year, because he was supposed to be way more refined and ready to contribute. We knew Ward would be a project. I at least thought Calhoun could help us out as a 3rd rusher, which we were desperate for with Aldon gone but he failed miserably. Fringe roster guys like Cowser was more impressive.

Calhoun flat out sucked. And I wouldn't be shocked if his career is a short one.


Calhoun mainly struggled standing. I thought he was ok as a DE and on ST. Had a sack. This next season is huge for both he and Ward. We'll see whether either will take a step forward from a bad year.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Guys can improve...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-10-most-improved-second-year-players/?utm_content=bufferecbf3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl


no way bro, if you aint a stud in your first year #bust...I don't care what history has shown us.
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