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WR Laquon Treadwell: Year2
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Dolmonite26


Joined: 05 Jan 2014
Posts: 1879
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The conversation about Treadwell athleticism and about there being a lack of precedent for players of similar athleticism having success prompted my curiosity.

So I decided to look at some of the top recievers in the league and compile an aggregate score of their testing numbers and get an average from it. This helps account for how well they did relative to there weight and gives a more complete picture of them as a athlete.

It's somewhat rudimentary and has the fault of weighting all of the test against the player. So for example, OBJ's score went from 68% to 74% when his 2 percentile bench press was removed. But for now all numbers are taken at face value and weighed the same against these receivers.

Hopkins- 49.4
Treadwell - 45.8
Brown - 30
Beckham- 68.1
Boldin- 24.1
Julio Jones- 83.7
Hilton- 39.08
Cooper - 59.3
Robinson- 65.18
Evans- 58.72
M. Thomas- 63.7
Jefferys- 64.27

I could keep going but I am a little short on time, might update later. Also I threw Boldin in because I believe he is an interesting case study.

Regardless, we can see that a wide range of outcomes exist for successful recievers and there seems to be almost no correlation for athleticism and meaningful production. We can't accurately conclude that at the moment, given lack of data, but it seems to be a legitimate theory with some merit based on this small sample size.

Anyway food for thought I guess, and yes I know that there are plenty of big timers missing right now lol.
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gopherwrestler


Joined: 20 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is something to chill everyone on the Treadwell not doing well in his first season. These are some names of players with top 3 round pedigree that didn't breakout until YR3 or later (since 05).

If he can turn out as well as some of these guys I would be happy.

Via Russel Clay on Twitter


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Dolmonite26


Joined: 05 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But...but...GW, he's practically a beer league level athlete, no one has ever been good in the NFL with similar measurables.
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Biggs Beefcakes


Joined: 14 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopherwrestler wrote:
Here is something to chill everyone on the Treadwell not doing well in his first season. These are some names of players with top 3 round pedigree that didn't breakout until YR3 or later (since 05).

If he can turn out as well as some of these guys I would be happy.

Via Russel Clay on Twitter



Those are the guys that started slow and eventually (kinda) turned into good players. What about the list of guys that didn't do anything in their rookie year and never turned it around? I'd venture to bet that's a long list too.

Athleticism markers or not, Treadwell did nothing last year. So this is a big year for him. People can't make excuses for him this season so he's got to show up. I'd still build my team expecting nothing from him so that if he doesn't have it in him we aren't disappointed.
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gopherwrestler


Joined: 20 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggs Beefcakes wrote:
Athleticism markers or not, Treadwell did nothing last year. So this is a big year for him. People can't make excuses for him this season so he's got to show up. I'd still build my team expecting nothing from him so that if he doesn't have it in him we aren't disappointed.


Hard to do much when you are hurt for most of the year.
I'll make an excuse for him again if he takes a bad shot and tears something up.
If healthy and can't find any success, then yes, you can start putting up questions. Kid is only 21 years old.
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
I think everyone needs to settle down with the definitive statements.

Nobody can say Treadwell is going to be a bust or is going to be great or is going to be better than a certain other player.

It is great to discuss the reasons why you think that, but nobody knows the future, and leaving no room for ambiguity is silly.


Good point, Heimdallr. Even Cris Carter said the same thing. He has actually been working out with Treadwell, and he also knows far more about what it takes to be an NFL receiver than any of us do, and he said the jury is still out. We will have to just keep our fingers crossed and wait and see how he progresses.
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swiss_vike


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm optimistic by the simple fact that we'll have a new WR coach.

I was always a hard critique of Stewart. And I'm very very happy that he's no longer our WR coach. It can only get better.
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swiss_vike wrote:
I'm optimistic by the simple fact that we'll have a new WR coach.

I was always a hard critique of Stewart. And I'm very very happy that he's no longer our WR coach. It can only get better.


I don't really understand that, considering they had 2 receivers get nearly 1000 yds a piece last season...and they were a 5th rounder and a UDFA.

You aren't the only one that was hard on Stewart, and I've never understood what people expected out of a position coach. He did what he was supposed to do and did it well. You can't expect him to polish a turd, which is largely the talent he was provided. The fact that Cordarrelle didn't blossom into a superstar WR is on Cordarrelle, not Stewart. Stewart can't make the player work OT catching balls, running routes and grasp the playbook. That's Cordarrelle's responsibility to do it.
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JDBrocks


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
swiss_vike wrote:
I'm optimistic by the simple fact that we'll have a new WR coach.

I was always a hard critique of Stewart. And I'm very very happy that he's no longer our WR coach. It can only get better.


I don't really understand that, considering they had 2 receivers get nearly 1000 yds a piece last season...and they were a 5th rounder and a UDFA.

You aren't the only one that was hard on Stewart, and I've never understood what people expected out of a position coach. He did what he was supposed to do and did it well. You can't expect him to polish a turd, which is largely the talent he was provided. The fact that Cordarrelle didn't blossom into a superstar WR is on Cordarrelle, not Stewart. Stewart can't make the player work OT catching balls, running routes and grasp the playbook. That's Cordarrelle's responsibility to do it.


For many years we saw receivers run pretty terrible boundary routes. I think that has a lot to do with coaching. Guys would run vertically too close to the sideline and not leave enough space for the QB to make a good throw. That was always my main gripe with Stewart.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
vikings209 wrote:
Cris Carter had a horrible rookie season too (5 rec for 38 yds) and he went on to be one of the best of all time. There's plenty of time for Treadwell to turn it around.


Not the best example, considering all the "extracurricular activities" he was involved in.

Anyway, I think people are way too quick to judge nowadays. They think if they aren't starting and producing right away, they're garbage. What we should expect from Laquon is progress. We should see him contributing this year...if he can contribute the same amount of catches as Cordarrelle did last year, that's fine. Anything more than that, that's gravy.


Why, when rookies are starting all over hte league, is this good? I don't understand your low expectations. Help me understand.
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
disaacs wrote:
vikings209 wrote:
Cris Carter had a horrible rookie season too (5 rec for 38 yds) and he went on to be one of the best of all time. There's plenty of time for Treadwell to turn it around.


Not the best example, considering all the "extracurricular activities" he was involved in.

Anyway, I think people are way too quick to judge nowadays. They think if they aren't starting and producing right away, they're garbage. What we should expect from Laquon is progress. We should see him contributing this year...if he can contribute the same amount of catches as Cordarrelle did last year, that's fine. Anything more than that, that's gravy.


Why, when rookies are starting all over hte league, is this good? I don't understand your low expectations. Help me understand.


Because, he isn't the type of receiver that was ever supposed to come into the league and put up 1,500 yards as a rookie anyway.

Rookies contribute, 100% correct. Treadwell probably would have put up a little more numbers if he was healthy. It didn't help we had Thielen who is a great receiver for us blow up last year. 2 years ago we got a receiver that can get those YAC yards in Diggs, we expected him to have a huge season. He is a guy that can put up those big numbers because of his YAC, something you see with OBJ and Brown.

Treadwell was a 1st round pick because he can body up people with his size, he is a possession receiver, something you see out of Boldin. Someone who will catch those passes while being defended, catch the balls in the redzone. While battling lower body injuries these are the types of receivers, something Treadwell went thru.

I just don't see how people don't realize his lower body injuries are what kept him from doing anything. It started in training camp, he lost practice time and it lingered all year. Tried pushing thru hurt it leads to more injuries, which happened. This offseason he has time to recover. Next year I expect him to get more playing time. See those redzone targets, let him out there and maybe see some nice blocks from him. The guy is a monster on inside routes. He really is a great route runner, if you watched anything of him in college you saw that. The guys game was never speed, but when you are fighting injuries with the lower body that kills these types of guys even more.

Settle down, buckle in, lets see what this kid can do next year. To the ones saying they would never build a team around a WR.....what team would ever do that? What team has ever done that other than the Raiders maybe trying to do that with Moss. Didn't work out so well.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopherwrestler wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
disaacs wrote:
vikings209 wrote:
Cris Carter had a horrible rookie season too (5 rec for 38 yds) and he went on to be one of the best of all time. There's plenty of time for Treadwell to turn it around.


Not the best example, considering all the "extracurricular activities" he was involved in.

Anyway, I think people are way too quick to judge nowadays. They think if they aren't starting and producing right away, they're garbage. What we should expect from Laquon is progress. We should see him contributing this year...if he can contribute the same amount of catches as Cordarrelle did last year, that's fine. Anything more than that, that's gravy.


Why, when rookies are starting all over hte league, is this good? I don't understand your low expectations. Help me understand.


Because, he isn't the type of receiver that was ever supposed to come into the league and put up 1,500 yards as a rookie anyway.

Rookies contribute, 100% correct. Treadwell probably would have put up a little more numbers if he was healthy. It didn't help we had Thielen who is a great receiver for us blow up last year. 2 years ago we got a receiver that can get those YAC yards in Diggs, we expected him to have a huge season. He is a guy that can put up those big numbers because of his YAC, something you see with OBJ and Brown.

Treadwell was a 1st round pick because he can body up people with his size, he is a possession receiver, something you see out of Boldin. Someone who will catch those passes while being defended, catch the balls in the redzone. While battling lower body injuries these are the types of receivers, something Treadwell went thru.

I just don't see how people don't realize his lower body injuries are what kept him from doing anything. It started in training camp, he lost practice time and it lingered all year. Tried pushing thru hurt it leads to more injuries, which happened. This offseason he has time to recover. Next year I expect him to get more playing time. See those redzone targets, let him out there and maybe see some nice blocks from him. The guy is a monster on inside routes. He really is a great route runner, if you watched anything of him in college you saw that. The guys game was never speed, but when you are fighting injuries with the lower body that kills these types of guys even more.

Settle down, buckle in, lets see what this kid can do next year. To the ones saying they would never build a team around a WR.....what team would ever do that? What team has ever done that other than the Raiders maybe trying to do that with Moss. Didn't work out so well.


1500 yards? Nice straw man. how about 10 catches? Or 30-50? From a first round pick?
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JDBrocks


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you missed his point. He was injured, and it impacted his ability to get on the field. Combine that with this coaching staff's proclivity to sit rookies, and you have what happened last year. I don't think anyone is suggesting that he shouldn't have produced last year, but you do have to consider the circumstances, and separate that from what you would expect from a healthy first round pick on a different team.
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:

1500 yards? Nice straw man. how about 10 catches? Or 30-50? From a first round pick?


I meant it as an example for all of his future. Too many people had those expectations.

He was active in 9 games. 5 of those games where coming off where he was injured during the week. In one of these he had his catch, while still being injured. 3 games he didn't play at all. Sat on the bench, no special teams. Most likely because he wasn't ready. He really wasn't after missing time at the beginning of the year. His one game he was actually "healthy" and practiced all week, he reinjured himself again on a specials teams play where he actually made the tackle.

He probably should have not been active for the most part for most of the year but he was "more healthy" than some of the others on the team when he was playing. His playing time happened during Diggs and Johnsons injuries.

How much would we have had this conversation if we just would have put him on the IR. The same injury he never got to recover from throughout his last year of college, the draft offseason because he wanted to try and perform, all of rookie mini camp, all of training camp, and then had to try and fight it during the season playing against the best of the best.

This is the first year since he dislocated his ankle he has had an offseason to just try and recover. Lets see how this recovery process goes. Like I said most of us would be almost excited for the kid this year if we would of just had him on the IR allowing him to recover all year.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
I think you missed his point. He was injured, and it impacted his ability to get on the field. Combine that with this coaching staff's proclivity to sit rookies, and you have what happened last year. I don't think anyone is suggesting that he shouldn't have produced last year, but you do have to consider the circumstances, and separate that from what you would expect from a healthy first round pick on a different team.


Fair, if he was so hurt he couldn't manage 5 catches on the year, maybe he should have been on the DL or something....
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