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Vikings Sign RB Latavius Murray
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Agreed, McKinnon is best at under 100 carries per year. Murray should get the bulk of the carries and remain on the field on third down but McKinnon will still be a factor in the running game. Mn should look to the draft for a third RB but I don't expect that player to be much of a factor this year.


I think this move will work out great for you guys if you get a stable of backs like you and Heimdallr are alluding to doing.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Pretty much this. I think minnesota will draft a back who will supplant murray this year imo.

He didn't even get an offer from our GM after the season.
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Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murray was signed as a stop-gap for a rookie that the Vikings will draft early, and signed as a replacement for Matt Asiata. Nothing more.
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.

Wouldn't class Raiders O-Line as great in run blocking just good, but fair to say 4.5 was a very high end estimate for him.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Once again we have to look beyond the stats and numbers - Murray took the vast majority of goal line snaps and short yardage snaps last year which significantly lowered his YPC. Also, the OL pass blocking was superb but the run blocking had one or two great games but also let Murray get hit a lot in the backfield - especially when he was taking handoffs out of shotgun. The OL was good last year but it was nowhere near the Cowboys standard from a run blocking perspective.

If Murray has a balanced workload with the Vikings they should expect around 4 to 4.5 YPC I would think, though again, if they run him out of the shotgun that wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing Murray for the Vikings and wish him all the best like the majority of Raider Nation Smile
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Once again we have to look beyond the stats and numbers - Murray took the vast majority of goal line snaps and short yardage snaps last year which significantly lowered his YPC. Also, the OL pass blocking was superb but the run blocking had one or two great games but also let Murray get hit a lot in the backfield - especially when he was taking handoffs out of shotgun. The OL was good last year but it was nowhere near the Cowboys standard from a run blocking perspective.

If Murray has a balanced workload with the Vikings they should expect around 4 to 4.5 YPC I would think, though again, if they run him out of the shotgun that wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing Murray for the Vikings and wish him all the best like the majority of Raider Nation Smile


Oakland had a pretty damn good OL for run blocking. Our point is if he was significantly out produced in yards per carry and missed tackles by rookie runners, how will he produce with an inferior OL and in shotgun with Minnesota?

I actually like the Vikings so when I say they're better off without him a year from now, it'll be because I don't want to see them mediocre.
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El ramster wrote:
bertuzzi wrote:
Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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KManX89


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:
Murray was signed as a stop-gap for a rookie that the Vikings will draft early, and signed as a replacement for Matt Asiata. Nothing more.


He might've demanded a wee bit too much money for a backup RB, though.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KManX89 wrote:
SemperFeist wrote:
Murray was signed as a stop-gap for a rookie that the Vikings will draft early, and signed as a replacement for Matt Asiata. Nothing more.


He might've demanded a wee bit too much money for a backup RB, though.


Time will tell when that rookie is drafted early. It may not be until 2018 realistically. Murray and McKinnon is probably good enough for a year, the Vikes could still use some OL help (RG and OT) with their early picks and have a couple of needs on defense that could be addressed early (UT and LB).

I think Murray was paid to be the primary back this year but he will undoubtedly share carries with McKinnon.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
SemperFeist wrote:
Murray was signed as a stop-gap for a rookie that the Vikings will draft early, and signed as a replacement for Matt Asiata. Nothing more.


He might've demanded a wee bit too much money for a backup RB, though.


Time will tell when that rookie is drafted early. It may not be until 2018 realistically. Murray and McKinnon is probably good enough for a year, the Vikes could still use some OL help (RG and OT) with their early picks and have a couple of needs on defense that could be addressed early (UT and LB).

I think Murray was paid to be the primary back this year but he will undoubtedly share carries with McKinnon.
Can't this turn into a 1 year deal as well? You can't really overpay on a 1 year deal IMO, especially for a guy that may very well put up decent starter numbers regardless of whether or not they draft someone this year.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dead cap hit of 1.2 million if released in 2018. Most of the guarantees hit in 2017, when he's expected to start. His salary isn't bad, even in year two.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Once again we have to look beyond the stats and numbers - Murray took the vast majority of goal line snaps and short yardage snaps last year which significantly lowered his YPC. Also, the OL pass blocking was superb but the run blocking had one or two great games but also let Murray get hit a lot in the backfield - especially when he was taking handoffs out of shotgun. The OL was good last year but it was nowhere near the Cowboys standard from a run blocking perspective.

If Murray has a balanced workload with the Vikings they should expect around 4 to 4.5 YPC I would think, though again, if they run him out of the shotgun that wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing Murray for the Vikings and wish him all the best like the majority of Raider Nation Smile


Oakland had a pretty damn good OL for run blocking. Our point is if he was significantly out produced in yards per carry and missed tackles by rookie runners, how will he produce with an inferior OL and in shotgun with Minnesota?

I actually like the Vikings so when I say they're better off without him a year from now, it'll be because I don't want to see them mediocre.


It's called context. Richard and Washington were complimentary backs to Murray - and as has been clearly seen over the last year they weren't taking many short yardage carries against stacked fronts or goal line fronts like Murray was so their numbers should be necessarily better. I really like Richard, and like Washington too but to compare their numbers to Murray's is like comparing apples to oranges. Why not compare numbers when Richard and Washington had to start and take all the carries? If we do this they were less productive than Murray, on this occasion you have confirmation bias unfortunately.

All 3 are good backs and the Raiders will be just fine but the Vikings will be fine with Murray if they use him well too.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Once again we have to look beyond the stats and numbers - Murray took the vast majority of goal line snaps and short yardage snaps last year which significantly lowered his YPC. Also, the OL pass blocking was superb but the run blocking had one or two great games but also let Murray get hit a lot in the backfield - especially when he was taking handoffs out of shotgun. The OL was good last year but it was nowhere near the Cowboys standard from a run blocking perspective.

If Murray has a balanced workload with the Vikings they should expect around 4 to 4.5 YPC I would think, though again, if they run him out of the shotgun that wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing Murray for the Vikings and wish him all the best like the majority of Raider Nation Smile


Oakland had a pretty damn good OL for run blocking. Our point is if he was significantly out produced in yards per carry and missed tackles by rookie runners, how will he produce with an inferior OL and in shotgun with Minnesota?

I actually like the Vikings so when I say they're better off without him a year from now, it'll be because I don't want to see them mediocre.


It's called context. Richard and Washington were complimentary backs to Murray - and as has been clearly seen over the last year they weren't taking many short yardage carries against stacked fronts or goal line fronts like Murray was so their numbers should be necessarily better. I really like Richard, and like Washington too but to compare their numbers to Murray's is like comparing apples to oranges. Why not compare numbers when Richard and Washington had to start and take all the carries? If we do this they were less productive than Murray, on this occasion you have confirmation bias unfortunately.

All 3 are good backs and the Raiders will be just fine but the Vikings will be fine with Murray if they use him well too.


You're so far off man Laughing . Murray missed 2 games. 2 games versus 14 is a huge difference and two of those games were against the chiefs and chargers, and we barely ran against KC.

Richard and Washington didn't start enough games for me to compare. I'm going off of literally watching every snap this season over and over and compare the lanes they had to run and what they did with them, as well as contributions in the pass game. That's very fair of me to compare in that way.

I'm well aware of the context. I'm also not talking about the missed goal line carries. Murray didn't make the most of his opportunities. It is very subjective of me to say so, but IMO he really wasn't a threat in space and a dynamic player, whereas the other two showed flashes of it to say the very least.
For one, Richard had 70% of Murray's production in terms of yardage on far fewer snaps.

Why do you think our front office didn't offer him a contract? A CONTRACT. They didn't want him back.



His next in line can do a lot of stuff like this. Richard is the definition of dynamic. Washington aint bad either and is a very tough runner.




To say that Murray faced significantly more stacked fronts is unsubstantiated and ludicrous. Only in short yardage and GL situations, but he wasn't great in non GL situations either.

He also had a worse yards per carry under center than in the shotgun so there goes that myth. 3.8 YPC under center and 4.2 YPC in shotgun.

And you've completely skirted around my main point, which is that considering minnesota runs just as much shotgun as we do, there's a very small chance he'll perform "fine" considering that he performed "fine" behind our line, but there's a significant drop off in talent, which everyone has acknowledged.
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El ramster wrote:
bertuzzi wrote:
Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Once again we have to look beyond the stats and numbers - Murray took the vast majority of goal line snaps and short yardage snaps last year which significantly lowered his YPC. Also, the OL pass blocking was superb but the run blocking had one or two great games but also let Murray get hit a lot in the backfield - especially when he was taking handoffs out of shotgun. The OL was good last year but it was nowhere near the Cowboys standard from a run blocking perspective.

If Murray has a balanced workload with the Vikings they should expect around 4 to 4.5 YPC I would think, though again, if they run him out of the shotgun that wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing Murray for the Vikings and wish him all the best like the majority of Raider Nation Smile


Oakland had a pretty damn good OL for run blocking. Our point is if he was significantly out produced in yards per carry and missed tackles by rookie runners, how will he produce with an inferior OL and in shotgun with Minnesota?

I actually like the Vikings so when I say they're better off without him a year from now, it'll be because I don't want to see them mediocre.


It's called context. Richard and Washington were complimentary backs to Murray - and as has been clearly seen over the last year they weren't taking many short yardage carries against stacked fronts or goal line fronts like Murray was so their numbers should be necessarily better. I really like Richard, and like Washington too but to compare their numbers to Murray's is like comparing apples to oranges. Why not compare numbers when Richard and Washington had to start and take all the carries? If we do this they were less productive than Murray, on this occasion you have confirmation bias unfortunately.

All 3 are good backs and the Raiders will be just fine but the Vikings will be fine with Murray if they use him well too.


You're so far off man Laughing . Murray missed 2 games. 2 games versus 14 is a huge difference and two of those games were against the chiefs and chargers, and we barely ran against KC.


You can post all the gifs you want, you still have to compare like with like.

Murray will be fine IF THEY USE HIM WELL, which was my point. Cherry picking stats is fine, but we saw a distinct difference when Murray wasn't starting - it's only two games, but it's the only two games we have to go off these guys in a direct comparison. Murray clearly faced many more stacked fronts and especially at the goal line - to say otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and let next season be our judge eh? Smile

As I said, Oakland will be fine and the Vikes and Murray will be fine.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
91jmay wrote:
If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.


I see no reason to expect those numbers. He had a great line last year and hit just 4.0 YPC. Had 4.0YPC last year as well. 5.2 in 2014, but only had 82 carries that year.


Once again we have to look beyond the stats and numbers - Murray took the vast majority of goal line snaps and short yardage snaps last year which significantly lowered his YPC. Also, the OL pass blocking was superb but the run blocking had one or two great games but also let Murray get hit a lot in the backfield - especially when he was taking handoffs out of shotgun. The OL was good last year but it was nowhere near the Cowboys standard from a run blocking perspective.

If Murray has a balanced workload with the Vikings they should expect around 4 to 4.5 YPC I would think, though again, if they run him out of the shotgun that wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing Murray for the Vikings and wish him all the best like the majority of Raider Nation Smile


Oakland had a pretty damn good OL for run blocking. Our point is if he was significantly out produced in yards per carry and missed tackles by rookie runners, how will he produce with an inferior OL and in shotgun with Minnesota?

I actually like the Vikings so when I say they're better off without him a year from now, it'll be because I don't want to see them mediocre.


It's called context. Richard and Washington were complimentary backs to Murray - and as has been clearly seen over the last year they weren't taking many short yardage carries against stacked fronts or goal line fronts like Murray was so their numbers should be necessarily better. I really like Richard, and like Washington too but to compare their numbers to Murray's is like comparing apples to oranges. Why not compare numbers when Richard and Washington had to start and take all the carries? If we do this they were less productive than Murray, on this occasion you have confirmation bias unfortunately.

All 3 are good backs and the Raiders will be just fine but the Vikings will be fine with Murray if they use him well too.


You're so far off man Laughing . Murray missed 2 games. 2 games versus 14 is a huge difference and two of those games were against the chiefs and chargers, and we barely ran against KC.


You can post all the gifs you want, you still have to compare like with like.

Murray will be fine IF THEY USE HIM WELL, which was my point. Cherry picking stats is fine, but we saw a distinct difference when Murray wasn't starting - it's only two games, but it's the only two games we have to go off these guys in a direct comparison. Murray clearly faced many more stacked fronts and especially at the goal line - to say otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and let next season be our judge eh? Smile

As I said, Oakland will be fine and the Vikes and Murray will be fine.


I mean yeah, I can understand your stance. But Washington and Richard didn't even get enough carries in those 2 games for it to be a legit comparison. If they got like 30 carries total in both those games, I'd be far more inclined to agree.
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El ramster wrote:
bertuzzi wrote:
Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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