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Vikings Sign RB Latavius Murray
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2454
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
What are people talking about?

Carr > Bradford
Mack > Barr
OAK OL > MIN OL
Cooper > Diggs
Patterson > Murray

Hopefully that covers things


What is the point of this?

Xavier Rhodes >>David Amerson/Sean Smith
Harrison Smith>>Reggie Nelson
Linval Joseph>>Dan Williams
Eric Kendricks>>Ben Heeney
Danielle Hunter>>Mario Edwards


Ben Heeney is a starter?

Either way, you called him out for being pointless and you wasted time doing the same thing. I can continue and compare the OL, pick and choose certain players that favor the Raiders and so forth but does it really matter?


My point was obviously that I could also find several positions were the Vikings were much better than the Raiders as well, so it was a response to him randomly cherry picking positions that favored the Raiders.

Also since we are already way off topic. Enlighten me who is the Raiders starting MLB? Either way it doesn't matter they don't have a MLB better than Kendricks
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 12314
Location: Lehigh Valley
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
What are people talking about?

Carr > Bradford
Mack > Barr
OAK OL > MIN OL
Cooper > Diggs
Patterson > Murray

Hopefully that covers things


What is the point of this?

Xavier Rhodes >>David Amerson/Sean Smith
Harrison Smith>>Reggie Nelson
Linval Joseph>>Dan Williams
Eric Kendricks>>Ben Heeney
Danielle Hunter>>Mario Edwards


Ben Heeney is a starter?

Either way, you called him out for being pointless and you wasted time doing the same thing. I can continue and compare the OL, pick and choose certain players that favor the Raiders and so forth but does it really matter?


My point was obviously that I could also find several positions were the Vikings were much better than the Raiders as well, so it was a response to him randomly cherry picking positions that favored the Raiders.

Also since we are already way off topic. Enlighten me who is the Raiders starting MLB? Either way it doesn't matter they don't have a MLB better than Kendricks

Cory James, Perry Riley, Zach Brown or Draft pick. Either way, you are correct. Kendricks is a beast
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RoyalMajesty51o


Joined: 26 Dec 2015
Posts: 843
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikeManDan wrote:
TENINCH wrote:
Patterson had 4 or 5 kick return touchdowns in his Vikings career.


FTFY

I think CP will be just fine in Oakland. Is he in line to battle for WR3 behind Cooper and Crabtree or is there someone in that role already?


It's wide open. WR-Seth Roberts continues to have his drops and WR-Johnny Holton was used pretty much only on reverses last season. Unless we can draft a guy like WR-Ryan Switzer who would be a good slot WR and a electrifying PR, the #3 WR position could be up to Patterson.
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Silver&Black88


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Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 41513
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
What are people talking about?

Carr > Bradford
Mack > Barr
OAK OL > MIN OL
Cooper > Diggs
Patterson > Murray

Hopefully that covers things


What is the point of this?

Xavier Rhodes >>David Amerson/Sean Smith
Harrison Smith>>Reggie Nelson
Linval Joseph>>Dan Williams
Eric Kendricks>>Ben Heeney
Danielle Hunter>>Mario Edwards


Ben Heeney is a starter?

Either way, you called him out for being pointless and you wasted time doing the same thing. I can continue and compare the OL, pick and choose certain players that favor the Raiders and so forth but does it really matter?


My point was obviously that I could also find several positions were the Vikings were much better than the Raiders as well, so it was a response to him randomly cherry picking positions that favored the Raiders.

Also since we are already way off topic. Enlighten me who is the Raiders starting MLB? Either way it doesn't matter they don't have a MLB better than Kendricks

Cory James, Perry Riley, Zach Brown or Draft pick. Either way, you are correct. Kendricks is a beast


Really wanted Kendricks that year. When you factor in the amount of time Edwards has lost, and how bad we've been at ILB, it makes you think. Happy with MEJ though.
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 29940
Location: Wonderland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopherwrestler wrote:
How does one adjust Mack vs Barr? they literally play 2 different positions?
I mean yes, Mack is better.. but Barr doesn't do the pass rushing Mack does.
It would probably be more comparable going Hunter and Mack, which Mack still wins.

I mean you can make more arguments

Murray > Richard
Thielen > Crabtree
Rudolph > Walford
Wright > Roberts

I mean it is absolutely pointless to argue these things because the offenses are totally different.

Just sum it up as Oakland Offense > Minnesota Offense, Oakland Defense < Minnesota Defense.


Murray probably will work better than he did in the Oakland Offense because he will probably end up with more opportunities to touch the ball. Carr is a better passer than Bradford so you tend to see him take chances and use his receivers and make them get open. Bradford isn't going to make Murray any better tho. Carr makes Crabtree better and that's a fair thing to say, Crabtree can run routes and make plays on the ball. I do not believe he will make Patterson better, but Patterson is in a better situation because they may very well use him a little better than the Vikings used him.

If they did this as a straight up trade it may very well end up making both teams better. Murray can actually gain yards running the ball for the Vikings, and Patterson can add a little excitement into the Raiders offense as a #3 if they can get the ball into his hands.

Neither one of the two are that great of options for the teams, but do improve the teams.


It's a rather pointless discussion but I don't believe Murray is better than Richard and frankly Thielen > Crabtree is laughable.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 7772
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
gopherwrestler wrote:
How does one adjust Mack vs Barr? they literally play 2 different positions?
I mean yes, Mack is better.. but Barr doesn't do the pass rushing Mack does.
It would probably be more comparable going Hunter and Mack, which Mack still wins.

I mean you can make more arguments

Murray > Richard
Thielen > Crabtree
Rudolph > Walford
Wright > Roberts

I mean it is absolutely pointless to argue these things because the offenses are totally different.

Just sum it up as Oakland Offense > Minnesota Offense, Oakland Defense < Minnesota Defense.


Murray probably will work better than he did in the Oakland Offense because he will probably end up with more opportunities to touch the ball. Carr is a better passer than Bradford so you tend to see him take chances and use his receivers and make them get open. Bradford isn't going to make Murray any better tho. Carr makes Crabtree better and that's a fair thing to say, Crabtree can run routes and make plays on the ball. I do not believe he will make Patterson better, but Patterson is in a better situation because they may very well use him a little better than the Vikings used him.

If they did this as a straight up trade it may very well end up making both teams better. Murray can actually gain yards running the ball for the Vikings, and Patterson can add a little excitement into the Raiders offense as a #3 if they can get the ball into his hands.

Neither one of the two are that great of options for the teams, but do improve the teams.


It's a rather pointless discussion but I don't believe Murray is better than Richard and frankly Thielen > Crabtree is laughable.


The fact that Murray touching the ball more will somehow make him better behind Minnesotas line is absolutely insane. And I'm not trying to stir something up. I'd love a good argument for why because I don't see the slightest hint of one.
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bertuzzi wrote:
Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 23191
Location: PGH
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if Murray starts every game, what's a good stat prediction for him?

(assuming Minnesota goes from a terrible Oline to an average one)
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Heimdallr


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Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 10237
Location: Himinbjörg
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
if Murray starts every game, what's a good stat prediction for him?

(assuming Minnesota goes from a terrible Oline to an average one)

If we assume ~15 carries per game, I would say 1000 yards and 8 TD would be a good season. Add in 30 catches for 250 yards. That would all be inline with what he did for the last two seasons.

I wouldn't expect more than that from him, especially considering we will probably have a rotation of RBs in every game.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 16829
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
if Murray starts every game, what's a good stat prediction for him?

(assuming Minnesota goes from a terrible Oline to an average one)


Around 1000 yards and 8/10 TDs if he's getting most of the carries.
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gopherwrestler


Joined: 20 Jan 2014
Posts: 5455
Location: 'Sota
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:


The fact that Murray touching the ball more will somehow make him better behind Minnesotas line is absolutely insane. And I'm not trying to stir something up. I'd love a good argument for why because I don't see the slightest hint of one.


I think you kind of took it out of what I meant.
I didn't mean he would get better, I just meant it is a better situation for him.
He should be able to touch the ball more, possibly even put up bigger numbers, even with a weaker offensive line.

In Oakland he would be primarily be rotating with 3 RB's.
Usually players can eventually bust a bigger run when they have more chances.

In no way did I mean he is going to magically become a better player coming to Minnesota.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3020
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murray is a decent bet for GL work and clock-draining work. McKinnon is pretty set as the passing/2-minute drill/CoP guy. Doesn't mean they won't throw to Murray, but seems like using Murray on 1st/2nd down and when protecting leads and McKinnon for pass/2-minute/catchup role is a pretty clean and rational split of work. Keeps both fresh, and maximizes the talents of both.
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This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
Murray is a decent bet for GL work and clock-draining work. McKinnon is pretty set as the passing/2-minute drill/CoP guy. Doesn't mean they won't throw to Murray, but seems like using Murray on 1st/2nd down and when protecting leads and McKinnon for pass/2-minute/catchup role is a pretty clean and rational split of work. Keeps both fresh, and maximizes the talents of both.

We are also expecting a rookie to be drafted in the 2nd-4th round and get playing time.

Murray is definitely not going to be a relied on as a workhorse.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3020
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
Murray is a decent bet for GL work and clock-draining work. McKinnon is pretty set as the passing/2-minute drill/CoP guy. Doesn't mean they won't throw to Murray, but seems like using Murray on 1st/2nd down and when protecting leads and McKinnon for pass/2-minute/catchup role is a pretty clean and rational split of work. Keeps both fresh, and maximizes the talents of both.

We are also expecting a rookie to be drafted in the 2nd-4th round and get playing time.

Murray is definitely not going to be a relied on as a workhorse.


Makes sense. Realistically he's a one-year stopgap. McKinnon is fantastic in space, but I doubt he'll hold up to more than 10-15 touches a game, and he's not really adapted to running between the tackles as hoped (now with 3 years as a RB in his belt, if it's not happening in 2017, doubt it ever happens). Keeping a 2-headed backfield as long as McKinnon is there very cost-efficient way to have an effective backfield.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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vikingsrule


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 52468
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, McKinnon is best at under 100 carries per year. Murray should get the bulk of the carries and remain on the field on third down but McKinnon will still be a factor in the running game. Mn should look to the draft for a third RB but I don't expect that player to be much of a factor this year.
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 29940
Location: Wonderland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the O-Line is solid Tay can go 1250, 4-4.5 YPC and 6-8 TDs. He is absolutely NFL starter quality.
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