Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Keeping Number 12
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 32, 33, 34  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Are We Keeping #12?
Yes
61%
 61%  [ 21 ]
No
38%
 38%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 34

Author Message
MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 7636
Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
MSURacerDT55 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Also, check out this video (a cut up of the absolute worst of Brock Osweiler from 2016). Notice how many of these incompletions hit the WRs in the hands. Notice the fade into the end zone where the WR gives up before even reaching the end zone and starts jogging and the ball goes right into the corner. Notice the WRs simply failing to get separation. Notice a few of these plays, where a WR is no where in the same neighborhood as the throw. Was it a bad throw from Brock, or was the WRs running the wrong route?

Now don't get me wrong, a lot of this does look very bad on Brock, and is undeniably so, the tipped ball at the LOS, the fumble where the ball slipped out of his hands. The botched exchange with the center.

However, it is quite apparent watching this that his team was every bit as responsible. I could see any QB being frustrated and making mistakes when their team mates are half assing it out there on the battlefield. I honestly believe that is what we have here.

At first, I thought it was just Bill O Brian could not coach a QB, but this cut up looks to me like he has lost his team. How many times here in Cleveland have we seen unmotivated teams over the years, just going through the motions, and not playing with an ounce of heart? I have seen it a lot, and I can recognize it, even in a video made solely to reflect negatively on Osweiler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLM_KBta04U



I know I'm late but there were a lot of encouraging things in that cut-up



-his footwork in the pocket, he climbed the pocket with ease and always kept his eyes down field

-he made pretty quick decisions, go the ball out with pretty good rhythm

-really good ball placement

-pretty good mobility and improvisational skills.

-Wrs couldn't beat the press clean to save their lives

-OL was horrible, I saw at least three potential illegal man downfield penalties


The audacity for us to talk about QBs like we have #12 on our roster is preposterous, I'd give him a shot in a heartbeat.


Really good ball placement?

Not a single pass was thrown accurately.

If I missed one, please let me know what the timestamp is on that one.

Like I said, some people look in their used tissue and see the Mona Lisa. While the rest of us see it for the nasty trash it is, and want it thrown away before it makes anyone else sick.



Well lets see...


0:29 - Went right through his hands (and you can see him tapping on his chest saying my bad...)

0:34 - Right on his back shoulder and #10 dropped it, as good a ball placement as you will see.

0:46 - Obvious

1:02 - Had the receiver ran all the way through the route and not paused at the 20yd line the pass would have been right on the money, watch

1:20 - Right on his hands, beautiful ball plus pass interference

1:47 - Although behind him, it still a catchable ball

2:38 - Drop

2:44 - #10 had a terrible game

3:08 - Drop

3:14 - Drop right on his hands


Given the factors of him playing against such a great pass defense (#1) and great pass rush and terrible play by his WR, his game wasn't as bad as it seems....ON THE SURFACE, I don't see things on the surface.

Put me in the group of seeing my used tissue as seeing a Mona Lisa... Laughing , not calling Brock a Mona Lisa but there is a difference between what a normal fan who sits and drink beer sees and a person who is actually involved with the game sees, a world of a difference, learn how to watch film and you'll see.
_________________
@CoachHam6455
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
MSURacerDT55 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Also, check out this video (a cut up of the absolute worst of Brock Osweiler from 2016). Notice how many of these incompletions hit the WRs in the hands. Notice the fade into the end zone where the WR gives up before even reaching the end zone and starts jogging and the ball goes right into the corner. Notice the WRs simply failing to get separation. Notice a few of these plays, where a WR is no where in the same neighborhood as the throw. Was it a bad throw from Brock, or was the WRs running the wrong route?

Now don't get me wrong, a lot of this does look very bad on Brock, and is undeniably so, the tipped ball at the LOS, the fumble where the ball slipped out of his hands. The botched exchange with the center.

However, it is quite apparent watching this that his team was every bit as responsible. I could see any QB being frustrated and making mistakes when their team mates are half assing it out there on the battlefield. I honestly believe that is what we have here.

At first, I thought it was just Bill O Brian could not coach a QB, but this cut up looks to me like he has lost his team. How many times here in Cleveland have we seen unmotivated teams over the years, just going through the motions, and not playing with an ounce of heart? I have seen it a lot, and I can recognize it, even in a video made solely to reflect negatively on Osweiler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLM_KBta04U



I know I'm late but there were a lot of encouraging things in that cut-up



-his footwork in the pocket, he climbed the pocket with ease and always kept his eyes down field

-he made pretty quick decisions, go the ball out with pretty good rhythm

-really good ball placement

-pretty good mobility and improvisational skills.

-Wrs couldn't beat the press clean to save their lives

-OL was horrible, I saw at least three potential illegal man downfield penalties


The audacity for us to talk about QBs like we have #12 on our roster is preposterous, I'd give him a shot in a heartbeat.


Really good ball placement?

Not a single pass was thrown accurately.

If I missed one, please let me know what the timestamp is on that one.

Like I said, some people look in their used tissue and see the Mona Lisa. While the rest of us see it for the nasty trash it is, and want it thrown away before it makes anyone else sick.


Yeah, those balls that bounced off of the receiver's hands were just horribly placed balls, I mean, why didn't he throw at their feet or something. *end sarcasm*
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


Yup, and I still do, O Brien strikes me as a terrible coach and [inappropriate/removed] baggy. I could see a QB that was getting killed for an entire season largely because of him losing it. Especially if the QB in question is a competitor and came there to win... well for the money, but also wants to win in the process.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 15247
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


Yup, and I still do, O Brien strikes me as a terrible coach and [inappropriate/removed] baggy. I could see a QB that was getting killed for an entire season largely because of him losing it. Especially if the QB in question is a competitor and came there to win... well for the money, but also wants to win in the process.


Ah, now I see how you come to your conclusions, you simply dismiss anything that doesn't fit your narrative. Cool.

So a QB can whine to his coach "you are only playing me because you have to" and it's the coach's fault because you think he's a [inappropriate/removed]?

K.
_________________


First Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


Yup, and I still do, O Brien strikes me as a terrible coach and [inappropriate/removed] baggy. I could see a QB that was getting killed for an entire season largely because of him losing it. Especially if the QB in question is a competitor and came there to win... well for the money, but also wants to win in the process.


Ah, now I see how you come to your conclusions, you simply dismiss anything that doesn't fit your narrative. Cool.

So a QB can whine to his coach "you are only playing me because you have to" and it's the coach's fault because you think he's a [inappropriate/removed]?

K.


Actually no, it's more of a qb finally getting fed up with taking the heat because he can't fix the suck of his head coach and rest of the offense.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 15247
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


Yup, and I still do, O Brien strikes me as a terrible coach and [inappropriate/removed] baggy. I could see a QB that was getting killed for an entire season largely because of him losing it. Especially if the QB in question is a competitor and came there to win... well for the money, but also wants to win in the process.


Ah, now I see how you come to your conclusions, you simply dismiss anything that doesn't fit your narrative. Cool.

So a QB can whine to his coach "you are only playing me because you have to" and it's the coach's fault because you think he's a [inappropriate/removed]?

K.


Actually no, it's more of a qb finally getting fed up with taking the heat because he can't fix the suck of his head coach and rest of the offense.


If you say so lol.

At this point I'm fairly certain you are Brock Osweiler.

No other unbiased fan would think of defending such an incredibly mediocre (being kind) QB so consistently.

Welcome to the board Brock!
_________________


First Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 15241
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


Yup, and I still do, O Brien strikes me as a terrible coach and [inappropriate/removed] baggy. I could see a QB that was getting killed for an entire season largely because of him losing it. Especially if the QB in question is a competitor and came there to win... well for the money, but also wants to win in the process.


Ah, now I see how you come to your conclusions, you simply dismiss anything that doesn't fit your narrative. Cool.

So a QB can whine to his coach "you are only playing me because you have to" and it's the coach's fault because you think he's a [inappropriate/removed]?

K.


Actually no, it's more of a qb finally getting fed up with taking the heat because he can't fix the suck of his head coach and rest of the offense.


If you say so lol.

At this point I'm fairly certain you are Brock Osweiler.

No other unbiased fan would think of defending such an incredibly mediocre (being kind) QB so consistently.

Welcome to the board Brock!


The join date and the trade date do line up. Very Happy
_________________
NudeTayne wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
*Zayne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9034
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Exactly. That is why I think we would have a very hard time finding a trade partner who would give us a later 1st this year and a 2018 1st for pick 12.

And screw some "10 year starter" if we can get a REAL QB


I'm not expecting us to get two first round picks from trading 12 to move back some.


A late 1st and future 1st is doable most years. Lines up on the value chart also.
_________________
3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9034
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:


It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.


So then Brock will just never play again? Anywhere?
_________________
3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 15247
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


Yup, and I still do, O Brien strikes me as a terrible coach and [inappropriate/removed] baggy. I could see a QB that was getting killed for an entire season largely because of him losing it. Especially if the QB in question is a competitor and came there to win... well for the money, but also wants to win in the process.


Ah, now I see how you come to your conclusions, you simply dismiss anything that doesn't fit your narrative. Cool.

So a QB can whine to his coach "you are only playing me because you have to" and it's the coach's fault because you think he's a [inappropriate/removed]?

K.


Actually no, it's more of a qb finally getting fed up with taking the heat because he can't fix the suck of his head coach and rest of the offense.


If you say so lol.

At this point I'm fairly certain you are Brock Osweiler.

No other unbiased fan would think of defending such an incredibly mediocre (being kind) QB so consistently.

Welcome to the board Brock!


The join date and the trade date do line up. Very Happy


Lol I noticed that too.
_________________


First Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9034
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Exactly. That is why I think we would have a very hard time finding a trade partner who would give us a later 1st this year and a 2018 1st for pick 12.

And screw some "10 year starter" if we can get a REAL QB


That is just it, if we still NEED a REAL QB next year, we will be able to draft one with our own pick, no need to trade up to do so. If we are in no position to do so, it means that whoever we played at QB this year has performed well enough given the situation to stick with them as the team around him improves.


This, this is just not true MOST of them time.
We can have a royally crappy season and still win 4 games, and get something like pick 4 or 5. If there are top end QBs up there, you will need to trade up to get them. If teams picking 1 and 2 need a QB, then you aren't getting them at all.
_________________
3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40893
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Exactly. That is why I think we would have a very hard time finding a trade partner who would give us a later 1st this year and a 2018 1st for pick 12.

And screw some "10 year starter" if we can get a REAL QB


That is just it, if we still NEED a REAL QB next year, we will be able to draft one with our own pick, no need to trade up to do so. If we are in no position to do so, it means that whoever we played at QB this year has performed well enough given the situation to stick with them as the team around him improves.


This, this is just not true MOST of them time.
We can have a royally crappy season and still win 4 games, and get something like pick 4 or 5. If there are top end QBs up there, you will need to trade up to get them. If teams picking 1 and 2 need a QB, then you aren't getting them at all.


I dont know about that, if the Browns are picking in the top5 next year, they could easily by their way into the top2 picks next year, even if a team needs a QB. I would hope by next year the Browns will be mainly a QB away. I could see a team picking #1 or #2 next year might be more than a QB away. Browns offer their #1 pick and maybe two of their 2nd rd picks, and a future 2nd or 3rd and I could see a team taking that trade. To trade down 3 or 4 spots and to pull in some 2nds like that, specially with next years draft potentially having 3 first rd QBs, they could trade down and get the QB they wanted all long.

Kinda like the Browns, they traded down because they knew they had more holes to fill than just a QB.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Exactly. That is why I think we would have a very hard time finding a trade partner who would give us a later 1st this year and a 2018 1st for pick 12.

And screw some "10 year starter" if we can get a REAL QB


That is just it, if we still NEED a REAL QB next year, we will be able to draft one with our own pick, no need to trade up to do so. If we are in no position to do so, it means that whoever we played at QB this year has performed well enough given the situation to stick with them as the team around him improves.


This, this is just not true MOST of them time.
We can have a royally crappy season and still win 4 games, and get something like pick 4 or 5. If there are top end QBs up there, you will need to trade up to get them. If teams picking 1 and 2 need a QB, then you aren't getting them at all.


Except that next year looks to have a few blue chip prospects, similar to the year in which Ben fell to the steelers.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19796
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:


It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.


So then Brock will just never play again? Anywhere?


Not for $16M a year. Or even $8M, or someone would have jumped on the offer that was floating out there right after the trade went down.

This contract will need to be terminated before his career continues.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:


It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.


So then Brock will just never play again? Anywhere?


Not for $16M a year. Or even $8M, or someone would have jumped on the offer that was floating out there right after the trade went down.

This contract will need to be terminated before his career continues.


Talk about clueless. If he is cut, he is still paid 16 million a year. If another team signs him after he is cut, he is still paid 16 million for the year, only the browns pay the bulk of it.

You simply do not pay 16 million to cut a guy with loads of potential at a position that a team has struggled to fill for nearly 2 decades. Especially when you have a roster that struggles just to find 53 warm bodies.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 32, 33, 34  Next
Page 33 of 34

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group