Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Keeping Number 12
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 31, 32, 33, 34  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Are We Keeping #12?
Yes
61%
 61%  [ 21 ]
No
38%
 38%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 34

Author Message
duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8992
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
That $2 scratch off is costing us $16M. Sure, we got a 2nd round pick, but $16M is not insignificant.


Can you tell me why that 16 million IS significant?
What would we have used it on? Are we going to be up against the cap this year or next?


What makes it insignificant is that we are paying it, regardless if he is even on the roster. We are on the hook, its pure idiocy to pay $16 million for a guy with all of the physical tools and skills needed, and just throw him away when you have a roster that is desperate just to find 53 warm bodies.


We didn't pay 16 million for anything, but if you want to look at it that way we paid 16 million for a 2018 2nd rounder.

The money we are on the hook for is............INSIGNIFICANT in every possible way for this team, no matter what we choose to do with Brock. That is money we would have never used on the cap, hence, insignificant.
We essentially got a 2nd rounder for free.


You going to tell the the 52 guys in that locker room making less than him that $16M a year is insignificant?

Film it if you do.


We are not having the same conversation here it appears.
_________________
3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 5444
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Exactly. That is why I think we would have a very hard time finding a trade partner who would give us a later 1st this year and a 2018 1st for pick 12.

And screw some "10 year starter" if we can get a REAL QB


I'm not expecting us to get two first round picks from trading 12 to move back some.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19560
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
That $2 scratch off is costing us $16M. Sure, we got a 2nd round pick, but $16M is not insignificant.


Can you tell me why that 16 million IS significant?
What would we have used it on? Are we going to be up against the cap this year or next?


What makes it insignificant is that we are paying it, regardless if he is even on the roster. We are on the hook, its pure idiocy to pay $16 million for a guy with all of the physical tools and skills needed, and just throw him away when you have a roster that is desperate just to find 53 warm bodies.


We didn't pay 16 million for anything, but if you want to look at it that way we paid 16 million for a 2018 2nd rounder.

The money we are on the hook for is............INSIGNIFICANT in every possible way for this team, no matter what we choose to do with Brock. That is money we would have never used on the cap, hence, insignificant.
We essentially got a 2nd rounder for free.


You going to tell the the 52 guys in that locker room making less than him that $16M a year is insignificant?

Film it if you do.


We are not having the same conversation here it appears.


You asked what the significance was, didn't you?

I'm saying if Brock ever walks onto a practice field as part of this team it will be a huge insult to every player in that locker room.

If they move him? The players see it is we see it: $16M in cap space for a 2nd rounder.

If he stays, they see it as the team giving money to a bust instead of them.

The optics of the situation change greatly once they start coming in to work and having to look at his stupid face and think "how is this POS making 10 times what I'm making?".

It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11192
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
The more of Trubiski I watch the more I like him. I am also absolutely certain Switzer will be a good NFL player.


My issues have always been about him playing in a spread, but that's it.

Things I like:

+Size
+Athleticism
+Arm strength
+Resiliency - Dude fought back in numerous games this year
+Willing to get absolutely crushed in order to complete a pass
+Decision making


Things I can't measure and will have to ultimately rely on coaches:
-Leadership
-Intelligence - People think they can measure his intelligence, but only coaches can in reality.


I've heard from 3 sources his intelligence is pretty high. One being his coach. I have heard he's one of the smartest persons (football wise) in the room. And I have no problem with his leadership. Now his lack of experience is concerning to me. Absolutely his worst negative about him, and truly a concern.

Lack of zip? Ridiculous. His release being slow? Ridiculous.

Me being Bob Brown? Ridiculous.
_________________

Thanks Reg!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 14928
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
That $2 scratch off is costing us $16M. Sure, we got a 2nd round pick, but $16M is not insignificant.


Can you tell me why that 16 million IS significant?
What would we have used it on? Are we going to be up against the cap this year or next?


What makes it insignificant is that we are paying it, regardless if he is even on the roster. We are on the hook, its pure idiocy to pay $16 million for a guy with all of the physical tools and skills needed, and just throw him away when you have a roster that is desperate just to find 53 warm bodies.


We didn't pay 16 million for anything, but if you want to look at it that way we paid 16 million for a 2018 2nd rounder.

The money we are on the hook for is............INSIGNIFICANT in every possible way for this team, no matter what we choose to do with Brock. That is money we would have never used on the cap, hence, insignificant.
We essentially got a 2nd rounder for free.


You going to tell the the 52 guys in that locker room making less than him that $16M a year is insignificant?

Film it if you do.


We are not having the same conversation here it appears.


You asked what the significance was, didn't you?

I'm saying if Brock ever walks onto a practice field as part of this team it will be a huge insult to every player in that locker room.

If they move him? The players see it is we see it: $16M in cap space for a 2nd rounder.

If he stays, they see it as the team giving money to a bust instead of them.

The optics of the situation change greatly once they start coming in to work and having to look at his stupid face and think "how is this POS making 10 times what I'm making?".

It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.


Well we could cut Osweiler and we'll still owe the 16m. Yeah he is grossly overpaid and some players may have some resentment but he is getting paid either way. I wouldn't make a move solely to avoid that possibly happening but there is a chance I'd cut him prior to the season simply because he wasn't good enough to make the team.
_________________
Bonanza23 wrote:
1st off Thomas is a man!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
That $2 scratch off is costing us $16M. Sure, we got a 2nd round pick, but $16M is not insignificant.


Can you tell me why that 16 million IS significant?
What would we have used it on? Are we going to be up against the cap this year or next?


What makes it insignificant is that we are paying it, regardless if he is even on the roster. We are on the hook, its pure idiocy to pay $16 million for a guy with all of the physical tools and skills needed, and just throw him away when you have a roster that is desperate just to find 53 warm bodies.


We didn't pay 16 million for anything, but if you want to look at it that way we paid 16 million for a 2018 2nd rounder.

The money we are on the hook for is............INSIGNIFICANT in every possible way for this team, no matter what we choose to do with Brock. That is money we would have never used on the cap, hence, insignificant.
We essentially got a 2nd rounder for free.


You going to tell the the 52 guys in that locker room making less than him that $16M a year is insignificant?

Film it if you do.


We are not having the same conversation here it appears.


You asked what the significance was, didn't you?

I'm saying if Brock ever walks onto a practice field as part of this team it will be a huge insult to every player in that locker room.

If they move him? The players see it is we see it: $16M in cap space for a 2nd rounder.

If he stays, they see it as the team giving money to a bust instead of them.

The optics of the situation change greatly once they start coming in to work and having to look at his stupid face and think "how is this POS making 10 times what I'm making?".

It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.


Where is that classic video clip from Billy Madison when you need it.

Anyway, I digress, this is simply false, no one in the Browns organization created that contract or had anything to do with it, that is between the agent and the Texans management. Once here, what he makes, means nothing to what others make. They have their own agents, and they will negotiate the best deals for those players, period. Osweiler's 16 Million is not going to mean a red cent less for any other player on the roster. Also, when you get into the millions of dollars per year, its not really a keeping up with the Jones scenario within the same team. Yes, the top WR on your team, if he has comparable numbers, will want a deal a little better than the biggest WR contract in the league.... that same WR will not be upset that there is a QB making more than him.

Cutting Osweiler for nothing, and paying him $16 million to go play for another team, is sheer foolishness no matter how you look at it.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
The more of Trubiski I watch the more I like him. I am also absolutely certain Switzer will be a good NFL player.


My issues have always been about him playing in a spread, but that's it.

Things I like:

+Size
+Athleticism
+Arm strength
+Resiliency - Dude fought back in numerous games this year
+Willing to get absolutely crushed in order to complete a pass
+Decision making


Things I can't measure and will have to ultimately rely on coaches:
-Leadership
-Intelligence - People think they can measure his intelligence, but only coaches can in reality.


I've heard from 3 sources his intelligence is pretty high. One being his coach. I have heard he's one of the smartest persons (football wise) in the room. And I have no problem with his leadership. Now his lack of experience is concerning to me. Absolutely his worst negative about him, and truly a concern.

Lack of zip? Ridiculous. His release being slow? Ridiculous.

Me being Bob Brown? Ridiculous.


Great points, except for the tape doesn't lie, also, his college coach may not be the most reliable person to ask. Remember in 2007 how much Charlie Weis talked up Brady Quinn? Its what college coaches do for their guys that are heading into the NFL... it doesn't make what they say accurate in any way.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
That $2 scratch off is costing us $16M. Sure, we got a 2nd round pick, but $16M is not insignificant.


Can you tell me why that 16 million IS significant?
What would we have used it on? Are we going to be up against the cap this year or next?


What makes it insignificant is that we are paying it, regardless if he is even on the roster. We are on the hook, its pure idiocy to pay $16 million for a guy with all of the physical tools and skills needed, and just throw him away when you have a roster that is desperate just to find 53 warm bodies.


We didn't pay 16 million for anything, but if you want to look at it that way we paid 16 million for a 2018 2nd rounder.

The money we are on the hook for is............INSIGNIFICANT in every possible way for this team, no matter what we choose to do with Brock. That is money we would have never used on the cap, hence, insignificant.
We essentially got a 2nd rounder for free.


You going to tell the the 52 guys in that locker room making less than him that $16M a year is insignificant?

Film it if you do.


We are not having the same conversation here it appears.


You asked what the significance was, didn't you?

I'm saying if Brock ever walks onto a practice field as part of this team it will be a huge insult to every player in that locker room.

If they move him? The players see it is we see it: $16M in cap space for a 2nd rounder.

If he stays, they see it as the team giving money to a bust instead of them.

The optics of the situation change greatly once they start coming in to work and having to look at his stupid face and think "how is this POS making 10 times what I'm making?".

It's a powder keg of a situation, with improbable odds of success.


Well we could cut Osweiler and we'll still owe the 16m. Yeah he is grossly overpaid and some players may have some resentment but he is getting paid either way. I wouldn't make a move solely to avoid that possibly happening but there is a chance I'd cut him prior to the season simply because he wasn't good enough to make the team.


Now that is entirely different. If he comes in, competes, and is simply not good enough to deserve a spot on the roster, then cut him. I, myself, simply don't believe that is going to happen.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
That $2 scratch off is costing us $16M. Sure, we got a 2nd round pick, but $16M is not insignificant.


Can you tell me why that 16 million IS significant?
What would we have used it on? Are we going to be up against the cap this year or next?


What makes it insignificant is that we are paying it, regardless if he is even on the roster. We are on the hook, its pure idiocy to pay $16 million for a guy with all of the physical tools and skills needed, and just throw him away when you have a roster that is desperate just to find 53 warm bodies.


We didn't pay 16 million for anything, but if you want to look at it that way we paid 16 million for a 2018 2nd rounder.

The money we are on the hook for is............INSIGNIFICANT in every possible way for this team, no matter what we choose to do with Brock. That is money we would have never used on the cap, hence, insignificant.
We essentially got a 2nd rounder for free.


You going to tell the the 52 guys in that locker room making less than him that $16M a year is insignificant?

Film it if you do.


I would tell them, of course, contracts are individual, negotiated between agents and teams, period. What a QB is paid, by a contract, negotiated between their own agent and the management of another team, has literally nothing to do with what is paid to any other player on this roster. They are playing for a contract negotiated between their own agent, and this team. If they want more, its simple, perform at a high level, and when your existing contract is up, you will be paid. This is the NFL, not keeping up with the Joneses.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Exactly. That is why I think we would have a very hard time finding a trade partner who would give us a later 1st this year and a 2018 1st for pick 12.

And screw some "10 year starter" if we can get a REAL QB


That is just it, if we still NEED a REAL QB next year, we will be able to draft one with our own pick, no need to trade up to do so. If we are in no position to do so, it means that whoever we played at QB this year has performed well enough given the situation to stick with them as the team around him improves.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DizzyDean


Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 440
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Wolfhunt wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
This thread is becoming a rather painful read. Do we really need to quote complete 1,000 word back and forth exchanges? Just lazy.

Brocky Brocky.....oooo oooooo, how you can throw. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

1- Do not draft a QB this year
2- Let Brock/Cody/whoever do what they do this year
3- trade pick 12, get another 2018 1st and a late 1st this year (if any team would even do that)
4- go 3-13
5- Draft QB next year, retain all our good players, sign a few more good players, make playoffs in 2018 or 2019


Those are the two best options I have seen someone say besides me.


Then I would think trading pick 12 would be important to significantly increase our chances of landing a top QB next year.


I would think not, because I believe that a generational prospect will fall in our laps at 12, that will be a 10 plus year starter. Trading that away.... nope! There should be at least a few good QB prospects next year, either whoever is at QB does well and we finish middle of the pack and have enough confidence to roll with them, or they fail, and we win 3 or 4 games, and are in position for one of the blue chippers to fall to us naturally in the draft.

No need to overthink things, outcute ourselves, and Julio Jones ourselves yet again.


Ok fine, then we can use pick 33 or a later 2nd this year and more for a future 1st.

Just get another future 1st


I still would say that is a big nope, while this draft is pure crap at QB, it is extremely deep at CB, S, and TE.

If we are bad enough to need a QB next year, we should be able to get one of the blue chippers with our own pick. If we are not bad enough to be picking top 5 that means our QB has done pretty well.

I envision 4 long term starters for the Cleveland Browns with the picks in rounds 1 and 2. No trades needed.


Does anyone else get how, pardon my direct approach, but, stupid it is for someone to be anti-trading back because its a "deep" class at positions of need? If it wasn't a deep class at those positions, that would actually support your idea of not trading down, because if we did we wouldn't have an option 1b to go with there. In this class, we do. Hell at TE we have at least 3 #1 options.


The difference is quality, its not a difficult to understand. If you have your choice between a player that has potential to be GOOD and start for several years later on in the draft, do you pass up the player that has potential to be GREAT for several years in order to pick up another draft pick to draft another player that has potential to be GOOD. This team is in position, with so many picks already on hand, we can get all of those GOOD level prospects that we care for. Its time to start drafting the GREAT prospects rather than continuing to settle on the present, to leverage the future.

Give me a Randy Moss type instead of a Marvin Jones and Pac Man Jones combo at this point.
_________________
But wait! There's more!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 7490
Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Also, check out this video (a cut up of the absolute worst of Brock Osweiler from 2016). Notice how many of these incompletions hit the WRs in the hands. Notice the fade into the end zone where the WR gives up before even reaching the end zone and starts jogging and the ball goes right into the corner. Notice the WRs simply failing to get separation. Notice a few of these plays, where a WR is no where in the same neighborhood as the throw. Was it a bad throw from Brock, or was the WRs running the wrong route?

Now don't get me wrong, a lot of this does look very bad on Brock, and is undeniably so, the tipped ball at the LOS, the fumble where the ball slipped out of his hands. The botched exchange with the center.

However, it is quite apparent watching this that his team was every bit as responsible. I could see any QB being frustrated and making mistakes when their team mates are half assing it out there on the battlefield. I honestly believe that is what we have here.

At first, I thought it was just Bill O Brian could not coach a QB, but this cut up looks to me like he has lost his team. How many times here in Cleveland have we seen unmotivated teams over the years, just going through the motions, and not playing with an ounce of heart? I have seen it a lot, and I can recognize it, even in a video made solely to reflect negatively on Osweiler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLM_KBta04U



I know I'm late but there were a lot of encouraging things in that cut-up



-his footwork in the pocket, he climbed the pocket with ease and always kept his eyes down field

-he made pretty quick decisions, go the ball out with pretty good rhythm

-really good ball placement

-pretty good mobility and improvisational skills.

-Wrs couldn't beat the press clean to save their lives

-OL was horrible, I saw at least three potential illegal man downfield penalties


The audacity for us to talk about QBs like we have #12 on our roster is preposterous, I'd give him a shot in a heartbeat.
_________________
@CoachHam6455
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19560
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Also, check out this video (a cut up of the absolute worst of Brock Osweiler from 2016). Notice how many of these incompletions hit the WRs in the hands. Notice the fade into the end zone where the WR gives up before even reaching the end zone and starts jogging and the ball goes right into the corner. Notice the WRs simply failing to get separation. Notice a few of these plays, where a WR is no where in the same neighborhood as the throw. Was it a bad throw from Brock, or was the WRs running the wrong route?

Now don't get me wrong, a lot of this does look very bad on Brock, and is undeniably so, the tipped ball at the LOS, the fumble where the ball slipped out of his hands. The botched exchange with the center.

However, it is quite apparent watching this that his team was every bit as responsible. I could see any QB being frustrated and making mistakes when their team mates are half assing it out there on the battlefield. I honestly believe that is what we have here.

At first, I thought it was just Bill O Brian could not coach a QB, but this cut up looks to me like he has lost his team. How many times here in Cleveland have we seen unmotivated teams over the years, just going through the motions, and not playing with an ounce of heart? I have seen it a lot, and I can recognize it, even in a video made solely to reflect negatively on Osweiler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLM_KBta04U



I know I'm late but there were a lot of encouraging things in that cut-up



-his footwork in the pocket, he climbed the pocket with ease and always kept his eyes down field

-he made pretty quick decisions, go the ball out with pretty good rhythm

-really good ball placement

-pretty good mobility and improvisational skills.

-Wrs couldn't beat the press clean to save their lives

-OL was horrible, I saw at least three potential illegal man downfield penalties


The audacity for us to talk about QBs like we have #12 on our roster is preposterous, I'd give him a shot in a heartbeat.


Really good ball placement?

Not a single pass was thrown accurately.

If I missed one, please let me know what the timestamp is on that one.

Like I said, some people look in their used tissue and see the Mona Lisa. While the rest of us see it for the nasty trash it is, and want it thrown away before it makes anyone else sick.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 14692
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/
_________________


First Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40129
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Folks still seem to dismiss this as nothing....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-week-17-incident-between-texans-bill-obrien-brock-osweiler-led-to-trade/


B.o.B. in the hardknocks of the texans. B.o.B. seemed more like a authority figure type coach, instead of a players type coach. Trys to emulate BB. That style doesnt work for everyone. I remember Couglin was like that in the beginning with the Giants. Once he eased up, Giants finally hit their stride and ended up winning a couple superbowls.

To me Hue seems like the complete opposite and that he is a players coach. Hence why players love to play for him.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 31, 32, 33, 34  Next
Page 32 of 34

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group