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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:

I guess we could fit his money under the cap if we really want to, but that could mean no extension for Gabe Jackson.
32M-the rookie class, which could be around 6-8M.
If we count Richardson in with 8M we would be with 16-18M before the extensions. I think that is not enough for Carr and Gabe.


Our rookie pool is 5.9M but that doesn't mean it takes that amount off the 32M. Each player drafted (and signed) pushes another off the top 51. So in our case 8 players making 540k will come off the top 51 (8 x 540k= 4.3M). So in reality, the draft class will eat 1.6M (5.9 - 4.3) off those 32M.

We're going to sign Lynch at some point. I don't know how much he will cost. I'm going to assume 5M is the high end here.

Carr and Gabe's extension, if they are structured with signing bonuses, aren't gonna result into massive cap hits for 2017. The increase will come in 2018, when the new contract effectively kicks in. For 2017, the increase would be the proration of the signing bonus. That's around 6.5M for Carr and 2.5M for Gabe.

32M
-1.6 (draft class)
-5 (Lynch)
-6.5 (Carr)
-2.5 (Gabe)

=16M available

Now there are other ways to structure Carr and Gabe's extension so that's the unknown.
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jlieberum1985


Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 353
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Rolni wrote:

I guess we could fit his money under the cap if we really want to, but that could mean no extension for Gabe Jackson.
32M-the rookie class, which could be around 6-8M.
If we count Richardson in with 8M we would be with 16-18M before the extensions. I think that is not enough for Carr and Gabe.


Our rookie pool is 5.9M but that doesn't mean it takes that amount off the 32M. Each player drafted (and signed) pushes another off the top 51. So in our case 8 players making 540k will come off the top 51 (8 x 540k= 4.3M). So in reality, the draft class will eat 1.6M (5.9 - 4.3) off those 32M.

We're going to sign Lynch at some point. I don't know how much he will cost. I'm going to assume 5M is the high end here.

Carr and Gabe's extension, if they are structured with signing bonuses, aren't gonna result into massive cap hits for 2017. The increase will come in 2018, when the new contract effectively kicks in. For 2017, the increase would be the proration of the signing bonus. That's around 6.5M for Carr and 2.5M for Gabe.

32M
-1.6 (draft class)
-5 (Lynch)
-6.5 (Carr)
-2.5 (Gabe)

=16M available

Now there are other ways to structure Carr and Gabe's extension so that's the unknown.


so far our cap room is 31,607,640 and rookie pool cost 5,971,546 toward to the cap = 25,636,094 left over
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 6694
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Rolni wrote:

I guess we could fit his money under the cap if we really want to, but that could mean no extension for Gabe Jackson.
32M-the rookie class, which could be around 6-8M.
If we count Richardson in with 8M we would be with 16-18M before the extensions. I think that is not enough for Carr and Gabe.


Our rookie pool is 5.9M but that doesn't mean it takes that amount off the 32M. Each player drafted (and signed) pushes another off the top 51. So in our case 8 players making 540k will come off the top 51 (8 x 540k= 4.3M). So in reality, the draft class will eat 1.6M (5.9 - 4.3) off those 32M.

We're going to sign Lynch at some point. I don't know how much he will cost. I'm going to assume 5M is the high end here.

Carr and Gabe's extension, if they are structured with signing bonuses, aren't gonna result into massive cap hits for 2017. The increase will come in 2018, when the new contract effectively kicks in. For 2017, the increase would be the proration of the signing bonus. That's around 6.5M for Carr and 2.5M for Gabe.

32M
-1.6 (draft class)
-5 (Lynch)
-6.5 (Carr)
-2.5 (Gabe)

=16M available

Now there are other ways to structure Carr and Gabe's extension so that's the unknown.


I would assume our current extra cap space is in place to be able to push forward money from Carr and Jackson's extensions. We may have planned on some signings but didn't get those guys. But I have to think they will eat some cap this year with those guys to keep a healthy future cap.

It doesn't have to be done with signing bonuses. There are plenty of ways with roster bonuses and such.

Based on past contracts and contract thinking, I think they will be held to their original salaries for the 4th year, their salaries will escalate significantly for their 5th years and beyond. But some form of bonus will be taken immediately on this year's cap to lower the total future years' hit. Especially with Carr. McKenzie would be crazy not to use this current cap room to chow down on as much of Carr's total as possible in future years. Your QB is essentially your biggest cap obstacle.
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jlieberum1985


Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 353
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Rolni wrote:

I guess we could fit his money under the cap if we really want to, but that could mean no extension for Gabe Jackson.
32M-the rookie class, which could be around 6-8M.
If we count Richardson in with 8M we would be with 16-18M before the extensions. I think that is not enough for Carr and Gabe.


Our rookie pool is 5.9M but that doesn't mean it takes that amount off the 32M. Each player drafted (and signed) pushes another off the top 51. So in our case 8 players making 540k will come off the top 51 (8 x 540k= 4.3M). So in reality, the draft class will eat 1.6M (5.9 - 4.3) off those 32M.

We're going to sign Lynch at some point. I don't know how much he will cost. I'm going to assume 5M is the high end here.

Carr and Gabe's extension, if they are structured with signing bonuses, aren't gonna result into massive cap hits for 2017. The increase will come in 2018, when the new contract effectively kicks in. For 2017, the increase would be the proration of the signing bonus. That's around 6.5M for Carr and 2.5M for Gabe.

32M
-1.6 (draft class)
-5 (Lynch)
-6.5 (Carr)
-2.5 (Gabe)

=16M available

Now there are other ways to structure Carr and Gabe's extension so that's the unknown.


I would assume our current extra cap space is in place to be able to push forward money from Carr and Jackson's extensions. We may have planned on some signings but didn't get those guys. But I have to think they will eat some cap this year with those guys to keep a healthy future cap.

It doesn't have to be done with signing bonuses. There are plenty of ways with roster bonuses and such.

Based on past contracts and contract thinking, I think they will be held to their original salaries for the 4th year, their salaries will escalate significantly for their 5th years and beyond. But some form of bonus will be taken immediately on this year's cap to lower the total future years' hit. Especially with Carr. McKenzie would be crazy not to use this current cap room to chow down on as much of Carr's total as possible in future years. Your QB is essentially your biggest cap obstacle.


correct, even their 4th year rookie contract will be in 2017, extension will kick toward 2018
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlieberum1985 wrote:

so far our cap room is 31,607,640 and rookie pool cost 5,971,546 toward to the cap = 25,636,094 left over


I explained how that's not correct. Top 51.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
McKenzie would be crazy not to use this current cap room to chow down on as much of Carr's total as possible in future years. Your QB is essentially your biggest cap obstacle.


I don't think one way is definitely better than the other since the unused cap space can be rolled over to next year anyway.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 6694
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
McKenzie would be crazy not to use this current cap room to chow down on as much of Carr's total as possible in future years. Your QB is essentially your biggest cap obstacle.


I don't think one way is definitely better than the other since the unused cap space can be rolled over to next year anyway.


True. I completely forgot about that. I guess I'm mentally stuck on past years' cap issues and the way it used to work.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3420
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggie is not high on signing bonuses...he most probably will make these extensions like he did with Amerson. Big roster bonus for the current year and for the next 1-2 or 3 plus the salary.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
Reggie is not high on signing bonuses...he most probably will make these extensions like he did with Amerson. Big roster bonus for the current year and for the next 1-2 or 3 plus the salary.


Probably for Gabe. Not sure for Carr.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3122
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raiders exercise 5th-year option on LB Khalil Mack.

That should be around 13-14mil.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8688
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay Howard released by KC could come in and compete at DT.
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daineraider


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6953
Location: Salt Lake City
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Jay Howard released by KC could come in and compete at DT.


I would guess that Reggie will at least put out a flyer to see what his price is. We need help up front so Im all for it.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Jay Howard released by KC could come in and compete at DT.


It a calculated risk by the Chiefs. Before they released him they carried a 2.5mil guarantee for him with a 6.3mil in total cap hit for 2017. If he signs with another team before the draft then KC is off the hook for the whole amount. If he doesn't and they don't resign him they will carry 5mil in dead money for him for the year. Add to that that he is recovering from hip surgery. So I expect if no one bites and signs him, they'd better resign him.

Not sure it worth it for us to sign him with the injury and the chance to further screw the Chiefs cap situation. They currently have only 3mil in cap space not counting this move.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 8092
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Jay Howard released by KC could come in and compete at DT.


It a calculated risk by the Chiefs. Before they released him they carried a 2.5mil guarantee for him with a 6.3mil in total cap hit for 2017. If he signs with another team before the draft then KC is off the hook for the whole amount. If he doesn't and they don't resign him they will carry 5mil in dead money for him for the year. Add to that that he is recovering from hip surgery. So I expect if no one bites and signs him, they'd better resign him.

Not sure it worth it for us to sign him with the injury and the chance to further screw the Chiefs cap situation. They currently have only 3mil in cap space not counting this move.


Damn, Howard can be a good player inside though. He used to give our interior OL fits and can generate pressure too.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3122
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Jay Howard released by KC could come in and compete at DT.


It a calculated risk by the Chiefs. Before they released him they carried a 2.5mil guarantee for him with a 6.3mil in total cap hit for 2017. If he signs with another team before the draft then KC is off the hook for the whole amount. If he doesn't and they don't resign him they will carry 5mil in dead money for him for the year. Add to that that he is recovering from hip surgery. So I expect if no one bites and signs him, they'd better resign him.

Not sure it worth it for us to sign him with the injury and the chance to further screw the Chiefs cap situation. They currently have only 3mil in cap space not counting this move.


Damn, Howard can be a good player inside though. He used to give our interior OL fits and can generate pressure too.


Yeah he was. I really hated the KC depth inside the last 2 years. But remember how long it took Mario to get right after hip issues. Not saying they are in the same boat at all, just that I doubt he is ready to provide the same push.
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