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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but we're not gonna bench Brate.
That wouldn't make sense when Brate is the inferior blocker AND receiver. If the coaching staff was so sold on him, they wouldn't have gave ASJ like 6 chances. Nor would they have brought in Howard for a visit. But, lets move on now.
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LazyBoyFil


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but we're not gonna bench Brate.
That wouldn't make sense when Brate is the inferior blocker AND receiver. If the coaching staff was so sold on him, they wouldn't have gave ASJ like 6 chances. Nor would they have brought in Howard for a visit. But, lets move on now.


dude you cant say for certain that Howard is miles above Brate, nor that Brate is inferior in any aspects

Brate has done this against NFL competition Howard has not

of course we weren't sold on brate before last year he was a UDFA from Harvard of all places , but now you can say hey Brate is a solid solid TE in this league and id take something real special to unseat him day 1
is it possible, yeah
probable, no
im not saying Howard cant do it, and if we picked him id be rootinghe does

but with other major holes id rather us take Peppers in the 1st than Howard, bc we need more impact at that position than we do at TE
we could easily just sign a vet if we just want better blocking at TE
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One question you still have to answer. If Howard was that good why wasn't he Alabamas #2 option even?
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:

dude you cant say for certain that Howard is miles above Brate, nor that Brate is inferior in any aspects

Brate has done this against NFL competition Howard has not

of course we weren't sold on brate before last year he was a UDFA from Harvard of all places , but now you can say hey Brate is a solid solid TE in this league and id take something real special to unseat him day 1
is it possible, yeah
probable, no
im not saying Howard cant do it, and if we picked him id be rootinghe does

but with other major holes id rather us take Peppers in the 1st than Howard, bc we need more impact at that position than we do at TE
we could easily just sign a vet if we just want better blocking at TE

Brate has one good year under his belt, that "done in NFL competition crap is null and void. 16 games is still not enough to be crowning ANYBODY. Sorry.

That being said, the draft is a projection. Howard is projected to be the superior player based off what he did in college. His game is more well-rounded than Brate. I'm sorry to break it to you, but it is what it is...

This thread is about team needs, I don't care about player X over player Y right now. Tight end is a need(minor) but still a need. Brate may be a good player or he may just be a flash in the pan. Who knows, Bucs need to keep their options open. And a top flight TE prospect would change the dynamic of the offense in more ways than 1. Koetter will find a way to use the now new fan favorite Cameron Brate trust me in 2 TE sets.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
One question you still have to answer. If Howard was that good why wasn't he Alabamas #2 option even?
Its Alabama, they have great players on that team. ArDarius Stewart and Calvin Ridley will be taken in the first 3 rounds whenever CR declares. Ridley is a round 1 talent, he is just on the old side. Not to mention, ALA used Howard to inline block that gave them more time to go deep.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could stand to upgrade every position on the team.

Brate broke out in a big way last year. We're not gonna reward that by benching him for no reason.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we bring in a TE why does that mean Brate is benched? They can both play?

Do I want to add to DE/S with high end talent sure. We add Barnett/Peppers etc I'm jacked. First and formost though Winston needs weapons. Adding Jackson, Brate "busting out", and Martin proving to the world he's an elite back means we shouldn't upgrade TE, WR or RB?
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LazyBoyFil


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
If we bring in a TE why does that mean Brate is benched? They can both play?

Do I want to add to DE/S with high end talent sure. We add Barnett/Peppers etc I'm jacked. First and formost though Winston needs weapons. Adding Jackson, Brate "busting out", and Martin proving to the world he's an elite back means we shouldn't upgrade TE, WR or RB?


like mentioned this thread is about NEEDS

TE

NOT one of them
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
If we bring in a TE why does that mean Brate is benched? They can both play?

Do I want to add to DE/S with high end talent sure. We add Barnett/Peppers etc I'm jacked. First and formost though Winston needs weapons. Adding Jackson, Brate "busting out", and Martin proving to the world he's an elite back means we shouldn't upgrade TE, WR or RB?


like mentioned this thread is about NEEDS

TE

NOT one of them


And I think we NEED a number one TE.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
And I think we NEED a number one TE.

Good thing we've got one. Wink
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
And I think we NEED a number one TE.

Good thing we've got one. Wink


I like Brate don't get me wrong. If we have a chance to select Howard, Njoku, Williams, Cook, Davis, McCaffery with our first I think we should take a long, long look at it.

If I'm not mistaken last year all we had was Evans on O. A few months later all of the sudden we have a pro bowl TE and an elite RB who will have fresh legs week four on top of a Mike Evans. I guess that's whey after signing Jackson everyone thinks we are good on O. I myself can't stand Martin and think Brate would be better served as a 1B to a 1A. Of course if it's not there then fine but I want Winston to have a ton of options.
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LazyBoyFil


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
And I think we NEED a number one TE.

Good thing we've got one. Wink


I like Brate don't get me wrong. If we have a chance to select Howard, Njoku, Williams, Cook, Davis, McCaffery with our first I think we should take a long, long look at it.

If I'm not mistaken last year all we had was Evans on O. A few months later all of the sudden we have a pro bowl TE and an elite RB who will have fresh legs week four on top of a Mike Evans. I guess that's whey after signing Jackson everyone thinks we are good on O. I myself can't stand Martin and think Brate would be better served as a 1B to a 1A. Of course if it's not there then fine but I want Winston to have a ton of options.


idk
I don't think you give Brate enough credit

if all those guys are on the board id rather us take Cook, Davis, McCaffery instead of the TE
but then again that's just all Offense
and id prefer some Defense
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nathan004


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saying TE is a need is like saying that I need to have a Corvette so I can get to work faster. Could we use another TE? Absolutely. Do we need to bypass all other needs to do so though? I'm not on board with this as of today. Now, BPA will come in to play at 19 and we could be "forced" to draft a Howard or Njoku (Darn). I just hope we go a different route.

RB is our top need but the draft is sooooo deep at the position so unless a Cook or Fournette drops to us we should pass.

Safety is in the same boat as RB except is is not nearly as deep so unless we plan on trading up for Hooker or Adams I think anything at 19 is reach for a position where we appear to have two starters set already.

I could argue that CB or DE is probably our best option at 19. Barnett, Charlton and Harris will all most likely be there. CB could be the better value though. Humphrey, Lattimore, Jackson are all 1st round worthy.

To round it out I think WR and TE are on equal planes of need here. Both positions have a clear #1 starter but still need another addition IMO. Corey Davis, Mike Williams and John Ross are all possibilities to be there at 19 and to me, if Davis or Williams are there then there is no debate anymore. You draft one of them. Ross I am still not sold on being around long term.

Brate is our #TE and has earned that spot. He has great chemistry with James and is still young enough to progress more. Wait until the 2nd for Engram or later for Hodges/Butt. There will be a bounty of talent at 19 without us having to move up.
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indifference


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathan004 wrote:
Saying TE is a need is like saying that I need to have a Corvette so I can get to work faster. Could we use another TE? Absolutely. Do we need to bypass all other needs to do so though? I'm not on board with this as of today. Now, BPA will come in to play at 19 and we could be "forced" to draft a Howard or Njoku (Darn). I just hope we go a different route.

RB is our top need but the draft is sooooo deep at the position so unless a Cook or Fournette drops to us we should pass.

Safety is in the same boat as RB except is is not nearly as deep so unless we plan on trading up for Hooker or Adams I think anything at 19 is reach for a position where we appear to have two starters set already.

I could argue that CB or DE is probably our best option at 19. Barnett, Charlton and Harris will all most likely be there. CB could be the better value though. Humphrey, Lattimore, Jackson are all 1st round worthy.

To round it out I think WR and TE are on equal planes of need here. Both positions have a clear #1 starter but still need another addition IMO. Corey Davis, Mike Williams and John Ross are all possibilities to be there at 19 and to me, if Davis or Williams are there then there is no debate anymore. You draft one of them. Ross I am still not sold on being around long term.

Brate is our #TE and has earned that spot. He has great chemistry with James and is still young enough to progress more. Wait until the 2nd for Engram or later for Hodges/Butt. There will be a bounty of talent at 19 without us having to move up.
Good post. I'll caveat on the TE situation. Brate the great has good hands is going to catch everything but not give you much if anything at all after the catch or make a lot of big yardage plays. But having a Travis Kelce type TE in regards to after the catch ability to pair with Brate along with Evans and Djax would be ridiculous for the offense.

If Barnett is there at 19, he's BPA over everyone. Lattimore will be a top 10 pick, Humphries I'm not sold on. Jackson has shutdown CB potential though so I'm on board but I'd be shocked if we go that route again.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we want TE depth, I'd rather take a guy like Shaheen in the fifth.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brate the great for crying out loud. Come on guys. Not wanting to move up to 1st overall to select Howard is one thing but calling Brate "all pro" is a bit much. I get it there's tons of love but reaching a bit much here no?

Wanting to select the 4th-6th best Dlinemen instead of the 2nd-3rd best receiver (wr/TE) because of Jackson or Brate the great is crazy. Two can play this game. We already have multiple double digit sacks guys (or guys who will be this year) along the dline. Want to add another guy to come and for a handful of plays each game? McCoy is gonna be sniffing double digit. Ayers is gonna be sniffing double digit. Spence is gonna be sniffing double digit. Anyone shocked if Smith can stay healthy that he sniffs double digit?

I say we get our 23 year old franchise player some help.
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