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pigsooie5


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 5610
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
G08 wrote:
I'm looking at our 2018 roster and there are a ton of dudes that can be let go / coming out of contract.

Porter can be cut for cheap ($300k)
Fuller is a FA
Amukamara is a FA
Cooper is under contract
Hall is under contract

So I have to believe CB is a target in this draft

TE... Zach Miller is a FA next year, so I think it is a need as well, unless you like the developmental prospects

Akiem Hicks is a FA so 5T/3T is a huge, huge need of ours. We could even double dip in this draft if we are worried that he will command a ton of $$$


I feel if Lattimore didn't have the hamstring concerns he would be the pick.

IIRC he had surgery on that hamstring and hasn't missed a game since
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of me wonders if Jamal Adams is going to make them fall in love.

Apparently he has Deahaun Watson level intangibles and work ethic.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 513
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.


Good safeties can make a big dif for a team. Remember what Dawkins meant to Eagles defense? Brown for Bears. Either of Seahawk safeties. Reed for Ravens. Troy P. for Steelers. Another guy for Colts during Manning years. Forgetting his name. Defense became horrible when he went down.

When those guys were injured or out you noticed big difference and drop off in play. Those defenses suffered a lot.

They got Demps, who I dont know a lot about, but had a bunch of ints last year. Pair him with Adams and you might have something.

Adams is a leader and alpha male. You can see it in his body language and that of his teammates. Hes real good in coverage, great tackler, maybe not greatest hands, and hes all over the field. Almost always in right position. Nobody is perfect.

Hooker played real deep - often 20 yards deep- mostly in cover 1 or 3 with 2 elite college corners on either side of him. Hes got great speed. Given that he is going to make some flash highlight plays. It makes it easier. You can tell they designed defense last season for that. He should have had more.

He is a fine player and athlete dont get me wrong. I just dont see an elite player who out ranks other prospects at 3. I saw him blow coverages, make weak tackles and get beat more than I would like.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.


Good safeties can make a big dif for a team. Remember what Dawkins meant to Eagles defense? Brown for Bears. Either of Seahawk safeties. Reed for Ravens. Troy P. for Steelers. Another guy for Colts during Manning years. Forgetting his name. Defense became horrible when he went down.

When those guys were injured or out you noticed big difference and drop off in play. Those defenses suffered a lot.

They got Demps, who I dont know a lot about, but had a bunch of ints last year. Pair him with Adams and you might have something.

Adams is a leader and alpha male. You can see it in his body language and that of his teammates. Hes real good in coverage, great tackler, maybe not greatest hands, and hes all over the field. Almost always in right position. Nobody is perfect.

Hooker played real deep - often 20 yards deep- mostly in cover 1 or 3 with 2 elite college corners on either side of him. Hes got great speed. Given that he is going to make some flash highlight plays. It makes it easier. You can tell they designed defense last season for that. He should have had more.

He is a fine player and athlete dont get me wrong. I just dont see an elite player who out ranks other prospects at 3. I saw him blow coverages, make weak tackles and get beat more than I would like.


Are you still talking about Adams here?
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 513
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.


Good safeties can make a big dif for a team. Remember what Dawkins meant to Eagles defense? Brown for Bears. Either of Seahawk safeties. Reed for Ravens. Troy P. for Steelers. Another guy for Colts during Manning years. Forgetting his name. Defense became horrible when he went down.

When those guys were injured or out you noticed big difference and drop off in play. Those defenses suffered a lot.

They got Demps, who I dont know a lot about, but had a bunch of ints last year. Pair him with Adams and you might have something.

Adams is a leader and alpha male. You can see it in his body language and that of his teammates. Hes real good in coverage, great tackler, maybe not greatest hands, and hes all over the field. Almost always in right position. Nobody is perfect.

Hooker played real deep - often 20 yards deep- mostly in cover 1 or 3 with 2 elite college corners on either side of him. Hes got great speed. Given that he is going to make some flash highlight plays. It makes it easier. You can tell they designed defense last season for that. He should have had more.

He is a fine player and athlete dont get me wrong. I just dont see an elite player who out ranks other prospects at 3. I saw him blow coverages, make weak tackles and get beat more than I would like.


Are you still talking about Adams here?


No Hooker. Adams I think is a worthy top 10 pick if you dont like the QBs.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6905
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.


Good safeties can make a big dif for a team. Remember what Dawkins meant to Eagles defense? Brown for Bears. Either of Seahawk safeties. Reed for Ravens. Troy P. for Steelers. Another guy for Colts during Manning years. Forgetting his name. Defense became horrible when he went down.

When those guys were injured or out you noticed big difference and drop off in play. Those defenses suffered a lot.

They got Demps, who I dont know a lot about, but had a bunch of ints last year. Pair him with Adams and you might have something.

Adams is a leader and alpha male. You can see it in his body language and that of his teammates. Hes real good in coverage, great tackler, maybe not greatest hands, and hes all over the field. Almost always in right position. Nobody is perfect.

Hooker played real deep - often 20 yards deep- mostly in cover 1 or 3 with 2 elite college corners on either side of him. Hes got great speed. Given that he is going to make some flash highlight plays. It makes it easier. You can tell they designed defense last season for that. He should have had more.

He is a fine player and athlete dont get me wrong. I just dont see an elite player who out ranks other prospects at 3. I saw him blow coverages, make weak tackles and get beat more than I would like.


Are you still talking about Adams here?


No Hooker. Adams I think is a worthy top 10 pick if you dont like the QBs.


I mean we had the 7th ranked passing defense in the NFL last season, but the 27th ranked rushing defense... shouldn't we beef up our line? Or is Adams going to fix that for us?
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 513
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.


Good safeties can make a big dif for a team. Remember what Dawkins meant to Eagles defense? Brown for Bears. Either of Seahawk safeties. Reed for Ravens. Troy P. for Steelers. Another guy for Colts during Manning years. Forgetting his name. Defense became horrible when he went down.

When those guys were injured or out you noticed big difference and drop off in play. Those defenses suffered a lot.

They got Demps, who I dont know a lot about, but had a bunch of ints last year. Pair him with Adams and you might have something.

Adams is a leader and alpha male. You can see it in his body language and that of his teammates. Hes real good in coverage, great tackler, maybe not greatest hands, and hes all over the field. Almost always in right position. Nobody is perfect.

Hooker played real deep - often 20 yards deep- mostly in cover 1 or 3 with 2 elite college corners on either side of him. Hes got great speed. Given that he is going to make some flash highlight plays. It makes it easier. You can tell they designed defense last season for that. He should have had more.

He is a fine player and athlete dont get me wrong. I just dont see an elite player who out ranks other prospects at 3. I saw him blow coverages, make weak tackles and get beat more than I would like.


Are you still talking about Adams here?


No Hooker. Adams I think is a worthy top 10 pick if you dont like the QBs.


I mean we had the 7th ranked passing defense in the NFL last season, but the 27th ranked rushing defense... shouldn't we beef up our line? Or is Adams going to fix that for us?


Its a BA situation. Like a QB take him. Garrett there take him. Thomas there take him.

All gone or dont like the QBs its probably Adams or Lattimore. Lattimore I think is a lot more boom or bust than Adams. Not convinced on him. Talent out of his ears and corner does out rank safety in scarcity. Hmmm.

Maybe that DE fromTennessee to consider? I haven't seen him yet. Also have to revisit Allen.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
Someone sell me on Adams... I'm going through draft breakdown and I'm seeing him excel in run support, but I don't see these flashy INTs like you see from Malik Hooker.

I don't think SS makes you great in today's NFL... you need an Earl Thomas level center fielder.

I don't care that this dude hoots and hollers, man.


Good safeties can make a big dif for a team. Remember what Dawkins meant to Eagles defense? Brown for Bears. Either of Seahawk safeties. Reed for Ravens. Troy P. for Steelers. Another guy for Colts during Manning years. Forgetting his name. Defense became horrible when he went down.

When those guys were injured or out you noticed big difference and drop off in play. Those defenses suffered a lot.

They got Demps, who I dont know a lot about, but had a bunch of ints last year. Pair him with Adams and you might have something.

Adams is a leader and alpha male. You can see it in his body language and that of his teammates. Hes real good in coverage, great tackler, maybe not greatest hands, and hes all over the field. Almost always in right position. Nobody is perfect.

Hooker played real deep - often 20 yards deep- mostly in cover 1 or 3 with 2 elite college corners on either side of him. Hes got great speed. Given that he is going to make some flash highlight plays. It makes it easier. You can tell they designed defense last season for that. He should have had more.

He is a fine player and athlete dont get me wrong. I just dont see an elite player who out ranks other prospects at 3. I saw him blow coverages, make weak tackles and get beat more than I would like.


Are you still talking about Adams here?


No Hooker. Adams I think is a worthy top 10 pick if you dont like the QBs.


I mean we had the 7th ranked passing defense in the NFL last season, but the 27th ranked rushing defense... shouldn't we beef up our line? Or is Adams going to fix that for us?


Its a BA situation. Like a QB take him. Garrett there take him. Thomas there take him.

All gone or dont like the QBs its probably Adams or Lattimore. Lattimore I think is a lot more boom or bust than Adams. Not convinced on him. Talent out of his ears and corner does out rank safety in scarcity. Hmmm.

Maybe that DE fromTennessee to consider? I haven't seen him yet. Also have to revisit Allen.


I'm curious for your thoughts on Allen... I think that dude is perfect for what we need (run stuffing, 5T, kick inside to 3T or even NT in sub packages). He's also a wonderful hedge to Akiem Hicks if that dude wants to get PAID as a free agent in 2018.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allen and Adams are the same player.

They are both exceptional football players, physical leaders and productive players.


They are safe players who will improve your defense the day after they are drafted.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Allen and Adams are the same player.

They are both exceptional football players, physical leaders and productive players.


They are safe players who will improve your defense the day after they are drafted.


If that's the case then you always draft the defensive lineman / pass rusher.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Allen and Adams are the same player.

They are both exceptional football players, physical leaders and productive players.


They are safe players who will improve your defense the day after they are drafted.


If that's the case then you always draft the defensive lineman / pass rusher.


That would be the traditional thinking. But there are 2 factors that I think will come into play

1. Do you project Allen to be the same level of pass rusher in the pros

2. The Bears have had a crippling need at safety for a decade
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G08


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Allen and Adams are the same player.

They are both exceptional football players, physical leaders and productive players.


They are safe players who will improve your defense the day after they are drafted.


If that's the case then you always draft the defensive lineman / pass rusher.


That would be the traditional thinking. But there are 2 factors that I think will come into play

1. Do you project Allen to be the same level of pass rusher in the pros

2. The Bears have had a crippling need at safety for a decade


Our bigger issue right now is run defense, and I think Allen at 5T shores that up immediately. I think in sub packages he will be solid as a 3T and only get better with more strength and technique refinement (which already is elite, IMO).

Safeties don't hold that much weight in my football world, unless they have elite traits like Earl Thomas; the Patriots trotted out Patrick Chung and Devin McCourty, the Falcons Keanu Neal and Ricardo Allen.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Allen and Adams are the same player.

They are both exceptional football players, physical leaders and productive players.


They are safe players who will improve your defense the day after they are drafted.


If that's the case then you always draft the defensive lineman / pass rusher.


That would be the traditional thinking. But there are 2 factors that I think will come into play

1. Do you project Allen to be the same level of pass rusher in the pros

2. The Bears have had a crippling need at safety for a decade


Our bigger issue right now is run defense, and I think Allen at 5T shores that up immediately. I think in sub packages he will be solid as a 3T and only get better with more strength and technique refinement (which already is elite, IMO).

Safeties don't hold that much weight in my football world, unless they have elite traits like Earl Thomas; the Patriots trotted out Patrick Chung and Devin McCourty, the Falcons Keanu Neal and Ricardo Allen.


The importance of safeties goes up every year as people throw the ball more, put freakish TEs on the field and as teams force you to play the run from nickle.

Now I know what the numbers say, but we know that the Bears are significantly better in the front 7 than they are in the backend. We have more talent on the DL than we do at safety.

Allen or Adams, I am fine with either.
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Nads786


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our pass defense is terribly overrated. It may be ranked 7th but there are a lot of factors creating that rank. I think a question I have is will Adams be able to cover elite TEs? We have no one who can cover the middle right now.

I would prefer assuming no QBs DE>S>DT
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