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Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday
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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Butler as a RFA is worth more than the 32nd. But no way is he worth the 11th. I think a good compromise is next years #1. The Saints win 2 more games the pick is 16-20, they win 3 more the pick will be 20-26. A bottom ten finish will require a switch of 1sts
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lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
lancerman wrote:
ChazStandard wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
I'm laughing at the Patriots fans who think a 27 year old, almost 28, CB who's due a huge deal is going to get us the #11 overall pick.

Thats just insanity. Unless Mickey Loomis is the worst GM in the league, thats simply not happening. I think the list is very short on players that teams would move a top 13 pick for and I don't think Malcolm Butler is on that list.


I don't think anyone thinks it's likely - I think it's just the only way things are likely to proceed.

This. It's called seeing the forest for the trees. Butler isn't worth the 11 to the Saints, but the 32 isn't worth losing him this season. That Pat's have no incentive to take less when they are in a win-win scenario.

Incentive to not have a very unhappy CB on the team, and get a first round pick. I see the benefits of keeping Butler, but I'm also well aware he's not going to be pleased if we force him to play this year on a small 1 year deal.

Dudes pretty old, and hasn't exactly cashed out in his short NFL career. This could be his only shot at a big money deal.


Good! All the more incentive to ball out before his big contract year.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
lancerman wrote:
ChazStandard wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
I'm laughing at the Patriots fans who think a 27 year old, almost 28, CB who's due a huge deal is going to get us the #11 overall pick.

Thats just insanity. Unless Mickey Loomis is the worst GM in the league, thats simply not happening. I think the list is very short on players that teams would move a top 13 pick for and I don't think Malcolm Butler is on that list.


I don't think anyone thinks it's likely - I think it's just the only way things are likely to proceed.

This. It's called seeing the forest for the trees. Butler isn't worth the 11 to the Saints, but the 32 isn't worth losing him this season. That Pat's have no incentive to take less when they are in a win-win scenario.

Incentive to not have a very unhappy CB on the team, and get a first round pick. I see the benefits of keeping Butler, but I'm also well aware he's not going to be pleased if we force him to play this year on a small 1 year deal.

Dudes pretty old, and hasn't exactly cashed out in his short NFL career. This could be his only shot at a big money deal.


Good! All the more incentive to ball out before his big contract year.

Yeah. Which is why I don't see him being pleased, at all, if we refuse to deal him and he gets stuck on his cheap 1 year contract. Hopefully he's an exceptional guy and doesn't make noise, but...
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patsfan06


Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think a single Patriots fan is "hung up on the 11 pick."

There is just literally no reason to let Malcolm Butler leave. He's more valuable to the team who is trying to win another Super Bowl than a late first.

I'm not sure why people are getting mad at Patriots fans for not wanting to trade one of the more valuable members of our defense for meh picks? We are saying if they want Butler, the path to get him is very clear...the 11th pick. If they don't want to give up that pick, which would be pretty dumb, we are okay we that.

Then people are telling us how the media reports that Belichick hasn't even discussed a trade for the play are just a lie and we are all idiots if we disagree. It's absurd.

We want Butler in New England. Bill Belichick seems to want Butler in New England. That is why we are discussing the path where Malcolm Butler is not longer a Patriot. The offer sheet.
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patsfan06


Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
lancerman wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
lancerman wrote:
ChazStandard wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
I'm laughing at the Patriots fans who think a 27 year old, almost 28, CB who's due a huge deal is going to get us the #11 overall pick.

Thats just insanity. Unless Mickey Loomis is the worst GM in the league, thats simply not happening. I think the list is very short on players that teams would move a top 13 pick for and I don't think Malcolm Butler is on that list.


I don't think anyone thinks it's likely - I think it's just the only way things are likely to proceed.

This. It's called seeing the forest for the trees. Butler isn't worth the 11 to the Saints, but the 32 isn't worth losing him this season. That Pat's have no incentive to take less when they are in a win-win scenario.

Incentive to not have a very unhappy CB on the team, and get a first round pick. I see the benefits of keeping Butler, but I'm also well aware he's not going to be pleased if we force him to play this year on a small 1 year deal.

Dudes pretty old, and hasn't exactly cashed out in his short NFL career. This could be his only shot at a big money deal.


Good! All the more incentive to ball out before his big contract year.

Yeah. Which is why I don't see him being pleased, at all, if we refuse to deal him and he gets stuck on his cheap 1 year contract. Hopefully he's an exceptional guy and doesn't make noise, but...


Butler has been complaining about his pay for 2 seasons now and he hasn't done anything but play well on game day and not be a problem in the locker room.

He's not a unrestricted free agent. It's his agent's job to find a team that will tender him an offer sheet. If they can't find that, it's not the Patriots fault and Butler has never should to be that kind of guy who will take it out on the Patriots.
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saintsfan


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Nothing's changed but the change"
https://www.instagram.com/p/BR88Fnkjvg4/?taken-by=mac_bz
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saintsfan wrote:
"Nothing's changed but the change"
https://www.instagram.com/p/BR88Fnkjvg4/?taken-by=mac_bz


If he is making the reference I think he is making, someone paid him.
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
saintsfan wrote:
"Nothing's changed but the change"
https://www.instagram.com/p/BR88Fnkjvg4/?taken-by=mac_bz


If he is making the reference I think he is making, someone paid him.


Yeah, and if he literally means "nothings changed except how much money I'm making", that implies the Pats have paid him.

Which seems weird, they wouldn't normally extend a player who hasn't signed his tender.
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domepatrol91


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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChazStandard wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
saintsfan wrote:
"Nothing's changed but the change"
https://www.instagram.com/p/BR88Fnkjvg4/?taken-by=mac_bz


If he is making the reference I think he is making, someone paid him.


Yeah, and if he literally means "nothings changed except how much money I'm making", that implies the Pats have paid him.

Which seems weird, they wouldn't normally extend a player who hasn't signed his tender.
just weird? 3 days ago some people were acting like it would take an act of god Wink
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childofpudding


Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 897
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As expected

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/847094174146965508

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Crickett


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:
I think Butler as a RFA is worth more than the 32nd. But no way is he worth the 11th. I think a good compromise is next years #1. The Saints win 2 more games the pick is 16-20, they win 3 more the pick will be 20-26. A bottom ten finish will require a switch of 1sts


Aren't future #1's generally worth current year second rounders?
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
patman wrote:
I think Butler as a RFA is worth more than the 32nd. But no way is he worth the 11th. I think a good compromise is next years #1. The Saints win 2 more games the pick is 16-20, they win 3 more the pick will be 20-26. A bottom ten finish will require a switch of 1sts


Aren't future #1's generally worth current year second rounders?


Well.. only in the "one in the hand is worth two in the bush" sense. There's also the added uncertainty about *where exactly* a team would be drafting in that particular round. That uncertainty is a gamble, which brings down the value for risk-averse teams.
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saintsfan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
Crickett wrote:
patman wrote:
I think Butler as a RFA is worth more than the 32nd. But no way is he worth the 11th. I think a good compromise is next years #1. The Saints win 2 more games the pick is 16-20, they win 3 more the pick will be 20-26. A bottom ten finish will require a switch of 1sts


Aren't future #1's generally worth current year second rounders?


Well.. only in the "one in the hand is worth two in the bush" sense. There's also the added uncertainty about *where exactly* a team would be drafting in that particular round. That uncertainty is a gamble, which brings down the value for risk-averse teams.
The Pats are patient, and if its #32 this year or our first next year, the pick literally can't be lower than #32. Basically betting on the Saints not winning the Super Bowl...very Belichek move
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saintsfan wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
Crickett wrote:
patman wrote:
I think Butler as a RFA is worth more than the 32nd. But no way is he worth the 11th. I think a good compromise is next years #1. The Saints win 2 more games the pick is 16-20, they win 3 more the pick will be 20-26. A bottom ten finish will require a switch of 1sts


Aren't future #1's generally worth current year second rounders?


Well.. only in the "one in the hand is worth two in the bush" sense. There's also the added uncertainty about *where exactly* a team would be drafting in that particular round. That uncertainty is a gamble, which brings down the value for risk-averse teams.
The Pats are patient, and if its #32 this year or our first next year, the pick literally can't be lower than #32. Basically betting on the Saints not winning the Super Bowl...very Belichek move


That's a realistic scenario. Also the biggest thing is he gets to be that the Saints draft pick will be better than the 32 with his team favored to be in the Super Bowl and two teams in the Saints division being in the last two Super Bowls.
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patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
patman wrote:
I think Butler as a RFA is worth more than the 32nd. But no way is he worth the 11th. I think a good compromise is next years #1. The Saints win 2 more games the pick is 16-20, they win 3 more the pick will be 20-26. A bottom ten finish will require a switch of 1sts


Aren't future #1's generally worth current year second rounders?


No. And certainly not when one team is a SB contender and the other did not even make the playoffs. The pats would trade thier 2nd rd pick every year for a teams next years first. Even an average 8-8 team should not swap 32 places for a 1st this current year.

of course If you want the Browns/SF etc 2nd, the cost will be next years first unless you suck like the jets or similar.

In rounds 3 and later I find that your statement holds true. If a team wants a 3rd this year it will cost a "18 2nd IMO
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