You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
Dalton wrote:
If Denver can afford two #1 corners, so can the Pats.


Are you insinuating Gilmore is a #1 Corner? Ask any Bill fan if they think he's anything close to a #1. He's a slightly above average #2.


Slightly above average #2? Laughing

I'd love to hear your list of 40-45 guys who are better than him.

I don't think any Pats fan would argue that he's a top 10 CB (despite his flashes and possible untapped potential), but "slightly above average #2" is laughable.


40-45 guys? Are you saying every team has a #1 corner? Just because there is 32 teams doesn't mean there's 32 #1 caliber corners. An extremely flawed viewpoint. Gilmore is probably top 30, barely, but that doesn't make him a #1 corner.


So he would be good enough to be a #1 on a few teams but he's barely above average as a #2?

Laughing

I get what you're saying but if many teams don't have a "#1" by your definition, then the definition is flawed.


You understand exactly what I am saying. If Tebow is the 32nd starting QB in the NFL is he a #1 caliber QB..? No. Just because there is 32 top corner spots available definitelt does not mean there is 32 caliber #1 corners.


yes it says exactly that. Gilmore is a #1 corner, he may not have been a top ten corner playing for the bills. I guess in your thinking only probowl corners are #1 corners. Your trying to muddle the definition. They are all pros, pro bowl and top ten corners being referenced al the time. I never heard of a guy being a #1 corner as a definition of how good he is. I certainly heard it as a reference to a guy being the #1 corner on a team, but not a as a reference to league wide rankings.

I "hear"that Denver has two #1s corners as to mean that they have two guys who both would normally be the top guy on a team.

Your analogy to Tebow is wrong- While Tebow is/was a below average qb, he was a #1 qb on a playoff team. He was a #1. All Teams have #1 receivers, even if that receiver is not a probowl level performer. Not Gilmour's bigest detractor would say that he was an average CB, never mind a below average
performer.


You guys are pretty much arguing semantics.

Youre seemingly arguing what Gilmore is relative to other CBs in the league. CB is a premium position because there are very few truly great CBs in this league. Because of this, Gilmore is considered a number 1 corner almost by default.

BayRaider is clearly arguing the caliber of corner Gilmore is. While he might be a considered a better number 1 relative to other options in this league, that doesnt mean he ideally fits that role. I kind of view Gilmore (at this point) the way I viewed Ike Taylor when he was with the Steelers. Was he our number 1 guy? Yes.....was he an ideal number 1? Sometimes, but more often than not, I felt like he was a glorified CB2 who was forced into being the primary corner because of the lack of talent....and Im pretty sure thats what BayRaider is saying.

I see what both of you are saying, but I do agree with BayRaider that you typically want better play out of a top corner than what Gilmore has shown the better part of the last 2 years.

And no offense, but your logic in regards to Tebow/number 1 WRs is way off. Tebow may have been a starter, but he was far far far far....FAAAR from a number 1 CALIBER QB....he was more like a practice squad caliber CB who had a fluke run on a team that had no other options at QB. And just because all teams TECHNICALLY have a number 1 WR doesnt mean they are number 1 CALIBER. Same applies for any other position.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Calibucsfan


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 5569
Location: Los Angeles, Republic Of Kekistan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's rumors on twitter and other football sites that the "holdup" is the Pats want Saints 11th pick, not looking to get their 32nd back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11998
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't subscribe to the strict definition that the top corner on each team is a #1, by default. I think there is an implication that the guy deserves to be a #1. I think of the Ravens at wide receiver, and I don't know if there's been anyone I'd say was a true #1 since the turn of the century.

...but

Stephon Gilmore 2016:

92 targets, 50 receptions for 666 yards and 5 Tds, 3INTs in 12 games.

src: http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/11/why-bills-cb-stephon-gilmore-wasnt-as-bad-as-you-thought-in-2016/

More production than you want to see in 12 games, but opposing QB rating when target comes to 82.1. If he's taking on #1 assignments and knowing that Rex definitely puts his corners in difficult spots, that's.. "fine". Off the numbers that could be like the 20th best among each team's top corner and just above the threshold of #1 corner.

That's just talking about coverage, which is his primary role. I don't like him as a player because he's embarrassingly soft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 15342
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like the old franchise QB debate. To some it means a top guy and to others it just mean the guy starting that the team doesn't have immediate plans to upgrade.
_________________
NudeTayne wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
*Zayne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DingoLadd


Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Posts: 272
Location: MD.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephon Gilmore isn't as good as Marcus Peters that's for sure.
_________________
I'm a San Diego(Now LA but bleep that) Chargers fan.

Long live Phillip Rivers and his constant carrying of this god awful team.

Also go (South Carolina) Charleston Dingoes. Looking for a co-owner for a fantasy team so PM me please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 8685
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
It's like the old franchise QB debate. To some it means a top guy and to others it just mean the guy starting that the team doesn't have immediate plans to upgrade.


I think that's where the term "elite" comes in. Brady/Rodgers/Brees are elite. Flacco, Eli, Dalton, Stafford are franchise QB's.
_________________
Signature
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 8685
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
There's rumors on twitter and other football sites that the "holdup" is the Pats want Saints 11th pick, not looking to get their 32nd back.


And there's really no reason not to hold it up for that. In all reality Butler is most likely more valuable than whoever they would pull at 32. Make the Saints pay the 11 or keep Butler. You come out with something good no matter what.

Sometimes having a player for one more year is more important than rushing to get some picks for him because he might be gone soon. In this case, the Patriots have more to gain keeping him. Make the Saints reach if they want him that bad. The price is set with the tender, take it or leave it.
_________________
Signature
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 3508
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No chance Saints give up 11 so this likely just ends up as a waste of everyones time Laughing
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FrenchWuDat


Joined: 12 Mar 2015
Posts: 444
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
There's rumors on twitter and other football sites that the "holdup" is the Pats want Saints 11th pick, not looking to get their 32nd back.

Not really a rumor, just Lombardi (?) explaining the situation.

And obviously, it is not happening.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheChancellor


Joined: 13 Feb 2017
Posts: 216
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
No chance Saints give up 11 so this likely just ends up as a waste of everyones time Laughing


Yeah, it would be shocking if they actually did that.
_________________

Quote:
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 8631
Location: Toronto, CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
No chance Saints give up 11 so this likely just ends up as a waste of everyones time Laughing


Hopefully ... but I have my doubts.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SWATcha


Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 1978
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
No chance Saints give up 11 so this likely just ends up as a waste of everyones time Laughing


If the Saints are dumb enough to give up #11........I may have to boycott them until Loomis and Payton are fired Mad
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
domepatrol91


Moderator
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 7929
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
There's rumors on twitter and other football sites that the "holdup" is the Pats want Saints 11th pick, not looking to get their 32nd back.
according to pats fans in the Saints forum, BB won't even discuss a trade for Butler. They're denying that talks are even happening.

So there's that too. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 12705
Location: Boston MA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
There's rumors on twitter and other football sites that the "holdup" is the Pats want Saints 11th pick, not looking to get their 32nd back.
according to pats fans in the Saints forum, BB won't even discuss a trade for Butler. They're denying that talks are even happening.

So there's that too. Laughing


whose doing that?
_________________

Sigs-Taking Requests
2016 Adpot-A-Patriot: Jimmy Garropolo
70% 496yds 4 TD 0 INT 117.1 PR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
domepatrol91


Moderator
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 7929
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
There's rumors on twitter and other football sites that the "holdup" is the Pats want Saints 11th pick, not looking to get their 32nd back.
according to pats fans in the Saints forum, BB won't even discuss a trade for Butler. They're denying that talks are even happening.

So there's that too. Laughing


whose doing that?
check the last couple pages of our general off-season discussion thread.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=585239&start=375
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
Page 11 of 15

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group