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Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday
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Calibucsfan


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 5536
Location: Los Angeles, Republic Of Kekistan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday Reply with quote

Looks like Pats will get their 32nd pick back.
A lot of people suspected over in NOLA that the the original trade was supposed to be Cooks for Butler, the reason they sent Cooks early is to avoid paying him a roster bonus which was due like 2-3 days after the trade.

Quote:
@brettmartel

#Saints coach Sean Payton to AP: #Patriots RFA Malcom Butler visiting New Orleans on Thursday.
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who has out-leveraged themselves more this offseason: Butler or AP?
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
Who has out-leveraged themselves more this offseason: Butler or AP?


If Butler gets paid by NO, not him. And really, what leverage did he have to begin? Being an RFA stinks in that league.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd give it about 0% chance that we get 32 back. They likely agree on a contract, Butler signs his tender and we trade him for the 42nd overall.

I'd be more than happy with that.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Saints just sign Butler. They would give up the 11th pick. They are not going to do that. Probably exploring a trade with the Pats for lesser compensation.

Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.


Laughing

What? Butler is a top 5 corner..
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MookieMonster


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
If the Saints just sign Butler. They would give up the 11th pick. They are not going to do that. Probably exploring a trade with the Pats for lesser compensation.

Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.

Where do you get your coverage statistics? Been trying to find a site ever since PFF raised the price for their stats.
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MookieMonster


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.


Laughing

What? Butler is a top 5 corner..

He's another guy who refuses to take statistics into context. Butler allowed yardage, but he was left on an island with top tier WRs pretty often and often did a good job.

I tried to have this discussion with him before but he kept telling me to find his old argument and stating Butler allowed a lot of yards.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.


Laughing

What? Butler is a top 5 corner..

He's another guy who refuses to take statistics into context. Butler allowed yardage, but he was left on an island with top tier WRs pretty often and often did a good job.

I tried to have this discussion with him before but he kept telling me to find his old argument and stating Butler allowed a lot of yards.


Allowed a lot of yards AND allowed poor efficiency per target. Don't forget the second part.

I'm perfectly willing to listen to context. The context you are referring to is that Butler lines up against #1's a ton and gets little help right? Even if I assume that it is true for Butler moreseo than any other #1 CB in the league, which I am willing to assume, it doesn't explain the gap of the better #1 corners allowing so much less production and all of them allowing sub 75 qb ratings when targeted. So there is no case for Butler being top 10 that year. What's wrong with my logic? Please share.

Pats fans saying he had a "great" season in 2015 when he allowed 940 yards and 7 TD with 2 ints for a 95.7 QBR when targeted. I mean, rookie Marcus Peters got a lot of heat for giving up 900-something yards that same year, but at least he had 8 picks. Please give me all the context to explain that. Give me any single scenario where that makes sense. I'd love to hear it. No other cornerback lines up against #1's? Bill Belichick cut safeties anytime they came with the same 2/3's of the field that Butler was on?
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MookieMonster


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What site do you use to find these statistics?
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1ForTheThumb


Joined: 06 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.


Laughing

What? Butler is a top 5 corner..


This guy tries to trash Butler every single situation he can. He's clearly never watched him play. I wouldn't say he's a top 5, but he's definitely top 10. No doubt about that.

Why would the Patriots take just 42 in return? They can literally let the Saints sign an offer sheet, and get #11 in return. The teams could work out a trade if Butler signs his tender, but the Patriots would be stupid not to get a haul close to the worth of #11 overall. Therefore it would take 32 +
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MookieMonster


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1ForTheThumb wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.


Laughing

What? Butler is a top 5 corner..


This guy tries to trash Butler every single situation he can. He's clearly never watched him play. I wouldn't say he's a top 5, but he's definitely top 10. No doubt about that.

Why would the Patriots take just 42 in return? They can literally let the Saints sign an offer sheet, and get #11 in return. The teams could work out a trade if Butler signs his tender, but the Patriots would be stupid not to get a haul close to the worth of #11 overall. Therefore it would take 32 +

Because the Saints obviously aren't going to sign him to an offer sheet. Butler isn't worth anywhere near the value of the 11th pick.

An early 2nd is very fair value for a 27 year old CB, whos a RFA.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
What site do you use to find these statistics?


Google. Butler's 2015 numbers are cited as roughly the same across the web. 2016 numbers are hard to find.. there are partial breakdowns thorugh x weeks I've found, but not a complete guide.

The only stat I've mentioned in this thread is Butler's 2015 production allowed which you can find pretty consistently reported (some discrepancy in yards, but I took the numbers that made Butler look best):

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/the_blitz/2016/01/defensive_analytics_compiling_the_patriots_defensive_stats_from
http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/6/4/11829360/new-england-patriots-2016-roster-breakdown-21-cb-malcolm-butler
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/07/how_jets_darrelle_revis_compared_to_other_top_corn.html
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1ForTheThumb wrote:
This guy tries to trash Butler every single situation he can. He's clearly never watched him play. I wouldn't say he's a top 5, but he's definitely top 10. No doubt about that.


Find a single post where I seriously trash Butler in my post history, and you can pick my signature until week 1 kickoff.
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huzzah
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1ForTheThumb


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
1ForTheThumb wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
Anyway, IDK why they are so eager to add a corner who gives up among the most production of any secondary player in the league to a defense that already has no problem giving up a ton of production.


Laughing

What? Butler is a top 5 corner..


This guy tries to trash Butler every single situation he can. He's clearly never watched him play. I wouldn't say he's a top 5, but he's definitely top 10. No doubt about that.

Why would the Patriots take just 42 in return? They can literally let the Saints sign an offer sheet, and get #11 in return. The teams could work out a trade if Butler signs his tender, but the Patriots would be stupid not to get a haul close to the worth of #11 overall. Therefore it would take 32 +

Because the Saints obviously aren't going to sign him to an offer sheet. Butler isn't worth anywhere near the value of the 11th pick.

An early 2nd is very fair value for a 27 year old CB, whos a RFA.


So then the Pats let him play out the year at 4 million, he walks, and they get a comp pick.
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