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With the 3rd pick in the draft
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I am in an e-mail mock draft with some buddies and it has come up with

1[1] Myles Garrett
1[2] Solomon Thomas

I have been told to shove it on the trade front.


If no trade option is allowed then Jonathan Allen.

Though in real life this would be the perfect scenario for the Bears to trade down a few spots for a team that wants Trubisky. cough Jets cough.

And they could still possibly end up with Allen at #6 or one of Hooker or Adams. That'd be ideal.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6857
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If JAX and TEN don't need QBs... why would the Jets want to trade up with us?
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched Solomon Thomas and he is a stud with upside because of his youth. I would definitely strongly consider him at 3 if there.

Just watched Malik Hooker and I am underwhelmed. I don't know what tape some of you guys and media scouts are watching. I'm not personally seeing an all pro player.

The games I saw he is above average because of his speed and athleticism, but nothing special as a player all things considered on tape (scheme, teammates etc.).

I would love an all pro FS at 3, but I don't want him at 3 after watching him. Sorry just my opinion.

Watched Trubisky other day. He reminds me of Favre. Very boom or bust player with immense talent. Huge risk, but huge upside. Looks like he will be a turnover machine in early NFL play. I don't think I take him at 3 without a lot of thought and a lot more information. One of those guys whose future depends on who drafts him and how well they develop him.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6857
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
Just watched Solomon Thomas and he is a stud with upside because of his youth. I would definitely strongly consider him at 3 if there.

Just watched Malik Hooker and I am underwhelmed. I don't know what tape some of you guys and media scouts are watching. I'm not personally seeing an all pro player.

The games I saw he is above average because of his speed and athleticism, but nothing special as a player all things considered on tape (scheme, teammates etc.).

I would love an all pro FS at 3, but I don't want him at 3 after watching him. Sorry just my opinion.

Watched Trubisky other day. He reminds me of Favre. Very boom or bust player with immense talent. Huge risk, but huge upside. Looks like he will be a turnover machine in early NFL play. I don't think I take him at 3 without a lot of thought and a lot more information. One of those guys whose future depends on who drafts him and how well they develop him.


Watch Jonathan Allen yet?
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
Just watched Solomon Thomas and he is a stud with upside because of his youth. I would definitely strongly consider him at 3 if there.

Just watched Malik Hooker and I am underwhelmed. I don't know what tape some of you guys and media scouts are watching. I'm not personally seeing an all pro player.

The games I saw he is above average because of his speed and athleticism, but nothing special as a player all things considered on tape (scheme, teammates etc.).

I would love an all pro FS at 3, but I don't want him at 3 after watching him. Sorry just my opinion.

Watched Trubisky other day. He reminds me of Favre. Very boom or bust player with immense talent. Huge risk, but huge upside. Looks like he will be a turnover machine in early NFL play. I don't think I take him at 3 without a lot of thought and a lot more information. One of those guys whose future depends on who drafts him and how well they develop him.


Watch Jonathan Allen yet?


Not yet. I did months ago during season and I thought then he was good, but over rated. I will revisit him shortly.

Just watched Jamal Adams. He's a player. Can't find him at start of play? Just watch the ball and you will.

I wouldn't be upset if Bears ended up with that guy. Very safe pick.

Not Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu, but he is Sean Dawkins esque. He'll be a 10 year starter and be a good one.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If JAX and TEN don't need QBs... why would the Jets want to trade up with us?


Maybe in fear that another team such as Cleveland might want to trade up with the Bears or Jax/Ten in order to take a QB knowing the Jets also need a QB?

It wouldn't be the first time a team made such a move to trade up for a player they want.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
G08 wrote:
dll2000 wrote:
Just watched Solomon Thomas and he is a stud with upside because of his youth. I would definitely strongly consider him at 3 if there.

Just watched Malik Hooker and I am underwhelmed. I don't know what tape some of you guys and media scouts are watching. I'm not personally seeing an all pro player.

The games I saw he is above average because of his speed and athleticism, but nothing special as a player all things considered on tape (scheme, teammates etc.).

I would love an all pro FS at 3, but I don't want him at 3 after watching him. Sorry just my opinion.

Watched Trubisky other day. He reminds me of Favre. Very boom or bust player with immense talent. Huge risk, but huge upside. Looks like he will be a turnover machine in early NFL play. I don't think I take him at 3 without a lot of thought and a lot more information. One of those guys whose future depends on who drafts him and how well they develop him.


Watch Jonathan Allen yet?


Not yet. I did months ago during season and I thought then he was good, but over rated. I will revisit him shortly.

Just watched Jamal Adams. He's a player. Can't find him at start of play? Just watch the ball and you will.

I wouldn't be upset if Bears ended up with that guy. Very safe pick.

Not Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu, but he is Sean Dawkins esque. He'll be a 10 year starter and be a good one.


People are saying he is a slightly better version of Landon Collins. If that's the case then you can't go wrong.
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Chicago is looking for its Qb of future in this draft they have to keep following in mind.

Their QB could go at 1, 2, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 20, 23, 25, 27, 33, 34 or 35. All of those teams have a QB need because they don't have one, age or they don't really like theirs.

Cleveland has 3 of those picks and San Fran has 2.

Bears draft 3 and 36.

Of those I think 49ers are players at 2. Jets are a real player at 6, Bills at 10, Browns at 12, Cards at 13, Texans at 25, Browns at 33 and 49ers at 34.

I think there is no way zero QBs are taken before Bears draft at 36.

I think Trubisky is gone for sure. I don't know about others.

So if Trubisky is your man (and I think he is no. 1 QB prospect this year for GMs)- I think you have to bite the bullet and take him at 3 (if 49ers pass).

I think the odds of him making it past 10 are just not good. And get worse with Cleveland at 12 and Cards at 13.

Now if you are targeting Kizer, Watson or Mahomes I think the odds are decent your guy will be there at 36. You may want to gamble that he falls.

If they go best player available they aren't getting a QB in first 2 rounds.
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:

People are saying he is a slightly better version of Landon Collins. If that's the case then you can't go wrong.


He looks like a very safe pick to me. Very low bust factor.
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to consider. Browns are using computer metrics.

Which means they are inputting factors into a computer and making personnel decisions based on that.

Height, speed, broad jump, starts, hand size, arm length, system, whatever they deem indicative over a large enough statistical sample.

I am sure number of starts is in the QB metric with a bad correlation. So that may knock Trubisky down the Browns board if they stay true to their system.

Also, Kizer.
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched Pat Mahomes.

I'll pass thank you.

Doesn't have great delivery. Doesn't throw with anticipation (not really his offense - so he can be excused). Doesn't move particularly great in pocket. Ball seems to hang a bit. Not consistent.

I don't see it happening for him in NFL.
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51to54


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1795
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
Watched Pat Mahomes.

I'll pass thank you.

Doesn't have great delivery. Doesn't throw with anticipation (not really his offense - so he can be excused). Doesn't move particularly great in pocket. Ball seems to hang a bit. Not consistent.

I don't see it happening for him in NFL.

Did you find some vids that had every play of his per game(s) or a highlights type collection?

Some highlights vids show a quick arm with snap, even when moving to his left, good deep ball, good placement, great mobility and tends to keep his eyes downfield when doing so, good touch, and it looks like he has very good field vision which I believe you can't teach.

There are lots of guys in the NFL with good technique, but little arm or vision or mobility. My concern about the highlights vids is that if he is 'Cutler like' then for every great highlight vid play there is a terrible lowlight vid play too.

Based on his highlight vids, If 3 or more QB's come off in the first round I'd take him with our second round pick and develop him while Glennon plays. If only 1 or 2 QB's are taken then maybe you can wait until the 3rd round pick.

I'm somewhat surprised about the 'doesn't move well in the pocket'comment. I can agree that he did not work the pocket with subtle movement like some experienced pros, but he doesn't have to with his elite mobility in order to buy time in and out of the pocket. I saw him make several Russell Wilson like plays.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of me wonders if the Bears should just nut up, draft Watson, stash him for a year and then actually have a real option in 2018?

The 3rd pick is not going to have a huge impact on 2017. Jamal Adams or John Allen are not the difference between 6-10 and 10-6.
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3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6857
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Part of me wonders if the Bears should just nut up, draft Watson, stash him for a year and then actually have a real option in 2018?

The 3rd pick is not going to have a huge impact on 2017. Jamal Adams or John Allen are not the difference between 6-10 and 10-6.


I think the point is with this being such an awesome defensive draft and us having needs everywhere, we have to go defense with our first 3 picks (IMO).

5T/3T

CB (deep class)

S (deep class)

EDGE (deep class)

Plus, next year in FA Garoppolo likely becomes a FA, as does Kirk Cousins.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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51to54


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1795
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Part of me wonders if the Bears should just nut up, draft Watson, stash him for a year and then actually have a real option in 2018?

The 3rd pick is not going to have a huge impact on 2017. Jamal Adams or John Allen are not the difference between 6-10 and 10-6.


I think the point is with this being such an awesome defensive draft and us having needs everywhere, we have to go defense with our first 3 picks (IMO).

5T/3T

CB (deep class)

S (deep class)

EDGE (deep class)

Plus, next year in FA Garoppolo likely becomes a FA, as does Kirk Cousins.

Garoppolo would probably still have as little as NFL film as he does now, but Cousins would have plenty more. If you are going to pay a guy like an NFL franchise QB at least this way you know what you are paying to get. Plus, there appears to be little love lost between Cousins and the Washington GM.

I'd be shocked that any QB the Bears think is worthy of the 3rd overall will be only have 2nd or 3rd round grades from all the other NFL teams so if they think any of these QB's is the 'guy' then I have no problem with drafting him 3rd overall. Especially, since we did not trade this year's first and second and next year's first to move up to get him.
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