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What should the Pats do with Malcolm Butler?
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Tommy5Rings


Joined: 16 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
patsfan06 wrote:
I am 100% for Malcolm Butler trying to get as much money as possible. He's done the improbable by going from an UDFA to a bonafide NFL star. He deserves to be paid.

That being said, he really isn't in a position to pass up between $500K and $1.5M by sitting out games this year as a guy who has only made $1.53M so far in his career as someone who is already 27.

In a situation where the choice is sit out games or play the season for $3.9M when you think you are worth $13M per year...Butler should do what he thinks is best for himself and his future. I personally think best would be playing 16 games on the low salary, balling out, proving you are real star by winning a 3rd Super Bowl and making $75M next year (okay that might be a little steep but point stands).

Patriots on the other hand should make no moves until something changes with Butler/another team tenders him an offer sheet.


If I'm the Pats, I would gladly take 32 and NO's second for Butler in lieu of #11. All day.


I would be surprised if that offer is on the table. As it stands now we gave up our 32 for a WR we didn't need who will be looking for a big deal next year. I don't agree that losing a first round pick in this scenario is good.

Now maybe if Butler stays, and maybe if Butler and Cooks help secure another SB then I would agree, otherwise not.


Just out of my own curiosity, what are you expecting the Saints to offer for Butler?

None of us know for sure, but I would have to imagine 32 is in the conversation
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
patsfan06 wrote:
I am 100% for Malcolm Butler trying to get as much money as possible. He's done the improbable by going from an UDFA to a bonafide NFL star. He deserves to be paid.

That being said, he really isn't in a position to pass up between $500K and $1.5M by sitting out games this year as a guy who has only made $1.53M so far in his career as someone who is already 27.

In a situation where the choice is sit out games or play the season for $3.9M when you think you are worth $13M per year...Butler should do what he thinks is best for himself and his future. I personally think best would be playing 16 games on the low salary, balling out, proving you are real star by winning a 3rd Super Bowl and making $75M next year (okay that might be a little steep but point stands).

Patriots on the other hand should make no moves until something changes with Butler/another team tenders him an offer sheet.


If I'm the Pats, I would gladly take 32 and NO's second for Butler in lieu of #11. All day.


I would be surprised if that offer is on the table. As it stands now we gave up our 32 for a WR we didn't need who will be looking for a big deal next year. I don't agree that losing a first round pick in this scenario is good.

Now maybe if Butler stays, and maybe if Butler and Cooks help secure another SB then I would agree, otherwise not.


Just out of my own curiosity, what are you expecting the Saints to offer for Butler?

None of us know for sure, but I would have to imagine 32 is in the conversation


You stated the Saints #32 and their second which I think is not on the table. If anything I think for them it's 32 or bust in which case we got a WR for one year we do not need and lose a CB that helped win two SBs. I know we could lose him next year and likely will but his replacements is in place. If lost Butler and gain the 32 back I would be okay. As it stands now we don't make a selection until round three, essentially missing out on some quality talent.
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Tommy5Rings


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
patsfan06 wrote:
I am 100% for Malcolm Butler trying to get as much money as possible. He's done the improbable by going from an UDFA to a bonafide NFL star. He deserves to be paid.

That being said, he really isn't in a position to pass up between $500K and $1.5M by sitting out games this year as a guy who has only made $1.53M so far in his career as someone who is already 27.

In a situation where the choice is sit out games or play the season for $3.9M when you think you are worth $13M per year...Butler should do what he thinks is best for himself and his future. I personally think best would be playing 16 games on the low salary, balling out, proving you are real star by winning a 3rd Super Bowl and making $75M next year (okay that might be a little steep but point stands).

Patriots on the other hand should make no moves until something changes with Butler/another team tenders him an offer sheet.


If I'm the Pats, I would gladly take 32 and NO's second for Butler in lieu of #11. All day.


I would be surprised if that offer is on the table. As it stands now we gave up our 32 for a WR we didn't need who will be looking for a big deal next year. I don't agree that losing a first round pick in this scenario is good.

Now maybe if Butler stays, and maybe if Butler and Cooks help secure another SB then I would agree, otherwise not.


Just out of my own curiosity, what are you expecting the Saints to offer for Butler?

None of us know for sure, but I would have to imagine 32 is in the conversation


You stated the Saints #32 and their second which I think is not on the table. If anything I think for them it's 32 or bust in which case we got a WR for one year we do not need and lose a CB that helped win two SBs. I know we could lose him next year and likely will but his replacements is in place. If lost Butler and gain the 32 back I would be okay. As it stands now we don't make a selection until round three, essentially missing out on some quality talent.


You're ignoring the fact that Edelman and Amendola are aging and that Gronk is one more back injury from being done.

Cooks and Mitchell are likely going to be the foundation for the next wave of receivers, so while it doesn't fill an immediate need, it certainly does down the line.

Also, if you think we gave up #32 for just one year of Cooks, you cray cray.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
patsfan06 wrote:
I am 100% for Malcolm Butler trying to get as much money as possible. He's done the improbable by going from an UDFA to a bonafide NFL star. He deserves to be paid.

That being said, he really isn't in a position to pass up between $500K and $1.5M by sitting out games this year as a guy who has only made $1.53M so far in his career as someone who is already 27.

In a situation where the choice is sit out games or play the season for $3.9M when you think you are worth $13M per year...Butler should do what he thinks is best for himself and his future. I personally think best would be playing 16 games on the low salary, balling out, proving you are real star by winning a 3rd Super Bowl and making $75M next year (okay that might be a little steep but point stands).

Patriots on the other hand should make no moves until something changes with Butler/another team tenders him an offer sheet.


If I'm the Pats, I would gladly take 32 and NO's second for Butler in lieu of #11. All day.


I would be surprised if that offer is on the table. As it stands now we gave up our 32 for a WR we didn't need who will be looking for a big deal next year. I don't agree that losing a first round pick in this scenario is good.

Now maybe if Butler stays, and maybe if Butler and Cooks help secure another SB then I would agree, otherwise not.


Just out of my own curiosity, what are you expecting the Saints to offer for Butler?

None of us know for sure, but I would have to imagine 32 is in the conversation


You stated the Saints #32 and their second which I think is not on the table. If anything I think for them it's 32 or bust in which case we got a WR for one year we do not need and lose a CB that helped win two SBs. I know we could lose him next year and likely will but his replacements is in place. If lost Butler and gain the 32 back I would be okay. As it stands now we don't make a selection until round three, essentially missing out on some quality talent.


You're ignoring the fact that Edelman and Amendola are aging and that Gronk is one more back injury from being done.

Cooks and Mitchell are likely going to be the foundation for the next wave of receivers, so while it doesn't fill an immediate need, it certainly does down the line.

Also, if you think we gave up #32 for just one year of Cooks, you cray cray.


No I am not ignoring that at all. In fact I will be surprised if Cooks is back next year.
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Tommy5Rings


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
patsfan06 wrote:
I am 100% for Malcolm Butler trying to get as much money as possible. He's done the improbable by going from an UDFA to a bonafide NFL star. He deserves to be paid.

That being said, he really isn't in a position to pass up between $500K and $1.5M by sitting out games this year as a guy who has only made $1.53M so far in his career as someone who is already 27.

In a situation where the choice is sit out games or play the season for $3.9M when you think you are worth $13M per year...Butler should do what he thinks is best for himself and his future. I personally think best would be playing 16 games on the low salary, balling out, proving you are real star by winning a 3rd Super Bowl and making $75M next year (okay that might be a little steep but point stands).

Patriots on the other hand should make no moves until something changes with Butler/another team tenders him an offer sheet.


If I'm the Pats, I would gladly take 32 and NO's second for Butler in lieu of #11. All day.


I would be surprised if that offer is on the table. As it stands now we gave up our 32 for a WR we didn't need who will be looking for a big deal next year. I don't agree that losing a first round pick in this scenario is good.

Now maybe if Butler stays, and maybe if Butler and Cooks help secure another SB then I would agree, otherwise not.


Just out of my own curiosity, what are you expecting the Saints to offer for Butler?

None of us know for sure, but I would have to imagine 32 is in the conversation


You stated the Saints #32 and their second which I think is not on the table. If anything I think for them it's 32 or bust in which case we got a WR for one year we do not need and lose a CB that helped win two SBs. I know we could lose him next year and likely will but his replacements is in place. If lost Butler and gain the 32 back I would be okay. As it stands now we don't make a selection until round three, essentially missing out on some quality talent.


You're ignoring the fact that Edelman and Amendola are aging and that Gronk is one more back injury from being done.

Cooks and Mitchell are likely going to be the foundation for the next wave of receivers, so while it doesn't fill an immediate need, it certainly does down the line.

Also, if you think we gave up #32 for just one year of Cooks, you cray cray.


No I am not ignoring that at all. In fact I will be surprised if Cooks is back next year.


Well they can always just exercise his 5th year option to keep him.

Why do you think they wouldn't resign him? It seems to make a lot of sense with aging receivers and spending a high draft choice to get him
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
patsfan06 wrote:
I am 100% for Malcolm Butler trying to get as much money as possible. He's done the improbable by going from an UDFA to a bonafide NFL star. He deserves to be paid.

That being said, he really isn't in a position to pass up between $500K and $1.5M by sitting out games this year as a guy who has only made $1.53M so far in his career as someone who is already 27.

In a situation where the choice is sit out games or play the season for $3.9M when you think you are worth $13M per year...Butler should do what he thinks is best for himself and his future. I personally think best would be playing 16 games on the low salary, balling out, proving you are real star by winning a 3rd Super Bowl and making $75M next year (okay that might be a little steep but point stands).

Patriots on the other hand should make no moves until something changes with Butler/another team tenders him an offer sheet.


If I'm the Pats, I would gladly take 32 and NO's second for Butler in lieu of #11. All day.


I would be surprised if that offer is on the table. As it stands now we gave up our 32 for a WR we didn't need who will be looking for a big deal next year. I don't agree that losing a first round pick in this scenario is good.

Now maybe if Butler stays, and maybe if Butler and Cooks help secure another SB then I would agree, otherwise not.


Just out of my own curiosity, what are you expecting the Saints to offer for Butler?

None of us know for sure, but I would have to imagine 32 is in the conversation


You stated the Saints #32 and their second which I think is not on the table. If anything I think for them it's 32 or bust in which case we got a WR for one year we do not need and lose a CB that helped win two SBs. I know we could lose him next year and likely will but his replacements is in place. If lost Butler and gain the 32 back I would be okay. As it stands now we don't make a selection until round three, essentially missing out on some quality talent.


You're ignoring the fact that Edelman and Amendola are aging and that Gronk is one more back injury from being done.

Cooks and Mitchell are likely going to be the foundation for the next wave of receivers, so while it doesn't fill an immediate need, it certainly does down the line.

Also, if you think we gave up #32 for just one year of Cooks, you cray cray.


No I am not ignoring that at all. In fact I will be surprised if Cooks is back next year.


Well they can always just exercise his 5th year option to keep him.

Why do you think they wouldn't resign him? It seems to make a lot of sense with aging receivers and spending a high draft choice to get him


Because its all about winning now in NE about getting TB another ring or two and he helps those chances. That is why I think he is here, as to why he may not stay, he will want a lot of money a big contract as will Jimmy if he is to stay and be the future, I think the teams priority may be retaining a QB they feel can replace TB.
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
Butler saying 'nothing changed but the change" on his Instagram. He is saying he just got paid? Pats extension finally offered? Exclamation


I saw that post - was expecting some announcement to follow - but it's been days and nothing.

If there were some news...why would there be a delay in releasing it?
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would the Pats spend a 1st round pick on Cooks and not re-sign him? That would be crazy and incredibly unBelichickian

Obviously, if he sucks in the system, gets hurt or has insane demands, he'll be here two years (5th year option exercised) and then leave. But trading a 1st round pick for a player tells me that Belichck thinks Cooks is a long term keeper. With Amendola likely gone before opening day and Edelman getting old and incredibly beat up, there will be both money and opportunity for Cooks in 2019 and beyond. Especially since it looks like Gronk will possibly (IMO probably) be gone by then as well.

I think Cooks was brought in with the hope that he's a major focal point of the offense for 5-6 years and I'd be shocked if they didn't make every effort to keep him long term (again, assuming he fits the system and stays healthy). Belichick has no problem paying for premium talent or extending his key offensive players.

Trading a 1st round pick, and 5 years of controlled value, for a player tells us a lot about how highly Belichick thinks of Cooks. And generally, when Belichick thinks very highly of a guy's fit in the scheme or the scarcity of that guy's skill set, that guy sticks around unless he's unreasonable. Some semi-recent examples, other than the Gronkowski deal, would be the Hernandez extension and the lengths the team went through to keep Mankins (and the dumptruck of money they gave him). People like to point to Deion Branch or Welker and say "aha! the Pats don't pay their top WR's" but in reality, Branch was way overvaluing himself and didn't have an elite skillset and Welker had both personality and long term durability questions, along with a skillset which the Pats had an external (Amendola) and internal (an unsigned Edelman) replacements. If Cooks is as good in New England as he was with the Saints, he will be more in the Hernandez/Gronkowski/Mankins category than the Branch category.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Why would the Pats spend a 1st round pick on Cooks and not re-sign him? That would be crazy and incredibly unBelichickian

Obviously, if he sucks in the system, gets hurt or has insane demands, he'll be here two years (5th year option exercised) and then leave. But trading a 1st round pick for a player tells me that Belichck thinks Cooks is a long term keeper. With Amendola likely gone before opening day and Edelman getting old and incredibly beat up, there will be both money and opportunity for Cooks in 2019 and beyond. Especially since it looks like Gronk will possibly (IMO probably) be gone by then as well.

I think Cooks was brought in with the hope that he's a major focal point of the offense for 5-6 years and I'd be shocked if they didn't make every effort to keep him long term (again, assuming he fits the system and stays healthy). Belichick has no problem paying for premium talent or extending his key offensive players.

Trading a 1st round pick, and 5 years of controlled value, for a player tells us a lot about how highly Belichick thinks of Cooks. And generally, when Belichick thinks very highly of a guy's fit in the scheme or the scarcity of that guy's skill set, that guy sticks around unless he's unreasonable. Some semi-recent examples, other than the Gronkowski deal, would be the Hernandez extension and the lengths the team went through to keep Mankins (and the dumptruck of money they gave him). People like to point to Deion Branch or Welker and say "aha! the Pats don't pay their top WR's" but in reality, Branch was way overvaluing himself and didn't have an elite skillset and Welker had both personality and long term durability questions, along with a skillset which the Pats had an external (Amendola) and internal (an unsigned Edelman) replacements. If Cooks is as good in New England as he was with the Saints, he will be more in the Hernandez/Gronkowski/Mankins category than the Branch category.


As I said I think he was brought in to try and win another SB now while TB still has it. I also think this being his second and most important contract as it refers to his financial future, he will command a lot of money, money the Pats may not be willing to give him. The Pats have cut ties with players in the past for the same reason, they will not stranglehold the team for one player. Then if you throw in the Jimmy G factor the team may be forced to make a choice, 1. Franchise QB or 2. High end WR.

I am not saying he will not be here only that I think he may not.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saints won't give up 11th pick, I think we all knew that was asking to much.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000796051/article/payton-saints-wont-give-up-no-11-for-malcolm-butler
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patsfan06


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Saints won't give up 11th pick, I think we all knew that was asking to much.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000796051/article/payton-saints-wont-give-up-no-11-for-malcolm-butler


Great news.

Now lets get MB to sign the tender and go win a SB.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan06 wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Saints won't give up 11th pick, I think we all knew that was asking to much.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000796051/article/payton-saints-wont-give-up-no-11-for-malcolm-butler


Great news.

Now lets get MB to sign the tender and go win a SB.


I think that was the intent all along. Load up on talent they can unload later and try to win TB another SB. It stinks not having a pick until round three but if that leads to another SB then that is the price we pay.

I said before Cooks may not be resigned it all depends on him, he will want a big pay day and I feel Jimmy G will take priority. I suspect the will slap the tag on Jimmy next year and try to work a deal to retain him, that may lead to a lose elsewhere. Butler will be gone next year which is why the inked Gilmore this year, and I suspect the have someone ready to step in where Ryan was. This years moves are very much about another SB run.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Butler finally signed his tender. Not really a big deal since the deadline is friday anyways, but we can finally look for a resolution here.
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biggbrd


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
Well Butler finally signed his tender. Not really a big deal since the deadline is friday anyways, but we can finally look for a resolution here.


Good news. Personally hope he sticks around and helps us win another SB.
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Yin-Yang


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
Well Butler finally signed his tender. Not really a big deal since the deadline is friday anyways, but we can finally look for a resolution here.


Has there been any indication about exactly how much he's looking for? Only thing I heard was a quote a few months ago where he said he "wasn't asking for the moon".

Unless he took a discount, it'd be hard to justify paying him what he's worth -assuming Gilmore sticks around. The fan in me hopes they find a way to keep him beyond 2017 but that doesn't seem likely at this point.
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