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What should the Pats do with Malcolm Butler?
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: What should the Pats do with Malcolm Butler? Reply with quote

There are basically several options:

1. Sign him to a long-term deal worth roughly market value (using the Gilmore deal as a belwether).

2. Trade him.

3. Match another team's offer sheet (probably ends up costing about what option 1 does).

4. Decline to match another team's offer sheet, take 1st round pick.

5. No one signs Butler to an offer sheet by April 19, and he is not traded. Butler signs his tender or signs long-term deal (option 1).

In all reality, options 1 and 4 are the most favorable. It's unlikely that Butler gets a 1st round pick straight up at this juncture, so the return on option 4 is probably greater than the return of option 2. Likewise, option 1 is preferable to option 3 as it allows the Patriots to dictate the price they want to pay rather than another team.

Butler is a SB hero who has matured into a fairly strong #1 CB. He's aggressive, and sometimes pays for it, but on the whole is reliable. During some stretches last year, he was the team's best corner, and during others, he was the third best. Butler is something of a late bloomer, however, as he is 27 years old. He's also going to command around $15MM annually, which could be a hard pill to swallow for the Patriots: pumping about $30MM over the next five years into two corners.
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bluemushrooms


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get why teams would want to start paying him more even when he still has 1 year to go on his RFA tender.

Tbh I think it's a whole bunch of media hype. Is he pissed that he's producing well beyond what he's getting paid? Yeah, I would be. Is he salty at the Patriots for not paying him more? Doubt it. It's a business contract and everyone knows how they work.

Butler's agent is playing the media to make it sound like Butler is threatening to hold-out until he gets paid. If the Patriots are going to trade him, they were probably planning to do so long before all these stories came out about Butler being unhappy. Otherwise, the Patriots are just going to wait until the season comes around to see if Butler actually holds out or if he plays.

If he holds out, then we have all the leverage in the world because he'll have signed his tender by then (Pats made it clear they aren't doing anything if he doesn't sign his tender). Doubt he's the kind of guy to just sit out on a year of football because he doesn't think he's getting paid enough.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluemushrooms wrote:
I don't get why teams would want to start paying him more even when he still has 1 year to go on his RFA tender.

Tbh I think it's a whole bunch of media hype. Is he pissed that he's producing well beyond what he's getting paid? Yeah, I would be. Is he salty at the Patriots for not paying him more? Doubt it. It's a business contract and everyone knows how they work.

Butler's agent is playing the media to make it sound like Butler is threatening to hold-out until he gets paid. If the Patriots are going to trade him, they were probably planning to do so long before all these stories came out about Butler being unhappy. Otherwise, the Patriots are just going to wait until the season comes around to see if Butler actually holds out or if he plays.

If he holds out, then we have all the leverage in the world because he'll have signed his tender by then (Pats made it clear they aren't doing anything if he doesn't sign his tender). Doubt he's the kind of guy to just sit out on a year of football because he doesn't think he's getting paid enough.


So, in your opinion, which of the options should the Patriots do?
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pats should and will sit on this situation. Malcolm is a nice piece to help secure another SB with all the current pick ups and resigns, or a nice piece securing a round one pick, The Pats are in the drivers seat here and are in no hurry.
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childofpudding


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patriots should, and probably will, just sit tight. If someone signs him and sends a 1st round pick to the Patriots, that's probably fine with them. If Butler signs the tender and plays another season, that's fine too.

It seems like the writing is on the wall that Butler will only be here for one more season, at the most. I wonder what the Patriots offered for an extension last offseason.

It seems crazy that Butler and Ryan might both be gone by next season, but the Patriots already went through something like it recently with Revis and Browner. They'd be a bit thin at CB if Butler is gone this season, but they'd still have Gilmore and Rowe with the hope that Coleman or one of the Jones' can improve and/or take on a larger role.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

childofpudding wrote:
Patriots should, and probably will, just sit tight. If someone signs him and sends a 1st round pick to the Patriots, that's probably fine with them. If Butler signs the tender and plays another season, that's fine too.

It seems like the writing is on the wall that Butler will only be here for one more season, at the most. I wonder what the Patriots offered for an extension last offseason.

It seems crazy that Butler and Ryan might both be gone by next season, but the Patriots already went through something like it recently with Revis and Browner. They'd be a bit thin at CB if Butler is gone this season, but they'd still have Gilmore and Rowe with the hope that Coleman or one of the Jones' can improve and/or take on a larger role.


They would be thin at CB this season, for sure, but if they don't have Butler, they will likely have a first-round pick. The question is then whether that pick would be worth more than a season of Butler.
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bluemushrooms


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
I don't get why teams would want to start paying him more even when he still has 1 year to go on his RFA tender.

Tbh I think it's a whole bunch of media hype. Is he pissed that he's producing well beyond what he's getting paid? Yeah, I would be. Is he salty at the Patriots for not paying him more? Doubt it. It's a business contract and everyone knows how they work.

Butler's agent is playing the media to make it sound like Butler is threatening to hold-out until he gets paid. If the Patriots are going to trade him, they were probably planning to do so long before all these stories came out about Butler being unhappy. Otherwise, the Patriots are just going to wait until the season comes around to see if Butler actually holds out or if he plays.

If he holds out, then we have all the leverage in the world because he'll have signed his tender by then (Pats made it clear they aren't doing anything if he doesn't sign his tender). Doubt he's the kind of guy to just sit out on a year of football because he doesn't think he's getting paid enough.


So, in your opinion, which of the options should the Patriots do?


They don't have to do anything. Just wait for Butler to sign his RFA tender and wait until the season begins to see if Butler is actually going to hold out or not.

If Butler doesn't hold out, then extension talks can begin. If Butler holds out, look around for a team willing to trade for him.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
childofpudding wrote:
Patriots should, and probably will, just sit tight. If someone signs him and sends a 1st round pick to the Patriots, that's probably fine with them. If Butler signs the tender and plays another season, that's fine too.

It seems like the writing is on the wall that Butler will only be here for one more season, at the most. I wonder what the Patriots offered for an extension last offseason.

It seems crazy that Butler and Ryan might both be gone by next season, but the Patriots already went through something like it recently with Revis and Browner. They'd be a bit thin at CB if Butler is gone this season, but they'd still have Gilmore and Rowe with the hope that Coleman or one of the Jones' can improve and/or take on a larger role.


They would be thin at CB this season, for sure, but if they don't have Butler, they will likely have a first-round pick. The question is then whether that pick would be worth more than a season of Butler.


They still have Gilmore and maybe they saw something in Jones. Rowe is still in place, Harmon is back I think they are in okay shape if Butler leaves and if he does I still think they grab and edge rusher.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What they should do is play hardball and see if he can actually get an offer elsewhere. If he does, I imagine he's gone. If he doesn't get an offer, he either refuses to sign his tender or sticks around one more year.

I can't imagine him in New England beyond this year although we've seen the Pats work things out in worse situations. I think the Pats legitimately believe that they don't need him and that his demands are unreasonable. They got that Gilmore deal done really quickly which tells me they gave Gilmore a bunch of the cap space they had earmarked for Butler.

Having two highly paid CB seems unlikely so it's just a matter of when are where Butler goes
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluemushrooms wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
I don't get why teams would want to start paying him more even when he still has 1 year to go on his RFA tender.

Tbh I think it's a whole bunch of media hype. Is he pissed that he's producing well beyond what he's getting paid? Yeah, I would be. Is he salty at the Patriots for not paying him more? Doubt it. It's a business contract and everyone knows how they work.

Butler's agent is playing the media to make it sound like Butler is threatening to hold-out until he gets paid. If the Patriots are going to trade him, they were probably planning to do so long before all these stories came out about Butler being unhappy. Otherwise, the Patriots are just going to wait until the season comes around to see if Butler actually holds out or if he plays.

If he holds out, then we have all the leverage in the world because he'll have signed his tender by then (Pats made it clear they aren't doing anything if he doesn't sign his tender). Doubt he's the kind of guy to just sit out on a year of football because he doesn't think he's getting paid enough.


So, in your opinion, which of the options should the Patriots do?


They don't have to do anything. Just wait for Butler to sign his RFA tender and wait until the season begins to see if Butler is actually going to hold out or not.

If Butler doesn't hold out, then extension talks can begin. If Butler holds out, look around for a team willing to trade for him.


Haha, I know they don't have to do anything. My question is more, if you are NE's front office, do you extend him? Match if he gets an offer? Try to trade him?
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sign him. He's 27, he's the best homegrown CB Belichick has developed since Samuel. And CB play was undoubtedly one of the reasons the Pats were unable to take that crucial last step from 09-13.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
Sign him. He's 27, he's the best homegrown CB Belichick has developed since Samuel. And CB play was undoubtedly one of the reasons the Pats were unable to take that crucial last step from 09-13.


Not worried about having both him and Gilmore on the cap?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Sign him. He's 27, he's the best homegrown CB Belichick has developed since Samuel. And CB play was undoubtedly one of the reasons the Pats were unable to take that crucial last step from 09-13.


Not worried about having both him and Gilmore on the cap?
Depends what other contracts they prioritize over the next year or two. Eventually they'll get Brady off the books. If Garoppolo is the heir, that money will go to him. If not, they'll have a lot of extra space. If they decide to move on from Gronk after this season that'll be another $11 mil per year freed up over the following two years.
Eventually I expect they'll extend or restructure McCourty as well.
Beyond those, Cannon and now Gilmore, they don't really have much money tied up beyond 2018.
I don't know what they intend to do with Solder, but I'm sure they'd like to extend guys like Flowers, Thuney and maybe Mason over the next couple of years. But looking up and down the current roster I don't see too many guys whom I expect them to commit to long-term. Lewis or White, perhaps (but not both). Cooks might price himself out of town. Maybe Mitchell if he builds on his rookie success.

So yeah, I think tying up $27 mil/year in the CB position is doable for this team.
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bluemushrooms


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
I don't get why teams would want to start paying him more even when he still has 1 year to go on his RFA tender.

Tbh I think it's a whole bunch of media hype. Is he pissed that he's producing well beyond what he's getting paid? Yeah, I would be. Is he salty at the Patriots for not paying him more? Doubt it. It's a business contract and everyone knows how they work.

Butler's agent is playing the media to make it sound like Butler is threatening to hold-out until he gets paid. If the Patriots are going to trade him, they were probably planning to do so long before all these stories came out about Butler being unhappy. Otherwise, the Patriots are just going to wait until the season comes around to see if Butler actually holds out or if he plays.

If he holds out, then we have all the leverage in the world because he'll have signed his tender by then (Pats made it clear they aren't doing anything if he doesn't sign his tender). Doubt he's the kind of guy to just sit out on a year of football because he doesn't think he's getting paid enough.


So, in your opinion, which of the options should the Patriots do?


They don't have to do anything. Just wait for Butler to sign his RFA tender and wait until the season begins to see if Butler is actually going to hold out or not.

If Butler doesn't hold out, then extension talks can begin. If Butler holds out, look around for a team willing to trade for him.


Haha, I know they don't have to do anything. My question is more, if you are NE's front office, do you extend him? Match if he gets an offer? Try to trade him?


Oh sorry, your question completely flew over my head Laughing Laughing

As I said before, I'd play chicken with Butler until next season. If he holds out, chances are I don't want him on the team anymore and would look for a trade.

If he doesn't hold out, I would absolutely look to give him an extension. The real question is how valuable do the Patriots think Butler is? He's a super aggressive CB so is a large portion of his success due to how good our Safeties are? Or could he lock down his end of the game and not give up game-changing plays regardless of Safety play?

I get the sense that he can play so aggressively because of how good Harmon and McCourty are. If he goes to another team with a weaker Safety tandem, there are going to be some monster plays that he gives up. He'll also make some big plays as he always has but, some of the mistakes he gets away with right now could be game changing if we didn't have McCourty, Chung, or Harmon in the backfield.

TLDR; extend him but don't pay him as much as Gilmore. Maybe offer him a better GTD to Salary ratio than Gilmore.
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Sign him. He's 27, he's the best homegrown CB Belichick has developed since Samuel. And CB play was undoubtedly one of the reasons the Pats were unable to take that crucial last step from 09-13.


Not worried about having both him and Gilmore on the cap?


I think longterm it's more of an asset and would be more likely to contribute to a championship than devoting those resources elsewhere imo.
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