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What should the Pats do with Malcolm Butler?
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lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now Jeff Howe is reporting that Butler calmed down and wants to stay with the Patriots.

Kinda feel bad for him. He's a good kid. He has an agent way over his head and the team he loves to play for kinda stacked the deck against him and are dangling a potential replacement in his face. I'd love to keep him.
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Tommy5Rings


Joined: 16 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's pretty much as good as gone in my opinion. Super sad honestly, but that's how it goes
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
Well now Jeff Howe is reporting that Butler calmed down and wants to stay with the Patriots.

Kinda feel bad for him. He's a good kid. He has an agent way over his head and the team he loves to play for kinda stacked the deck against him and are dangling a potential replacement in his face. I'd love to keep him.


Where did Howe say that?
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JonMcC2010


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the NFL isn't your normal kind of workplace, but wow.... if you are Malcolm Butler then you are pretty annoyed right now.
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VTPatsFan


Joined: 23 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Well now Jeff Howe is reporting that Butler calmed down and wants to stay with the Patriots.

Kinda feel bad for him. He's a good kid. He has an agent way over his head and the team he loves to play for kinda stacked the deck against him and are dangling a potential replacement in his face. I'd love to keep him.


Where did Howe say that?


https://twitter.com/985TheSportsHub/status/841630082120728577

It's so hard to figure separate the real news from the chaff. One minute he hates the organization, the next he wants to be here forever, now he's got a meeting with the Saints. It's very weird.
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CP3MVP


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butler is a flat out better player than Gilmore. But Gilmore is more physically talented and he's younger and the coaching staff believes they can mold him into the guy.

In a perfect world I would want to have both but I just don't see them paying two corners big money
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CP3MVP wrote:
He went from top ten to not mentioned at all

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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CP3MVP wrote:
Butler is a flat out better player than Gilmore. But Gilmore is more physically talented and he's younger and the coaching staff believes they can mold him into the guy.

In a perfect world I would want to have both but I just don't see them paying two corners big money


Flat out better, why? Gilmore 17 Pass Def 5 INTs Butler 21 Pas Def 4 Ints not sure what's flat out better about that. Do I fell he may be better? Yeah but that may be my inner homer.
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Starless


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
Butler is a flat out better player than Gilmore. But Gilmore is more physically talented and he's younger and the coaching staff believes they can mold him into the guy.

In a perfect world I would want to have both but I just don't see them paying two corners big money


Flat out better, why? Gilmore 17 Pass Def 5 INTs Butler 21 Pas Def 4 Ints not sure what's flat out better about that. Do I fell he may be better? Yeah but that may be my inner homer.
Because those numbers are adequate for judging a CB... Rolling Eyes
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
Butler is a flat out better player than Gilmore. But Gilmore is more physically talented and he's younger and the coaching staff believes they can mold him into the guy.

In a perfect world I would want to have both but I just don't see them paying two corners big money


Flat out better, why? Gilmore 17 Pass Def 5 INTs Butler 21 Pas Def 4 Ints not sure what's flat out better about that. Do I fell he may be better? Yeah but that may be my inner homer.
Because those numbers are adequate for judging a CB... Rolling Eyes


So what numbers apply? His jersey # pretty much passes defended and ints are logical numbers to apply, what else should we use? How many plays off they took, what? Tackles okay sure Butler has more but in the end most of what we pay CBs to do is break up passes or pick off QBs.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Starless wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
Butler is a flat out better player than Gilmore. But Gilmore is more physically talented and he's younger and the coaching staff believes they can mold him into the guy.

In a perfect world I would want to have both but I just don't see them paying two corners big money


Flat out better, why? Gilmore 17 Pass Def 5 INTs Butler 21 Pas Def 4 Ints not sure what's flat out better about that. Do I fell he may be better? Yeah but that may be my inner homer.
Because those numbers are adequate for judging a CB... Rolling Eyes


So what numbers apply? His jersey # pretty much passes defended and ints are logical numbers to apply, what else should we use? How many plays off they took, what? Tackles okay sure Butler has more but in the end most of what we pay CBs to do is break up passes or pick off QBs.


Those are target-specific numbers, so unless the targets are the same, they're misleading. And even if the targets are the same, they don't account for a lot of what makes a cornerback a good player. For instance, if corner 1 jams the receiver off the line and disrupts his route, forcing the QB to go elsewhere, that's an equally effective play as corner 2 swatting away a pass. The numbers do not account for that.

It remains to be seen whether Butler is better in the Patriots' scheme than Gilmore. I mean, I think Butler has been better as a Pat than Gilmore has as a Bill, but until we see Gilmore in Patricia's scheme, it's hard to know what to expect.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Starless wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
Butler is a flat out better player than Gilmore. But Gilmore is more physically talented and he's younger and the coaching staff believes they can mold him into the guy.

In a perfect world I would want to have both but I just don't see them paying two corners big money


Flat out better, why? Gilmore 17 Pass Def 5 INTs Butler 21 Pas Def 4 Ints not sure what's flat out better about that. Do I fell he may be better? Yeah but that may be my inner homer.
Because those numbers are adequate for judging a CB... Rolling Eyes


So what numbers apply? His jersey # pretty much passes defended and ints are logical numbers to apply, what else should we use? How many plays off they took, what? Tackles okay sure Butler has more but in the end most of what we pay CBs to do is break up passes or pick off QBs.


Those are target-specific numbers, so unless the targets are the same, they're misleading. And even if the targets are the same, they don't account for a lot of what makes a cornerback a good player. For instance, if corner 1 jams the receiver off the line and disrupts his route, forcing the QB to go elsewhere, that's an equally effective play as corner 2 swatting away a pass. The numbers do not account for that.

It remains to be seen whether Butler is better in the Patriots' scheme than Gilmore. I mean, I think Butler has been better as a Pat than Gilmore has as a Bill, but until we see Gilmore in Patricia's scheme, it's hard to know what to expect.


I agree but those numbers I sited are numbers used when grading out CBs it's not like I was making them up. My point and you are correct we need to see what Gilmore does in this system I am just unsure if one is leaps and bounds better than the other.
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saintsfan


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Butler does indeed get traded to the Saints then I think the compensation has already been agreed upon. I think the Pats and Saints tried to make this one giant deal but Cooks $800k bonus put time pressure on the trade and Butler hadn't signed his tender yet. In essence I think the Pats and Saints agreed that if Butler decides he wants to go to the Saints, the Saints with send our 2nd/3rd rounder for him. The trade becomes Cooks, 2nd and 4th for Butler, 1st and 3rd.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a question, if Butler hadn't made the SB winning INT would you still view him in the same light? Would you still hold him in the same regard?
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
I got a question, if Butler hadn't made the SB winning INT would you still view him in the same light? Would you still hold him in the same regard?


Yes. He's been easily our best CB the last two seasons, the coaches have been comfortable leaving him on an island with some of the game's best receivers, the play in the Super Bowl has nothing to do with all of that. It's a testament to how hard he works that he hasn't let that one play define his entire career, it very easily could have.
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Dalton


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill be upset w/ anything less than pick 11 for butler. we can afford paying both and should.
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