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What should the Pats do with Malcolm Butler?
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young juice


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1077
Location: Bay Area, CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read different things.

One thing says he wants to stay in New England for his career

and now what was just posted says he feels stung

I think this is all because of an inexperienced agent.
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Dalton


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep both Gilmore and Butler and have a top tier secondary for a long time. Seattle, Denver, and hell, even our 2014 SB team are prime examples of how a top tier secondary can dominate football games.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
Keep both Gilmore and Butler and have a top tier secondary for a long time. Seattle, Denver, and hell, even our 2014 SB team are prime examples of how a top tier secondary can dominate football games.


Doubt they want to tie up that much money in their CB's long term.
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patsfan06


Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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Location: Waltham
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butler's agent seems in over his head.

Best case scenario is someone offers him a reasonable offer sheet, he accepts and wematch.

Second best case scenario is he just plays next year on his tender.

After that you take the 1st and run. I like Butler, I think he is better than Gilmore. But the Pats signed Gilmore. So, I'm out on having two expensive CBs bogging down our cap.
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Starless


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They could franchise him next year. Don't really have anyone else they would tender other than Garoppolo, and unless Brady retires I don't see that happening (and even if Brady does retire I'm sure they'd give him a long-term deal before he hits the market).
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Tommy5Rings


Joined: 16 Feb 2017
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
They could franchise him next year. Don't really have anyone else they would tender other than Garoppolo, and unless Brady retires I don't see that happening (and even if Brady does retire I'm sure they'd give him a long-term deal before he hits the market).


Unless they trade Jimmy, they will 100% keep enough cap space to franchise him next year to buy themselves one more year
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan06 wrote:
Butler's agent seems in over his head.



I'm not sure even the best NFL agent could do anything more for Butler than this agent has done.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy5Rings wrote:
Starless wrote:
They could franchise him next year. Don't really have anyone else they would tender other than Garoppolo, and unless Brady retires I don't see that happening (and even if Brady does retire I'm sure they'd give him a long-term deal before he hits the market).


Unless they trade Jimmy, they will 100% keep enough cap space to franchise him next year to buy themselves one more year


Perhaps. But in that case, I think a tag and trade is more likely than a tag and keep him for 2018 with the franchise amount.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan06 wrote:
Butler's agent seems in over his head.

Best case scenario is someone offers him a reasonable offer sheet, he accepts and wematch.

Second best case scenario is he just plays next year on his tender.

After that you take the 1st and run. I like Butler, I think he is better than Gilmore. But the Pats signed Gilmore. So, I'm out on having two expensive CBs bogging down our cap.


I have no issue with Butler trying to maximize his earnings but his agent is a total moron from what has been reported publicly. I don't think he understands the lack of leverage a RFA has and/or is desperate to cash in on his one big NFL client. This is probably the agent's only chance at a monster payday, so I can understand why he's taking the stance that he is.
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Tommy5Rings


Joined: 16 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Tommy5Rings wrote:
Starless wrote:
They could franchise him next year. Don't really have anyone else they would tender other than Garoppolo, and unless Brady retires I don't see that happening (and even if Brady does retire I'm sure they'd give him a long-term deal before he hits the market).


Unless they trade Jimmy, they will 100% keep enough cap space to franchise him next year to buy themselves one more year


Perhaps. But in that case, I think a tag and trade is more likely than a tag and keep him for 2018 with the franchise amount.


Of course. All really depends on how Tom is playing at that point.

I was just saying - I highly doubt the Pats franchise Butler and handcuff themselves in Jimmy negotiations when he's clearly a more valuable asset either as a trade chip or heir apparent
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bluemushrooms


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 2916
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's visiting the Saints on Thursday.


hmmmm...not sure what he's doing. I don't want to continue the pile-on onto his agent but, I have to think that his agent is behind a lot of this.

If Butler wanted to get traded he'd sign his RFA and then start looking at other teams. I don't understand what he's gaining by not signing his RFA tender.

imo it just seems like Butler's agent is trying to get NE to give him an early contract extension by continuing to put pressure on the organization...despite having no leverage
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumblings are that it may just be a sign-and-trade to New Orleans for pick 32. This would essentially be Cooks for Butler and the Saints move from 118 to 103.
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lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rumblings are that it may just be a sign-and-trade to New Orleans for pick 32. This would essentially be Cooks for Butler and the Saints move from 118 to 103.


Yeah essentially the issue is that without a trade type situation, making an offer to Butler means if the Patriots don't match it in 5 days, the Patriots get the Saints number 11. Which is a crap scenario for the Saint. It basically means they traded cook and flopped the 11 for the 32 to get Butler.

It makes more sense to get Cooks for Butler who is likely gone next year anyways after all this and get their pick back making it almost a straight swap and bringing the Patriots back to the first round. Of course, now that the Patriots have Cook they might be able to sweeten the pot and maybe get the 32 and a 4th or something.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds a lot to me as if a deal was already in place and Butler screwed that up when he refused to sign the tender. I mean no other team is calling as far as we know. All this hinges upon Butler signing the deal. So if he signs the deal and goes to NO the Pats basically got Cooks for one year in the trade? Is that it?
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rumblings are that it may just be a sign-and-trade to New Orleans for pick 32. This would essentially be Cooks for Butler and the Saints move from 118 to 103.


Yeah essentially the issue is that without a trade type situation, making an offer to Butler means if the Patriots don't match it in 5 days, the Patriots get the Saints number 11. Which is a crap scenario for the Saint. It basically means they traded cook and flopped the 11 for the 32 to get Butler.

It makes more sense to get Cooks for Butler who is likely gone next year anyways after all this and get their pick back making it almost a straight swap and bringing the Patriots back to the first round. Of course, now that the Patriots have Cook they might be able to sweeten the pot and maybe get the 32 and a 4th or something.


That's if the Patriots are willing to play ball with the Saints. It makes no sense for Butler to sign his tender until he knows he is guaranteed a trade. He does not care if New Orleans sends 11 or 32. So if New Orleans or another team is
willing to make sign him without New England agreeing to a trade why should he sign it?

Four scenarios 1) New Orleans and Patriots work out a trade, he signs the tender and goes there and gets extension; 2) New Orleans and Parriots can't agree to a trade, NO signs Butler anyway, New England gets the 11th pick; 3) New Orleans and Patriots can't agree on trade and New Orleans will not part with 11; 4) Butler and New Orleans can't work out a contract, so NO never even gets to talking with NE about a trade (because can't trade him without Butler signing tender which he will not do without an extension).
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