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Where to draft Sidney Jones?
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RandomCampBody


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
RandomCampBody wrote:
mse326 wrote:
This is going to hurt him a lot more than an ACL would for instance. Achilles injuries are sill career altering at best and I think I saw a stat a year or two ago that only 1/3 recover enough to even play.

And this is a corner where the achilles is so important. His career really may be over before it has even begun. I wouldn't draft him until the back of the 5th maybe the 6th where you take flyers. Because at this point that is all he is.


Most people come back from Achilles injuries these days, it's not the career threatening injury it used to be a few years ago.


Just because it's better than it used to be doesn't mean it's good. The VAST majority never get close to where the were. It is still very much career threatening or like I said career altering at worst. Players still don't come back from it the way they can now come back from ACL tears.


Who are these vast majority recently though?
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BleedTheClock


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th-5th round. Might be brutal, but this corner class is insanely talented. There are a ton of guys I had ahead of him on my board. The injury timing could not be worse. We don't get to see his rehab, we don't get to see him as a rookie. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, albeit a different kind of player, was getting 1st-2nd round grades before his injury. He went in the 7th round. Sidney Jones has more raw talent than Ifo, but still.

I'd put it this way. I have 1 CB as the pure leader in Marshon Lattimore. In tier 2 of corners, all of which I expect to be stud #2's or good #1's, I have about 15 guys. Sidney Jones is in that tier 2. After the injury, he is out of that tier. Because of there being 15ish guys ahead of him, he'll drop. Maybe in a bad corner class he could be ok, but there are going to be too many awesome CB's on the board to justify a Sidney Jones selection.
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goldfishwars


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question isn't whether or not he's good enough to wait on, it's whether you can get a similar player at the position who is healthy. He'll fall a long way, unfortunately.
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indigo_rex


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sidney Jones had a rough Combine - shorter arms than expected, light (expected), poor performance in agility drills, unremarkable in the jumps. So, I had him falling a little before the injury. 4th/5th range sounds right to me. Of the CB's with 1st and 2nd RD grades, no one posted a worse 3-cone, and only Tre'Davious White and Cordrea Tankersley posted worse 20-YS times. Only Howard Wilson (some people have him in the 2nd) weighed in lighter; Adoree Jackson weighed in the same.

I like many aspects of his game. He's tough, has good instincts and ball skills, and his ability to force fumbles is underrated, but due to his physique and athleticism, he carried a number of concerns before the injury.
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BleedTheClock


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His backpedal is so weird to me. Obviously it was part of Washington's scheme defensively, but he turns towards the sidelines and does a "man turn" when it's clearly zone coverage. Just strange, but I guess it worked. I think he's going to struggle to stick to guys in the NFL. He looks best suited in off coverage. I didn't see him press all that often at Washington, nor did I see him play a lot of straight up man. He is pretty physical against the run and is a good tackler, but I didn't see him diagnose all that well. He bails from his backpedal too soon and appears to not trust his speed, which I think is adequate at worst.

Tough prospect to grade and the injury only makes him more uncertain. I wish I liked him more, but in this freakishly good CB class, it's hard to pound the table for this guy in my opinion.
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Jeezla


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he falls to the Eagles in round 3. OK not necessarily to the Eagles, but I think some team will take him in round 3, assuming team doctors believe he can come back at 100% in a year.
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CalhounLambeau


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, albeit a different kind of player, was getting 1st-2nd round grades before his injury. He went in the 7th round. Sidney Jones has more raw talent than Ifo, but still.

What does Ifo Ekpre-Olomu have to do with anything? He had a completely different injury.
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BleedTheClock


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalhounLambeau wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, albeit a different kind of player, was getting 1st-2nd round grades before his injury. He went in the 7th round. Sidney Jones has more raw talent than Ifo, but still.

What does Ifo Ekpre-Olomu have to do with anything? He had a completely different injury.



ummm for real? They were both injured cornerbacks that were set to miss a significant portion of time. Both highly touted prospects. And a "completely different injury" doesn't matter. They were both "serious injuries."
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
CalhounLambeau wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, albeit a different kind of player, was getting 1st-2nd round grades before his injury. He went in the 7th round. Sidney Jones has more raw talent than Ifo, but still.

What does Ifo Ekpre-Olomu have to do with anything? He had a completely different injury.



ummm for real? They were both injured cornerbacks that were set to miss a significant portion of time. Both highly touted prospects. And a "completely different injury" doesn't matter. They were both "serious injuries."


He dislocated his knee. That means 3 ligament tears in his knee. Also a ACL tear along with it. It kills you mobility. A lot more serious injury than a achilles tear. Threatens a more severe injury. Usually when this happens there is a chance at having to amputate the lower leg if the blood vessel tears along with it.

Same injury Teddy had, now it's an unknown if he will ever play football again. Big difference from CB to QB also. With a limited mobility from there on out it would be pretty tough to recover and continue to play at a high level.
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unfsaint


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art_Vandalay wrote:
Dallas picked Jaylon Smith early 2nd despite him having a much more catastrophic injury. Smith was a better prospect though. I'd expect Jones to get taken late 2nd, early 3rd.


Smith was a much better ptospect. Smith has the drive and character to miss a year of football and still not have problems. I don't know a ton about Jones character. I think a question you have to ask is where you'd draft him if he was 85% of the player he was pre-injury. To me...that's a mid-round pick. I still think Smith can be a great LB at 85% of his former self.
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CalhounLambeau


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
CalhounLambeau wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, albeit a different kind of player, was getting 1st-2nd round grades before his injury. He went in the 7th round. Sidney Jones has more raw talent than Ifo, but still.

What does Ifo Ekpre-Olomu have to do with anything? He had a completely different injury.

ummm for real? They were both injured cornerbacks that were set to miss a significant portion of time. Both highly touted prospects. And a "completely different injury" doesn't matter. They were both "serious injuries."

Yes, it actually matters when one injury is much more severe than another.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandomCampBody wrote:
mse326 wrote:
RandomCampBody wrote:
mse326 wrote:
This is going to hurt him a lot more than an ACL would for instance. Achilles injuries are sill career altering at best and I think I saw a stat a year or two ago that only 1/3 recover enough to even play.

And this is a corner where the achilles is so important. His career really may be over before it has even begun. I wouldn't draft him until the back of the 5th maybe the 6th where you take flyers. Because at this point that is all he is.


Most people come back from Achilles injuries these days, it's not the career threatening injury it used to be a few years ago.


Just because it's better than it used to be doesn't mean it's good. The VAST majority never get close to where the were. It is still very much career threatening or like I said career altering at worst. Players still don't come back from it the way they can now come back from ACL tears.


Who are these vast majority recently though?


I know Terrell Suggs came back from the injury.

Wes Mathews had the same injury.

I think we'd be really naive to say his career is in danger. As for where I'd take him, I'd say 3rd or 4th round. He's definitely gonna slide. And he's an a very young player as well which should work in his favour.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
CalhounLambeau wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, albeit a different kind of player, was getting 1st-2nd round grades before his injury. He went in the 7th round. Sidney Jones has more raw talent than Ifo, but still.

What does Ifo Ekpre-Olomu have to do with anything? He had a completely different injury.



ummm for real? They were both injured cornerbacks that were set to miss a significant portion of time. Both highly touted prospects. And a "completely different injury" doesn't matter. They were both "serious injuries."


What do you mean "ummm for real?" Ifo suffered a career ending injury. It was a Marcus Lattimore esque knee injury.

Jack Ikegwuonu suffered a significant knee injury and still went 4th round.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art_Vandalay wrote:
Dallas picked Jaylon Smith early 2nd despite him having a much more catastrophic injury. Smith was a better prospect though. I'd expect Jones to get taken late 2nd, early 3rd.


I'd argue that Jaylon Smith was the exception to this situation, not the rule. Also, Jaylon Smith was considered a top-10 prospect prior to the injury. Not sure Sidney Jones ever got that same hype. That being said, I believe that injuries like this have historically seen players fall towards the end of the 4th round, which sounds about right.
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G


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Raider fan, this is how Jones's injury affected where I'd take him.
Before the injury he would have been between Humphrey and Peppers.
From 5 to 17 because the others I expect to contribute this season in nickel/dime packages.

Marshon Lattimore CB Ohio State 6-0 193 4.36
Jamal Adams SS LSU 6-0 214 4.56
Malik Hooker FS Ohio State 6-1 206 4.47
Marlon Humphrey CB Alabama 6-0 197 4.41
Jabrill Peppers SS Michigan 5-11 213 4.46
Quincy Wilson CB Florida 6-1 211 4.54
Teez Tabor CB Florida 6-0 199 4.62
Gareon Conley CB Ohio State 6-0 195 4.44
Obi Melifonwu SS Connecticut 6-4 224 4.40
TreDavious White CB LSU 5-11 192 4.47
Cordrea Tankersley CB Clemson 6-1 199 4.40
Adoree Jackson CB Southern California 5-10 186 4.42
Desmond King CB Iowa 5-10 201 4.53
Budda Baker FS Washington 5-10 195 4.45
Jourdan Lewis CB Michigan 5-10 188 4.54
Cameron Sutton CB Tennessee 5-11 188 4.52
Sidney Jones CB Washington 6-0 186 4.47
Eddie Jackson SS Alabama 6-0 201 4.53
Marcus Williams FS Utah 6-1 202 4.56
Chidobe Awuzie CB Colorado 6-0 202 4.43
Ahkello Witherspoon CB Colorado 6-3 198 4.45
Kevin King CB Washington 6-3 200 4.43
Rasul Douglas CB West Virginia 6-2 209 4.59
Fabian Moreau CB UCLA 6-0 206 4.35
Justin Evans SS Texas AM 6-0 199 4.47
Damontae Kazee CB San Diego State 5-10 184 4.54
Jeremy Clark CB Michigan 6-3 220 4.59

The rest I expect to need to develop a bit to fit the system.
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