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2017 offensive line?
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3530
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
I always agree with overall BPA philosophy. I would point out if we think an interior OL is true BPA we shouldn't pass. I'm specifically referring to Forrest Lamp as a Pro Bowl ceiling G. Like DeCastro / Zach Martin Rd 1 value.

Before ppl point out we took Leary consider this:

1. Schofield is a UFA after this year he's great to have cheap but not someone to invest FA $ at.
2. Garcia & McGovern are no locks to success at G. We hope so but we don't know at all.
3. Leary should be a fixture but reality is our 4-year deal is a 2-year deal. O guaranteed $ and only 1.75m in dead money after 2018 (signing bonus money left over last 2 years). At his age/mileage banking on 2017-18 only is very smart.
4. Lamp has played T so RT an option.

Again I'm not advocating reaching. But I have Lamp at 14-15 ahead of McCaffrey. I'm not saying Elway will have it the same way but more if BPA is an interior OL it wouldn't surprise me.


You can never have too many bodies for the battle in the trenches - always try to improve and the best way is through the draft.

Unfortunately the drafting of OL by Elway has been less than stellar - hopefully the shift to a power scheme and the new coaching staff will make it more hit than miss.


Yeah, we covered how much Elway's struggled not just with OL but specifically in Rd 2-3 throughout his entire draft career in the Romo thread - it was eye opening to take a full count. With 4 picks in the top 100 of a really deep draft class it's crucial Elway gets at least 3 2018+ starter-level talents from this draft. Missing Rd 2-3 has made us reliant on back end draft gems / UDFA and bargain FA. Right up until 2015 Elway hit enough on those we minimized the impact. The problem is that bargain FA are usually by their nature a 1-year or if lucky a 2-year bargain because they only sign cheap 1-2 year deals. So Elway has to keep hitting. Whereas hitting on the draft (esp early rounds as they are usually closer to helping) gives you 3-4 bargain years - and Elway doesn't need to hit every offseason to fill key holes like 2916 and this offseason. That difference eventually catches up, and last year when Elway whiffed in value FA we saw the roster holes translate to major team weaknesses.

It's not Elway's fault he missed in the value FA tier last offseason - his success rate at finding difference makers in the value UFA tier is still really high, league-elite. But once they stop coming the butcher's bill is ugly. And value finds are usually in positions where excess supply is present - as trench warfare is once again the darling of FA spending, really hard to get value there anymore. It's the Rd 2-3 complete whiffs that put him in a "must strike gold" position in FA. Elway stops whiffing on Rd 2-3 we won't have as many all-or-none situations at LT or DE this year.

This is a huge draft year given the above. I hope the power scheme identity leads to greater success too. It's a hopeful sign that Elway is identifying power fits specifically - even if it meant passing on one if the few value LT signings (Beachum). Passing on him to get better power fits at least tells me he's committing to a clear direction in OL philosophy instead of the failed "tweener" guys that Dennison & co. thought they could coach up in the ZBS.

EDIT: Ugh @ posting from phone @ airport. Damn you spellcheck autocorrect!
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Last edited by Broncofan on Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:46 pm; edited 5 times in total
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
I have to think Menelik gets a shot to compete at Left Tackle. His body type is more LT than RT, thinking back to when he was in the draft they said future LT but needs a few years to learn the game properly, now the proof is gonna be in the pudding.

I kinda love how the Raiders spent a second round pick and developed him for us.



If a top OL prospect is available in the draft, he probably won't get that chance. Yes Watson's body type and athleticism project well to the left side, but so far in his career he's done little to earn that opportunity, and has been a replacement level, oft injured talent.

I still like that signing a lot for the same reasons you do, but I'm not going to get ahead of myself. Our best line wouldn't include Watson at left tackle, imo.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
I have to think Menelik gets a shot to compete at Left Tackle. His body type is more LT than RT, thinking back to when he was in the draft they said future LT but needs a few years to learn the game properly, now the proof is gonna be in the pudding.

I kinda love how the Raiders spent a second round pick and developed him for us.



If a top OL prospect is available in the draft, he probably won't get that chance. Yes Watson's body type and athleticism project well to the left side, but so far in his career he's done little to earn that opportunity, and has been a replacement level, oft injured talent.

I still like that signing a lot for the same reasons you do, but I'm not going to get ahead of myself. Our best line wouldn't include Watson at left tackle, imo.


I agree. Watson could probably play around average level at LT, but I don't know that he'd be an improvement over Okung. At RT, though, he could be a good starter if healthy and be a massive upgrade over last years RT play.

Not that drafting a LT is a bad thing and we've seen rookies really excel, but I'm starting to think the ceiling for next year at that position is Okung type production.

Elway blundered in not getting in on Whitworth, IMO.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry I just really think people over value Elway on this forum we think he always nails free agents but he always looked at guys replacing needs in free agency and projected the best fill in for the job hoping it sticks.

You look at Talib Elway was willing to throw a big contract for Cromartie but Cromartie over played his hands after a tremendous season so Elway signs Talib. It's almost a luck signing rather than just elway being a genius. You look at Ware we were looking for a opposite edge rusher across from miller and Ware was the best option on the market again luck more than skill. You look at Stewart safety was a need and Stewart was gotten on the cheap. Kubiak was banging on the table for him Elway signs him and it worked out after losing Raheem Moore it was a necessary signing I can argue more luck and less genuis.

The last one was Emanuel Sanders who I can argue really only signed because of Peyton on a cheap 3 year 9 mill deal. We needed a replacement for decker Sanders was a great option for a fraction of the price again without Peyton that doesn't happen we got lucky.


I see no where in these free agency processes that make Elway a genius over being lucky.

If we signed a nose tackle like a logan or poe Id say Elway is working his magic because they'd wanna play next to miller but that's not the case.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: 2017 offensive line? Reply with quote

bobdevine wrote:
With the signing of free-agents Ronald Leary and Menelik Watson, what will the o-line look like?

One possibility:
LT: Donald Stephenson
LG: Ronald Leary
C: Matt Paradis
RG: Michael Schofield
RT: Menelik Watson

Backups are Garcia and McGovern (OG spots) and Ty Sambrailo (both OT spots).

Looking at this line-up makes me raise the odds of drafting an OL in the first round...

(EDIT: name change)



I don't think this will be the OL we will see at the beginning of the season. And, you are a dork!!! Is that an offensive line?
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jolly red giant


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:


I see no where in these free agency processes that make Elway a genius over being lucky.

Elway is far from infallible (hiring Joseph with a dodgy background is an example).

Like every other GM in the NFL he has to balance coaches with players with salary cap with free agency with the draft etc etc. Some are better at it than others.

You suggest that Sanders came because of Manning - but Elway had to get Manning in the door in the first place.

You say that Elway has been lucky - every GM needs luck and sometimes you have to create your own luck. Elway got very lucky when the Texans threw a big contract at Osweiler.

At the end of the day you can only judge Elway by what he has done in comparison to other GMs. He took a team at the bottom of a crater thanks to McD and rebuilt it - he won a SB and he is keeping the team competitive. He will have hits and misses - but so far he has been one of the better GMs around.

His reputation into the future will be built on whether Joseph is a hit or a miss - and if Joseph ends up as an incompetent rookie then Elway could end up carrying the can and find himself in retirement.

(I am actually intrigued to see what kind of a job Lynch does in SF - and I would be surprised to see him as Elway's replacement when that happens - if he proves he can do the job).
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:


I see no where in these free agency processes that make Elway a genius over being lucky.

Elway is far from infallible (hiring Joseph with a dodgy background is an example).

Like every other GM in the NFL he has to balance coaches with players with salary cap with free agency with the draft etc etc. Some are better at it than others.

You suggest that Sanders came because of Manning - but Elway had to get Manning in the door in the first place.

You say that Elway has been lucky - every GM needs luck and sometimes you have to create your own luck. Elway got very lucky when the Texans threw a big contract at Osweiler.

At the end of the day you can only judge Elway by what he has done in comparison to other GMs. He took a team at the bottom of a crater thanks to McD and rebuilt it - he won a SB and he is keeping the team competitive. He will have hits and misses - but so far he has been one of the better GMs around.

His reputation into the future will be built on whether Joseph is a hit or a miss - and if Joseph ends up as an incompetent rookie then Elway could end up carrying the can and find himself in retirement.

(I am actually intrigued to see what kind of a job Lynch does in SF - and I would be surprised to see him as Elway's replacement when that happens - if he proves he can do the job).



No Elways future will hinge most importantly whether or not he can draft a franchise qb. Brock wasn't one. And we dont know about Siemian or Lynch.

Unless Vance Joseph is the next Josh McDaniels
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/troyrenck/status/842039650004959232

Renck just giving his take that LT not yet on roster but does confirm Elway taking a look at Dunlap.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No Elways future will hinge most importantly whether or not he can draft a franchise qb. Brock wasn't one. And we dont know about Siemian or Lynch.


Ya, but you cant act like he has had the draft capital to secure a top flight QB. Those guys almost always go top 3. We have been far too good to get a pick that high.

His overall legacy on GM will depend on Siemian, Lynch, or a guy drafted within the next 2 (maybe give him 3) years to develop into a top 10-12 QB.

The idea that we are going to have a top 5 QB anytime soon is pretty pie-in-the-sky.
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7DnBrnc53


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
https://twitter.com/troyrenck/status/842039650004959232

Renck just giving his take that LT not yet on roster but does confirm Elway taking a look at Dunlap.


I heard on Reddit that the Broncos were looking at other LT's. I hope that a Latimer for Veldheer trade can take place at some point.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
https://twitter.com/troyrenck/status/842039650004959232

Renck just giving his take that LT not yet on roster but does confirm Elway taking a look at Dunlap.


I heard on Reddit that the Broncos were looking at other LT's. I hope that a Latimer for Veldheer trade can take place at some point.


I'd love that but I think the Ari GM would get fired for that deal if that's all we gave. 😮

Dunlap a better swing T but I am happy if we get a T plus Dunlap cheap too much injury risk with both Watson and Dunlap to be our top 2 guys
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
No Elways future will hinge most importantly whether or not he can draft a franchise qb. Brock wasn't one. And we dont know about Siemian or Lynch.


Ya, but you cant act like he has had the draft capital to secure a top flight QB. Those guys almost always go top 3. We have been far too good to get a pick that high.

His overall legacy on GM will depend on Siemian, Lynch, or a guy drafted within the next 2 (maybe give him 3) years to develop into a top 10-12 QB.

The idea that we are going to have a top 5 QB anytime soon is pretty pie-in-the-sky.



Listen, I like Elway ge brought this team a superbowl. I think me as well as members of this forum began to think he had all it takes to make this team a dynasty and given his moves the past year I'm doubting that.

Also, hes had shots at franchicse qbs. Last time I checked he had a shot to take Carr, Wilson, Cousins, Prescott.

Now the jury is still out on Lynch he looked phenomenal in the tampa game we'll see. It's disheartening that when Lynch had that momentum from the Tampa game the nezt week Sambrillo is given the task to protect his blind side.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would mind the Broncos signing Dunlap and trading for Joe Thomas, or Valdheer.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/03/broncos-interested-in-king-dunlap
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Denver should go after Dunlap, roll with a competition between a few guys at LT, and then draft someone in Round 2 or 3 with upside. I like Dion Dawkins on the line, I think Antonio Garcia is a nice developmental pick for us too.
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jolly red giant


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This should inspire some confidence

Vance Joseph talking about Donald Stephenson
Quote:
He helps because he is an athletic guy who has played some left tackle in the past. Maybe in a new system and maybe a new coach, he can go out at left and play for us. No one knows yet...Hes a guy that when you watch his tape, he does flash great ability. That is at left tackle. That is the basketball footwork type of guy. Hes got those skills to play left tackle.


http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/14/vance-joseph-broncos-left-tackle-hole/
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